Ten arguments for intelligent design

rockytopva · Jul 22, 2019

For the Big Bang to have occurred we can visualize mass in outer space turning into plasma energy and expanding out from a point of origin....

M = E/c2

The product would be plasma energy (E/c2) that would cool back into mass (M). The plasma (E/c2) would freeze into the elements from Hydrogen (the lightest element) to Uranium (the heaviest naturally occurring element).

Which I believe transpired when God uttered these words, “Let there be light!”

VirOptimus · Jul 22, 2019

rockytopva said:
For the Big Bang to have occurred we can visualize mass in outer space turning into plasma energy and expanding out from a point of origin....

M = E/c2

The product would be plasma energy (E/c2) that would cool back into mass (M). The plasma (E/c2) would freeze into the elements from Hydrogen (the lightest element) to Uranium (the heaviest naturally occurring element).

Which I believe transpired when God uttered these words, “Let there be light!”

I see. You have no idea how the elements of the universe formed.

Ophiolite · Jul 22, 2019

rockytopva said:
Turning out like you is not an option for me. After Christ revealed himself to me it would be a terrible thing for me to become the least bit like you.

I don't believe I have suggested at any point that my aim was for you to become like me, or that such should be your aim. Rather I have suggested a number of things, which I shall summarise/paraphrase here:
1. Don't criticise something from a foundation of ignorance.
2. Don't repeat nonsense when the character of the nonsense has been explained to you.
3. If you intend to repetitively post your loose ideas without properly responding to comments/questions then start a blog, don't pollute a discussion forum.

rockytopva · Jul 22, 2019

VirOptimus said:
I see. You have no idea how the elements of the universe formed.

Well explain to me how you visualize it.

VirOptimus · Jul 22, 2019

rockytopva said:
Well explain to me how you visualize it.

I’m not responsible for you education.

Ophiolite · Jul 22, 2019

rockytopva said:
Well explain to me how you visualize it.

Here is a good start. If you have further questions just ask.

rockytopva · Jul 22, 2019

Ophiolite said:
Here is a good start. If you have further questions just ask.

What do you say ignited it?

rockytopva · Jul 22, 2019

VirOptimus said:
I’m not responsible for you education.

You say that because you do not know.

VirOptimus · Jul 22, 2019

rockytopva said:
You say that because you do not know.

I do know as I’m not ignorant and keep myself up to date in science.

rockytopva · Jul 22, 2019

I believe that the creation occurred 15 billion years after the fall of Lucifer. Let me break this one down...

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. - Genesis 1:1

Space and mass - Nothing else

And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. - Genesis 1:2

Space and mass - Nothing else
Waters - The Galactic Center of the Milky Way is obscured by dark clouds. As this center can be observed with infrared light I can only assume this as H2O water. If it were dust particles could it be seen with infrared God may have included dust particles in his definition of waters.

And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. - Genesis 1:3

As m = E/c2 so the mass dissociates into energy and light flowing out as plasma from a point of origins forming into what elements the Father willed it to.

*** I believe that 15 billion years transpired between Genesis 1:3-4***

And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. - Genesis 1:4

Keep in mind that the first day has not occurred yet. By dividing the light from the darkness the earth is put in orbit around the sun, dividing the light from the darkness.

And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. - Genesis 1:5

Now we are ready for the first day and the seven day creation story... 15 billion years from the time that God said, "Let there be light!" Now for Genesis 1:6-8

--------------------------------------------

From there we have three earth ages...

1. The first earth age
2. The middle ages
3.The seven church ages

The first earth age...

The seven church ages...

--------------------------------------------

As seven is a number of perfection, so God is going to allow the Earth to exist 6,000 years, with about a 400 year extension, this I take as days of grace. This will be followed by a millennial of peace when Lucifer will be vanished for a thousand years from the planet Earth.

When Lucifer is loosed he will try one more time to instigate a rebellion in which he will loose.

--------------------------------------------

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. - 2 Peter 3:10

As m = E/c2 so the elements will disassociate back into the energy and light from whence they were created and return back to God. God then will use that energy to recreate a new heaven and earth...

But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy. - 1 Peter 4:13

The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed: - 1 Peter 5:1

For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. - Romans 8:18

So God has not revealed what he is going to do with that enormous amount of energy and light that will return to him through the disassociation of the universe. But I do believe that it will be glorious, and that we saints of God who have weathered the trials of this Earth will be glad on our arrival.

Ophiolite · Jul 22, 2019

rockytopva said:
What do you say ignited it?

I don't say. I have philosophical objections to the Big Bang, but accept it because it is the best model, by far, to explain many observations in physics, chemistry, astronomy and cosmology. Until and unless a superior model is produced it would be obscene for me to discard it because of personal dislike.

As long as you understand that "ignited" is an inappropriate word, then I can say that cosmologists do not know what ignited it. There are various speculations, most of which - as I understand it - could not currently be tested and are therefore on the fringes of good science. Big Bang theory explores what happened a small fraction of a second after Time-Zero, until now.

rockytopva said:
You say that because you do not know

I would bet a year's salary* that viroptimus knows more about BB Theory than I do. He is implicitly pointing out to you that there is wealth of information, on-line, in libraries and bookshops, discussing the subject. If you genuinely wished to learn you would make the minor effort required to get started. That said, as long as you appear to be asking genuine questions and taking the information on board then I shall do my best to respond - at least until we reach the limit of my knowledge on the subject. (That won't take long.)

