Testimony of others

[alexiscurious]

"Let me tell you about all these historical documents and events that prove the validity of the Bible and how the world was intelligently designed. There is too much evidence not to believe in God."

"Most of the events and stories in the Bible were made up and could not have possibly occurred. Some of the Bible's stories are very similar to other texts. The Bible is unreliable."

I am constantly bombarded with opposing views about the Bible. How can I find a belief in God without having to rely solely on the testimony of others? Or is that the only thing keeping the belief in God alive?

 

[gord44]

I find belief in God just by simple observation of the universe and nature.

Testimony of others does nothing for me as I assume most people are exaggerating or lying. They may not be, but the human mind is tricksy.

 

[alexiscurious]

I find belief in God just by simple observation of the universe and nature.

Testimony of others does nothing for me as I assume most people are exaggerating or lying. They may not be, but the human mind is tricksy.

By using the observation of the universe and nature, how did you figure out which god to believe in? Multiple gods make claims to creating the universe.

 

[gord44]

By using the observation of the universe and nature, how did you figure out which god to believe in? Multiple gods make claims to creating the universe.

i don't worry about it. i leave religion out of the equation. I find it easier to believe in a God then not to believe. The specifics of God I am not sure about. I have some general ideas, but I am not dogmatic about it.

 

[TheyCallMeDavid]

"Let me tell you about all these historical documents and events that prove the validity of the Bible and how the world was intelligently designed. There is too much evidence not to believe in God."

"Most of the events and stories in the Bible were made up and could not have possibly occurred. Some of the Bible's stories are very similar to other texts. The Bible is unreliable."

I am constantly bombarded with opposing views about the Bible. How can I find a belief in God without having to rely solely on the testimony of others? Or is that the only thing keeping the belief in God alive?

Proving Gods existence as a loving personal theistic Creator/Designer/Sustainer..is actually quite easy and it doesn't even require opening the Bible. Just from what modern Science provides us with as far as evidence goes ,is ample proof . Heres a little writeup I did some time ago and it lists the major evidences for God which any reasonable , rational, and logical Person would and should accept and if they don't , then its not for lack of scientific evidence as is the popular excuse :
__________________________________________________________
As an evidential Christian Apologist I choose to base my reason and rationale on detectable design and engineering by way of what we DO have as a reality , such as these following determined facts and if it looks like intelligent design (something that can only come from a willful mind and abilities to provide it and sustain it) was responsible . Following is the evidence both Theists and Atheists have :

1. A universe that exploded into being from nothing .
2. A Universe with over 150 fine tuned , life enabling constants for this tiny, remote planet called Earth which is incredibly suitable for our sustenance in addition to many Physics Constants all working in delicate unison ...some to the 120th decimal point critical tolerance otherwise we arent here.
3. Life that has been observed to arise only from existing life and which has never been observed to arise spontaneously (to which even world reknown atheist Biologists calculate having occured at a faith busting 1 in 10^40,000 probability). LIfe that consists of thousands and even millions of volumes of empirically detectable specified complexity and is therefore, more than just the nonliving chemicals it contains. Life that changes cyclically and only within a limited range. Life which cannot be built or modified gradually (ie: irreducible complexity) . Life that is molecularly isolated between basic types (theres no ancestoral progression at the molecular level). And life that leaves a fossil record of fully formed creatures that appear suddenly, do not change, and then disappear suddenly.

A. There are MANY anthropics (fine tuned Constants) to our universe must all work in perfect collaboration with one another to incredibly close tolerances (some to a 120th decimal point maximum allowable deviation otherwise Earth isn't here and neither are we) : Reasons To Believe : Design Evidences in the Cosmos (1998)

B. Good site for genuine open minded Atheists and Seekers of truth : Answers for Atheists and Agnostics

C. The illogic of an atheist worldview :

Heres a very brief rundown of the alternative to God NOT existing -----

1. Non material entities such as our personality, consciousness, will, emotions, love, reasoning, logic, and abstract thinking....all derived from materials such as rocks/dirt/planets/and hydrogen gas.

2. A Universe which has a great many examples of intelligent intervention, came from Nothing by Nothing for no reason whatsoever.

3. Informational messages as found in the specified complexity of the DNA Molecule which tells a cell how to form and how micro biological systems are to be constructed...came from Nothing. They just popped into existence from nothing then proceeded to be a blue print and Builder of a complex Cell so busy and intricate that its been related to the infrastructure of a major U.S. City by Biologists (atheist and non atheist alike) .

4. There isnt a shred of purpose or reason to this life ...even though we as Human Beings contradict that every day of our live by how we live.

5. We are just a little above the animals of the Forest in value and dignity., and essentially are on the same order of importance as an earth worm.

