Testing a Biblical Objection to Purgatory

[Michie]

Where’s purgatory in the Bible? Protestants ask this all the time.​

“Where’s purgatory in the Bible?” Protestants ask this all the time.

Any Catholic who is familiar with apologetics knows to answer with 1 Corinthians 3:11-15:

For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any one builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw— each man’s work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.

Paul is talking about the Day of Judgment, which comes after death (see Hebrews 9:27). And in light of the “fire” that tests the quality of a person’s works, Catholics argue that the person is being purified. Fire is used metaphorically in Scripture as a purifying agent—in Matthew 3:2-3,11 and Mark 9:49—and as that which consumes: Matthew 3:12; 2 Thessalonians 1:7-8). This state of existence can’t be heaven because the individual has the defilement of bad works and is suffering loss. Nor can it be hell because Paul says the person “will be saved.” A state of purification in the afterlife that is neither heaven nor hell—that’s purgatory!

But for Protestants it’s not so clear. They offer a few reasons why they think this doesn’t refer to purgatory.

One is that Paul says these things will only happen at the Final Judgment—“for the Day will disclose it” (v.13; emphasis added). For this text to support the Catholic doctrine of purgatory, so the argument goes, it would need to speak of an intermediate judgment before the Second Coming. Since it doesn’t, a Catholic can’t use it to support purgatory.

What should we make of this Protestant counter? Is it a precious stone that would survive the fire of scrutiny? Or is it more like straw? Let’s test it and find out.

Continued below.

Testing a Biblical Objection to Purgatory

Where’s purgatory in the Bible? Protestants ask this all the time. Any Catholic who is familiar with the topic knows to answer with this verse.

www.catholic.com

 

[AlexB23]

Where’s purgatory in the Bible? Protestants ask this all the time.​

“Where’s purgatory in the Bible?” Protestants ask this all the time.

Any Catholic who is familiar with apologetics knows to answer with 1 Corinthians 3:11-15:


Paul is talking about the Day of Judgment, which comes after death (see Hebrews 9:27). And in light of the “fire” that tests the quality of a person’s works, Catholics argue that the person is being purified. Fire is used metaphorically in Scripture as a purifying agent—in Matthew 3:2-3,11 and Mark 9:49—and as that which consumes: Matthew 3:12; 2 Thessalonians 1:7-8). This state of existence can’t be heaven because the individual has the defilement of bad works and is suffering loss. Nor can it be hell because Paul says the person “will be saved.” A state of purification in the afterlife that is neither heaven nor hell—that’s purgatory!

But for Protestants it’s not so clear. They offer a few reasons why they think this doesn’t refer to purgatory.

One is that Paul says these things will only happen at the Final Judgment—“for the Day will disclose it” (v.13; emphasis added). For this text to support the Catholic doctrine of purgatory, so the argument goes, it would need to speak of an intermediate judgment before the Second Coming. Since it doesn’t, a Catholic can’t use it to support purgatory.

What should we make of this Protestant counter? Is it a precious stone that would survive the fire of scrutiny? Or is it more like straw? Let’s test it and find out.

Continued below.

Testing a Biblical Objection to Purgatory

Where’s purgatory in the Bible? Protestants ask this all the time. Any Catholic who is familiar with the topic knows to answer with this verse.

www.catholic.com

Well, it does not really matter the mechanics of purgatory. All that matters is that we believe in Jesus as our Savior, follow Jesus, and try to stick to His ways.

 

[RileyG]

Well, it does not really matter the mechanics of purgatory. All that matters is that we believe in Jesus as our Savior, follow Jesus, and try to stick to His ways.

Purgatory is real and prayers for the dead is part of the Jewish tradition and all of the apostolic Churches (although Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, and the Assyrian Church of the East all reject Purgatory).

Also consider 2 Maccabees 12:43-46:

"And making a gathering, he sent twelve thousand drachms of silver to Jerusalem for sacrifice to be offered for the sins of the dead, thinking well and religiously concerning the resurrection,

(For if he had not hoped that they that were slain should rise again, it would have seemed superfluous and vain to pray for the dead,)

And because he considered that they who had fallen asleep with godliness, had great grace laid up for them.

