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To believe temporarily is the same as to never believe, because faith never fails.
Here is the point. WHEN a person believes and IS saved, they also POSSESS (in the present tense) eternal life. Not some far away future promise, but they actually HAVE it.
This is, of course, a serious error. Being born again has the SAME CONNOTATION of being born. The physical relationship between parent and child is PERMANENT. Can't be undone.We need to understand that "born again" is metaphor for being connected to the only source of life, Christ, which is also illustrated by the vine and branch metaphor. These are all about dynamic relationship between God and us!
No, again, that is quite wrong. We HAVE eternal life because Jesus GIVES believers eternal life. John 5:24, 6:47, 10:28.We have eternal life because we are “in Christ”, being joined to Christ, and are one spirit with Him.
The is eternal life. This is knowing Him.
And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. John 17:3
JLB
At what point does a person become born again, saved ?
When they believe?
Later on perhaps?
that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. Romans 10:9
JLB
And to tighten this up even further, John says:
Those who: (i) believe Jesus Christ came in flesh, and; (ii), keep the 2 greatest commandments, are the ones who know God (1J4:2, 7—8; 5:2)
Virtually all of the important language about who are His, is directly related to obeying Him, which is the expression of truly believing in Him. Non of this is momentary, nor only for a time.
At what point does a person become born again, saved ?
When they believe?
Later on perhaps?
No, again, that is quite wrong. We HAVE eternal life because Jesus GIVES believers eternal life. John 5:24, 6:47, 10:28.
But let's not kid ourselves, ok? Jesus also said that those He gives eternal life shall never perish.
And we all know from your many posts that you teach that those who have been given eternal life CAN perish.
Either you don't understand the difference between "shall never" and "can", or you do but you just don't believe His words.
And what does it mean to be given by Jesus Christ the capability to become Children of God (John1:12)?
By the way, simplify this question by deleting "saved" (for now) and this is a great question?
No, you are quite mixed up, though. You have clearly indicated that those who have been given eternal life CAN perish, which is just another way of saying that salvation can be lost. Yet Jesus taught the exact opposite of your view.You have mixed up having eternal life because we are in Christ, with inheriting eternal life.
Only those who abide in Christ have eternal life[/QUOTE]Now in this life, with this mortal body that can die, we have eternal life, (even though we can still die) by knowing Him, being joined to Him and are one spirit with Christ.
But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.
1 Corinthians 6:17
You are guilty of projection. What you charge others, you are the one guilty of.Can’t be refuted, it can only be denied. This is your whole theology, denying what the scriptures so plainly say.
Inheriting eternal life is a reference to reward in eternity. But your theology has no place for rewards in heaven at all. In spite of the overwhelming evidence of reward for obedience throughout the Bible.And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My name’s sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life. Matthew 19:29
See? Even you agree with me. I've highlighted your own words that fully support what I claim about inheriting eternal life.Inheriting eternal life comes at the resurrection of the dead in Christ after a person has followed the Lord, faithfully and not fallen away from Him; not deserted Him in a time of persecution, to save their life.
Except Jesus said nothing about your fantasy idea of "temporary salvation". There is no such thing in Scripture. I keep asking for such verses, and you keep failing to comply.But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13
Temporary believing results in temporary salvation.
- who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.
Sure. John 15:1-7 is about "bearing fruit", as I have just pointed out. Not getting or keeping salvation. Why you keep making that mistake is a wonder.Those who are removed from Christ are removed from the eternal life that is only found in Christ.
"Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away;"
Bingo! Thanks for agreeing.“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit.
John 15:1-2
Quite a twisted view of Scripture.If we do not remain in Christ, we do not remain in the eternal life that is in Christ.
No, you have the burden to prove that a believer who is sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who GUARANTEES the believer's inheritance for the day of redemption CAN BE UNSEALED.Here’s how we are instructed to remain in Christ.
Nope. Doesn't say anything about any risk of being unsealed.Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24
JLB
There is only a single time when one is saved, which is at the time of coming to faith in the above statement. If redemption is not obtained in this life it can never be obtained; and one is redeemed fully, as salvation doesn't admit in degrees. We are not redeemed any more in heaven than we are now, with the exception of the body.that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. Romans 10:9
JLB
Hi and God's blessings to you Brother! It's common knowledge among nearly all within the Bible commentator community that Literalism (taking words for exactly how they read) renders inconsistent parallelism (hermetical agreement) when attempting to comprehend correct thought concerning much of the NT growth doctrines of Scripture (salvific doctrine is clear enough as to avoid difficult comprehension on what salvation is and how to obtain it).What I find interesting, is that the word for believe but yet "never believing" is the same word for believing and having a true and enduring faith. It would seem the most straightforward meaning is that they actually believed and then abdicated their belief. "If the natural reading makes sense, there's no reason to look for another meaning."
Hi and God's blessings to you Brother! It's common knowledge among nearly all within the Bible commentator community that Literalism (taking words for exactly how they read) renders inconsistent parallelism (hermetical agreement) when attempting to comprehend correct thought concerning much of the NT growth doctrines of Scripture (salvific doctrine is clear enough as to avoid difficult comprehension on what salvation is and how to obtain it).
For example, Jesus said if you believe you will never die. The thought here is that once you have faith in Christ you can never die (second death). Thus the only acceptable interpretation that results in unity of Scripture is that of realizing the thought concerning the word "believe." If it's true that you will never die (and Scripture has no exceptions, e.g. you will always live) then it's also true you will always believe; hence faith is permanent as redemption. This answers to the reason why we never see Scripture with the phrase "becoming an unbeliever." If one ultimately manifests unbelief, it can only be due to never having believed, since faith is permanent.
I believe in order to preserve the truths and values of Scripture, the primary goal of Biblical hermeneutics is to maintain agreement among all passages, otherwise there will only be confusion, which is what many if not most in the Church have been experiencing for the last one and a half centuries, and I think this will continue so until the Lord's arrival.Without direct qualifying modifiers, we have no logical or hermeneutical foundation for adjudicating a different essence of meaning.
This is an interesting statement from one who believes that salvation can be lost.There is only a single time when one is saved, which is at the time of coming to faith in the above statement.
What verse has "the face value reading" that salvation can be lost?Hi WordSword,
It is also common knowledge that if the face value reading of a text makes sense, that no other meaning need be sought-after.
It's okay, but I think you may have misunderstood that I'm a believer that knows faith and salvation are permanent, and thanks for also supporting it.This is an interesting statement from one who believes that salvation can be lost.
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