6. Everything is purely accidental including morals and ethics...and it is silly to hold to such in any form and to any level. There is nothing that is absolutely and objectively wrong therefore...and it doesnt even make sense calling the extermination of 6 million Jews and Christians in Nazi Germany 'wrong' , for it is just opinion to do so if morals are accidental and there is no higher objective Moral Law Provider (God) .In fact, there is no objective reason for Mother Theresa being 'better' than Stalin or HItler.

7. Everything is utterly futile by placing any value on it, for, nothing in an accidental Universe could have any deliberate value. Therefore, we have no intrinsic value ...and we are no different than the Bird in the tree who struggles to survive in a valueLESS reality. A human baby we see arrive into the world is completely void of any value whatsoever and if it dies there should be absolutely no anquish or sorrow shed. In a futile world, there is no room for regret .

I could on..but suffice it to say that carried to the end....belief in No God (atheistic Secular Humanism) is THE most illogical ,unreasonable ,and devastating to society faith-based Religion ever to be devised by Man so he can make himself his own god and live as he likes with no lifestyle choice being off limits.

 

[graceandpeace]

"Let me tell you about all these historical documents and events that prove the validity of the Bible and how the world was intelligently designed. There is too much evidence not to believe in God."

"Most of the events and stories in the Bible were made up and could not have possibly occurred. Some of the Bible's stories are very similar to other texts. The Bible is unreliable."

I am constantly bombarded with opposing views about the Bible. How can I find a belief in God without having to rely solely on the testimony of others? Or is that the only thing keeping the belief in God alive?

My view as a Christian is that ultimately God cannot be "proven" universally in some sort of external, verifiable manner. It comes down to faith.

There is a false dichotomy in your characterizations above, though I don't think it was intentional. I believe in the validity of the Bible, but don't consider it a perfect & entirely literal collection of texts; there are myths similar to other time period stories that are written to convey theological truths (I.e. Genesis creation accounts). That doesn't mean the Bible is "invalid," but means we need to treat each text in the Bible as it was written to be understood.

There are Christians, however, who will not accept the above & will try to "prove" each text is infallible, etc. Likewise, there are atheists & others who will automatically reject the Bible (or the existence of the Christian God) because the texts use stories that may not be literally true or "perfect" in composition. Often it is these two camps that get into polarized "debate" working off of false premises, IMO.

 

[South Bound]

I am constantly bombarded with opposing views about the Bible. How can I find a belief in God without having to rely solely on the testimony of others? Or is that the only thing keeping the belief in God alive?

You already believe in God. You just don't acknowledge a belief in God because you know you're accountable to him and know that, if God is real, you're going to judged by Him for your sin.

 

[theophilus40]

If you want to know another person the best way to do this is not to listen to what other people say about him but to communicate with him and listen to what he says about himself. The same thing is true with knowing God.

He has revealed himself to us through his creation. The universe we observe, and especially the life that exists in it, is too complex to have come into existence by chance. It is evidence that God exists.

This by itself doesn't show which God is the true one but if you know there is a God you can communicate directly with him and ask him to reveal himself to you. While waiting for an answer you need to keep investigating but if you are sincere in your desire he will guide you so that you will arrive at the truth. God reveals himself to those whose desire for truth is strong enough to motivate them to actively seek it and who are willing to obey the truth when they find it.

 

[oi_antz]

gordRedeemed really answered your question here. But there is a new question you need to ask now. That is, what do you make of Jesus' claims?

Obviously when assessing the reliability of biblical statements, you do have this conundrum. You cannot cross-examine the authors of the statements, and you don't have the first-hand experience and point of view that they have. So you are left in a position of making a judgement about the statements based on what you decide is most likely to be true.

In decision making, your logic takes a view of the information through a lens that rationalises the information according to your preferences. The opposite of this is to be impartial, which is to look at the information without a distorting lens, and without concern for your preferences. What this means is that your observation of biblical statements, and the observation of the same statements by everyone else, is going to be distorted by our preferences.

So, you can use this when assessing the statements in the bible. Jesus must have had preferences too, and thus perceived information according to those preferences. So too the people in and of the bible, the believers and the disbelievers.

 

[Albion]

"Let me tell you about all these historical documents and events that prove the validity of the Bible and how the world was intelligently designed. There is too much evidence not to believe in God."

"Most of the events and stories in the Bible were made up and could not have possibly occurred. Some of the Bible's stories are very similar to other texts. The Bible is unreliable."

I am constantly bombarded with opposing views about the Bible. How can I find a belief in God without having to rely solely on the testimony of others? Or is that the only thing keeping the belief in God alive?

IMO you have to first deal with whether or not there is a God. If you are persuaded that God does exist, THEN consider the Bible and all it has to say and decide if it is the story/explanation/revelation of that God.