It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins."

Blessings

 

[AlexB23]

Purgatory is real and prayers for the dead is part of the Jewish tradition and all of the apostolic Churches (although Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, and the Assyrian Church of the East all reject Purgatory).

Also consider 2 Maccabees 12:43-46:

"And making a gathering, he sent twelve thousand drachms of silver to Jerusalem for sacrifice to be offered for the sins of the dead, thinking well and religiously concerning the resurrection,

(For if he had not hoped that they that were slain should rise again, it would have seemed superfluous and vain to pray for the dead,)

And because he considered that they who had fallen asleep with godliness, had great grace laid up for them.

It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins."

Blessings

Interesting.

 

[RileyG]

Interesting.

Prayers for the dead has always been part of the Christian tradition. It wasn't until the Protestant reformation when it was questioned, and the idea of soul sleep or Once saved, always saved, (imputed righteousness) came into play in their theological circles.

 

[AlexB23]

Prayers for the dead has always been part of the Christian tradition. It wasn't until the Protestant reformation when it was questioned, and the idea of soul sleep or Once saved, always saved, (imputed righteousness) came into play in their theological circles.

OSAS is a toxic belief. I prayed for the dead, even as a Protestant before 2022, and do so even more as a Catholic.

 

[Lady Bug]

Even without Bible references known to me at the time, I found it obnoxious and objectionable that smug self-professed Christians whose own sins they forgot about would go to heaven just like that without Jesus kicking their azz a bit before they're allowed into heaven. It's why I always felt miserable in Evangelical Christianity.
I realized that purgatory helped fill in that blank.

 

[RileyG]

OSAS is a toxic belief. I prayed for the dead, even as a Protestant before 2022, and do so even more as a Catholic.

Wonderful! Keep praying! God is faithful and will hear our prayers!

 

[AlexB23]

Wonderful! Keep praying! God is faithful and will hear our prayers!

Amen to that. 2024 has been a year of prayer and learning about scripture for me, and I hope every year will be like this. God has a plan for each and every one of us.

 

[RileyG]

Amen to that. 2024 has been a year of prayer and learning about scripture for me, and I hope every year will be like this. God has a plan for each and every one of us.

Wonderful! I'm happy to hear that!

Keep praying for the souls in purgatory- they need it.

I especially recommend the prayer of St. Gertrude.

 

[AlexB23]

Wonderful! I'm happy to hear that!

Keep praying for the souls in purgatory- they need it.

I especially recommend the prayer of St. Gertrude.

Amen to that. Am not familiar with that prayer.

 

[Michie]

Even without Bible references known to me at the time, I found it obnoxious and objectionable that smug self-professed Christians whose own sins they forgot about would go to heaven just like that without Jesus kicking their azz a bit before they're allowed into heaven. It's why I always felt miserable in Evangelical Christianity.
I realized that purgatory helped fill in that blank.

So true.

 

[Chesster]

Amen to that. Am not familiar with that prayer.

The Prayer of St. Gertrude
Eternal Father, I offer Thee the Most Precious Blood of Thy Divine Son, Jesus, in union with the masses said throughout the world today, for all the holy souls in purgatory, for sinners everywhere, for sinners in the universal church, those in my own home and within my family. Amen.

 

[AlexB23]

The Prayer of St. Gertrude
Eternal Father, I offer Thee the Most Precious Blood of Thy Divine Son, Jesus, in union with the masses said throughout the world today, for all the holy souls in purgatory, for sinners everywhere, for sinners in the universal church, those in my own home and within my family. Amen.

Amen, in the name of the Father, Son & Holy Spirit.

Sign of the cross

 

[WarriorAngel]

Where’s purgatory in the Bible? Protestants ask this all the time.​

“Where’s purgatory in the Bible?” Protestants ask this all the time.

Any Catholic who is familiar with apologetics knows to answer with 1 Corinthians 3:11-15:


Paul is talking about the Day of Judgment, which comes after death (see Hebrews 9:27). And in light of the “fire” that tests the quality of a person’s works, Catholics argue that the person is being purified. Fire is used metaphorically in Scripture as a purifying agent—in Matthew 3:2-3,11 and Mark 9:49—and as that which consumes: Matthew 3:12; 2 Thessalonians 1:7-8). This state of existence can’t be heaven because the individual has the defilement of bad works and is suffering loss. Nor can it be hell because Paul says the person “will be saved.” A state of purification in the afterlife that is neither heaven nor hell—that’s purgatory!