*As I am currently unemployed you may feel that's not much of a bet.

rockytopva · Jul 22, 2019

As E = mc2 so

m (mass) = E/c2 (Energy)

It never was created...
It cannot be destroyed...

It merely changes form over the universal ages. God therefore was always there. He was never created and he will never be destroyed. But the form of the E/c2 will change as he wills it. The universe was always there. The mass probably has dis-associated into E/c2 (plasma) and re-associated into m (mass) several times.

For our God is a consuming fire. - Hebrews 12:29

God is E/c2... He can cool E/c2 to form mass, or he can turn it back into the plasma from which it was forged.

rockytopva · Jul 22, 2019

Ophiolite said:
*As I am currently unemployed you may feel that's not much of a bet.

I put my faith to work and work in a lab making over 50,000 British pounds ($70,0000 US dollars) a year working in metallurgy, chemistry, and have experience with many type of spectrometers.

rockytopva · Jul 22, 2019

Jake and Elwood discovering the E/c2 of spiritual variety...

stevil · Jul 22, 2019

VirOptimus said:
I see. You have no idea how the elements of the universe formed.

One doesn't need to be a scientist or cosmologist to know that uranium wasn't a product of the big bang. Just a passing interest in cosmology is required. Maybe a little interest in reading.

The "science" exhibited in this thread, is overly simplistic and inaccurate.
The "god did it" assertion comes from nowhere and is wholey unsatisfactory.

Unless of course, you want god to be credited with it all, then I would imagine it is quite exciting to read another Christian writing stuff and then saying "god did it".

Strathos · Jul 22, 2019

stevil said:
Unless of course, you want god to be credited with it all, then I would imagine it is quite exciting to read another Christian writing stuff and then saying "god did it".

Christians already credit God with it all. The process of science is just figuring out the details of how He did it.

stevil · Jul 22, 2019

Strathos said:
Christians already credit God with it all. The process of science is just figuring out the details of how He did it.

Well, science isn't an endeavour related to finding out things about god. "What god is?, What god did?" these are not questions that science is trying to solve.

Science is a discovery method. And it relies on things being autonomous and measurable, rather than occuring due to a consciousness deciding to will things into existence or will an event to happen.

If your belief in a creator god is that the god setup the initial conditions and then the laws of nature/physics simply run their course from then on. Then you could have an interest in real science. You could claim that ultimately your god set things up (although you would have no actual evidence leading to this conclusion/assertion). But at least you wouldn't be trying to deny science. Your religious belief would appear to be "deist" in this regard.

If you believe that science is discovering the footprints of god's work, the majesty of how four fundamental forces and a handful of fundamental particle types work to become everything that exists and causes all events to occur. Then all the power to you.

When you see how complicated a living cell is you might think, wow it's amazing how god setup evolution to create such an amazing structure, and I might think, wow it's amazing that evolution created such an amazing structure. We both stand in awe.

I guess as long as we are both looking at the evidence and both are thinking that the process of evolution is both simple and amazing. We can discuss evolution together, we can debate it, we can point to evidence and we are both appreciating something. If you go beyond that (to what caused evolution), well that is not something I can engage with you on, but there are many people in this world that share your belief on that and you can discuss that part with them.

We don't have to agree on everything.

But I find it quite frustrating when some religious folk try to engage on evolution and state that god did it instead of evolution. and that evolution couldn't have because stuff is complicated.
It just shows that those people are not interested in the science or evidence. Perhaps they see it as a threat to their beliefs. IDK.

This thread here is even worse, because some guy is trying to be scientific and is completely botching it. Psuedo science is worse than simple denial. I know many people do this. Traditional Chinese Medicine is all like this. They try and relate the human body to earth, fire, water. They use philosophy and mix-up words, mix-up ideas, they conflate.
And probably in the times pre-science, this is all we had.
But we know better now. Don't we?

Humans are getting quite good now at proving physical things. We have tools and methods and we are really quite advanced now. We don't need to use old methods that have big gaping flaws.

rockytopva · Jul 22, 2019

If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die. - 1 Corinthians 15:32

This mass that makes up our bodies has came down through the eternities. I can take a stab on how she came forth. But my days are short, on the eternal scale of things on the morrow I die. I do not think any of us can say with any certainty how the Big Bang ignited and how the plasma energy from the ignition froze to elements that make up planet earth. Froze... I cast aluminum alloy in a casting facility and the term from molten to product is called freezing. And from E/c2 to M I call freezing. As far as I am concerned I will eat and drink, put my trust in Christ, for on the morrow I die!

Ophiolite · Jul 23, 2019

rockytopva said:
If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die. - 1 Corinthians 15:32

This mass that makes up our bodies has came down through the eternities. I can take a stab on how she came forth. But my days are short, on the eternal scale of things on the morrow I die. I do not think any of us can say with any certainty how the Big Bang ignited and how the plasma energy from the ignition froze to elements that make up planet earth. Froze... I cast aluminum alloy in a casting facility and the term from molten to product is called freezing. And from E/c2 to M I call freezing. As far as I am concerned I will eat and drink, put my trust in Christ, for on the morrow I die!

All well and good, but if you continue to mix third rate philosophy, pseudo science (both bad) and the power of your faith (good), then no one will take you seriously.

rockytopva · Jul 23, 2019

Ophiolite said:
All well and good, but if you continue to mix third rate philosophy, pseudo science (both bad) and the power of your faith (good), then no one will take you seriously.

Well... Inform me on how the Big Bang ignited and what slowed us down in the space travel from the point of origin.

Ten arguments for intelligent design

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Godless and without morals

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Godless and without morals

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