 

[Receiver]

... How can I find a belief in God without having to rely solely on the testimony of others? ...

Jesus didn't come to bring a words-only faith / a philosophy or a religion where you try your best to please God.

He came to bring relationship where God does His best, that will make you a witness!

A relationship is two living people interacting. A religion is you trying to interpret and fulfill words of others in your own strength.

You enter a daily two-way Father-son relationship with God by receiving His Spirit, as Jesus said:

"you shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and you shall be witnesses unto me" (Acts 1:8)

"at that day you shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. " (John 14:20)

"I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth" (John 16:12-13)

So, you need to receive Him!
See Acts 2:4, 33 for details and get to a meeting where people have it!
I'm with these.

 

[TheyCallMeDavid]

IMO you have to first deal with whether or not there is a God. If you are persuaded that God does exist, THEN consider the Bible and all it has to say and decide if it is the story/explanation/revelation of that God.

Read the Bible regardless cause God reveals himself to People thru his written word. See how the Bible speaks to you and hot is nails mankinds depravity .

 

[Albion]

Read the Bible regardless cause God reveals himself to People thru his written word. See how the Bible speaks to you and hot is nails mankinds depravity .

That's a possibility, but I stand by my advice.

 

[alexiscurious]

You already believe in God. You just don't acknowledge a belief in God because you know you're accountable to him and know that, if God is real, you're going to judged by Him for your sin.

It doesn't matter whether I decide to acknowledge him or not, either way, if he truly does exist, I will still be judged.

If I decided to jump off a skyscraper, would it honestly make any difference if I decided to acknowledge that gravity existed? The outcome would still be the same.

 

[alexiscurious]

My view as a Christian is that ultimately God cannot be "proven" universally in some sort of external, verifiable manner. It comes down to faith.

There is a false dichotomy in your characterizations above, though I don't think it was intentional. I believe in the validity of the Bible, but don't consider it a perfect & entirely literal collection of texts; there are myths similar to other time period stories that are written to convey theological truths (I.e. Genesis creation accounts). That doesn't mean the Bible is "invalid," but means we need to treat each text in the Bible as it was written to be understood.

There are Christians, however, who will not accept the above & will try to "prove" each text is infallible, etc. Likewise, there are atheists & others who will automatically reject the Bible (or the existence of the Christian God) because the texts use stories that may not be literally true or "perfect" in composition. Often it is these two camps that get into polarized "debate" working off of false premises, IMO.

So if I'm looking for some undeniably compelling evidence, I shouldn't bother looking?

 

[alexiscurious]

If you want to know another person the best way to do this is not to listen to what other people say about him but to communicate with him and listen to what he says about himself. The same thing is true with knowing God.

He has revealed himself to us through his creation. The universe we observe, and especially the life that exists in it, is too complex to have come into existence by chance. It is evidence that God exists.

This by itself doesn't show which God is the true one but if you know there is a God you can communicate directly with him and ask him to reveal himself to you. While waiting for an answer you need to keep investigating but if you are sincere in your desire he will guide you so that you will arrive at the truth. God reveals himself to those whose desire for truth is strong enough to motivate them to actively seek it and who are willing to obey the truth when they find it.

So I should sit here and wait for him to reveal himself? Ok thanks.

 

[dcalling]

For me there are 2 evidences prove the existence of God.

1. No real AI exists. If you ever designed anything AI related (games, bots), you will know all that are fake. If we can't design intelligence, nature can't either. So it must be from God.

We might be able to see the true proof of it soon. In another 10 or 20 years computers will have more compuation power than human brain (and soon be over the combined computation power of all humans due to moores law), and if there is still no real intelligence, God must exists.

2. The genes. We all know incest give higher chance of producing tards, because our genes got defects. So how did early human tribes survive that? we should all be tards today, unless the initial gene is perfect.

 

[oi_antz]

So I should sit here and wait for him to reveal himself? Ok thanks.

Observe how you respond when it happens.

 

[aiki]

I am constantly bombarded with opposing views about the Bible. How can I find a belief in God without having to rely solely on the testimony of others? Or is that the only thing keeping the belief in God alive?

If God exists and is as the Bible reveals Him to be, then He can be experienced directly. This has been my experience and the experience of millions of other Christians. If you want such an experience for yourself, then you have to seek Him out directly for yourself.

The Bible reveals what sort of Person God is, and how we may relate with Him, but it cannot impart to you your own personal experience of God.

Selah.

 

[graceandpeace]

So if I'm looking for some undeniably compelling evidence, I shouldn't bother looking?

I didn't state there was no evidence - I said there was no proof. I.e. I think the Gospel accounts of Jesus' death & resurrection are compelling for different reasons (certain details, etc), but I was not a witness nor do I have recorded footage or otherwise possess "undeniable" proof.