But for Protestants it’s not so clear. They offer a few reasons why they think this doesn’t refer to purgatory.

One is that Paul says these things will only happen at the Final Judgment—“for the Day will disclose it” (v.13; emphasis added). For this text to support the Catholic doctrine of purgatory, so the argument goes, it would need to speak of an intermediate judgment before the Second Coming. Since it doesn’t, a Catholic can’t use it to support purgatory.

What should we make of this Protestant counter? Is it a precious stone that would survive the fire of scrutiny? Or is it more like straw? Let’s test it and find out.

Continued below.

Testing a Biblical Objection to Purgatory

Where’s purgatory in the Bible? Protestants ask this all the time. Any Catholic who is familiar with the topic knows to answer with this verse.

www.catholic.com

Paul also petitioned prayer for his faithful friend.
Paul Prayed for Onesiphorus, Who Was Deceased from earth. “May the Lord grant Onesiphorus to find mercy from the Lord on that Day.”

Odd thing to do, pray for him, if he was a good man and faithful and passed away if as Protestants allege, we should automatically go to Heaven. Yet Paul who wrote the scripture above aforementioned original post, regarding going through fire also speaks of prayer for his friend for THAT day.

I think Paul was wise enough to understand 'that day' is outside of time on earth. For his friend already passed.

There are many things eluding to purgatory.
The term itself was coined by the Church but though the Jews prayed for the dead, the best they understood was ghosts, still unknown what was a waiting soul.. and still ghosts exist today.

If anyone reads Wisdom 2 they would understand the Jews were clueless what the next life was about [insert scriptures - see we die and we are forgotten etc...] outside of which is David suggesting they shall soul sleep til the Savior.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Interesting thing I think most scholars, even Jews, overlook how Elijah being good enough to ascend to Heaven - was taken in a chariot of fire.
All his earthly flesh burnt off. Of which is original sin, the very thing that came due to the temptation and fall [impurity] and on earth everything has that in it. Without desired fault, on earth impurity reigns because the separation with exception of what the Lord deemed untouched and impregnable of the original sin.

 

[Michie]

Interesting thing I think most scholars, even Jews, overlook how Elijah being good enough to ascend to Heaven - was taken in a chariot of fire.
All his earthly flesh burnt off. Of which is original sin, the very thing that came due to the temptation and fall [impurity] and on earth everything has that in it. Without desired fault, on earth impurity reigns because the separation with exception of what the Lord deemed untouched and impregnable of the original sin.

Wow! That’s interesting WA. I have never heard of it being described that way in relation to purgatory. I hope more people comment on this as well.

 

[RileyG]

Amen, in the name of the Father, Son & Holy Spirit.

Sign of the cross
View attachment 348815

It releases 1000 souls from purgatory every time it is said devoutly.

Keep in mind 59 million people die yearly.

Very, very few get any prayers.

Most souls in purgatory are entirely abandoned.

 

[AlexB23]

It releases 1000 souls from purgatory every time it is said devoutly.

Keep in mind 59 million people die yearly.

Very, very few get any prayers.

Most souls in purgatory are entirely abandoned.

That is sad. Hopefully purgatory ended when Jesus evacuated Abraham's Bosom between his death and resurrection. I am Catholic, but have a hard time believing in purgatory. Eventually, when I study the Bible more, I might understand it, but at my current Biblical knowledge, I do not understand it yet.

 

[RileyG]

That is sad. Hopefully purgatory ended when Jesus evacuated Abraham's Bosom between his death and resurrection. I am Catholic, but have a hard time believing in purgatory. Eventually, when I study the Bible more, I might understand it, but at my current Biblical knowledge, I do not understand it yet.

Purgatory still exists.

It is final purification before entering heaven.

Pray for the dead- they need it.

It’s nothing to be scared of- it’s only painful because you aren’t fully united to God, yet.