Temple Mount Attack

KarrieTex · Feb 9, 2007

I am finding this very interesting for several reasons.

One) this is the Temple mount for the Jewish nation. The Temple had been built and destroyed a few times before the Muslim faith ever came into being. Why do they think that this is the rightful site?

Two) the Temple Mount is actually the only major "holy" site for the Jews and yet it looks like they are not allowed to repair it so it can last another 1000 or so years.

Three) the Temple is significant to the Tribulation period. I have read in that the tools and materials to rebuild the Temple have been completed. Could this not be the rev up for Israel to start rebuilding the temple?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,251065,00.html

Servant222 · Feb 10, 2007

We were just there over Christmas; here is my opinion on the situation.

The restoration work underway is right beside the Western or Wailing Wall- it involves rebuilding the entrance ramp shown on the far right, which allows people to go to the Temple Mount.

This is far removed from the al-Aqsa Mosque and it is obvious to anyone who has been there that this in no way, shape or form desecrates or even slightly affects the Temple Mount. The re-construction work is right beside the Western Wall, so does detract from the Jewish religious observances there.

Anyway, in my opinion, the current disturbances are completely unnecessary and are being provoked by misguided Palestinian youths. I do wonder whether this is all orchestrated by some of the Palestinian leaders, perhaps to try and unite the various Palestinian factions and make them once again focus on their common perceived enemy, Israel.

As long as some of the Palestinians continue to embrace violence and unrest, they will never achieve peace and nationhood. I say "some" because the vast majority of them, and certainly the many that we talked to in places like Bethlehem, seem to want peace; want all the things that we take for granted. But until they all renounce violence, give up the law of the gun, and resolve differences by negotiation, they will never achieve anything.

soblessed53 · Feb 15, 2007

Servant222 said:
We were just there over Christmas; here is my opinion on the situation.

The restoration work underway is right beside the Western or Wailing Wall- it involves rebuilding the entrance ramp shown on the far right, which allows people to go to the Temple Mount.

This is far removed from the al-Aqsa Mosque and it is obvious to anyone who has been there that this in no way, shape or form desecrates or even slightly affects the Temple Mount. The re-construction work is right beside the Western Wall, so does detract from the Jewish religious observances there.

Anyway, in my opinion, the current disturbances are completely unnecessary and are being provoked by misguided Palestinian youths. I do wonder whether this is all orchestrated by some of the Palestinian leaders, perhaps to try and unite the various Palestinian factions and make them once again focus on their common perceived enemy, Israel.

As long as some of the Palestinians continue to embrace violence and unrest, they will never achieve peace and nationhood. I say "some" because the vast majority of them, and certainly the many that we talked to in places like Bethlehem, seem to want peace; want all the things that we take for granted. But until they all renounce violence, give up the law of the gun, and resolve differences by negotiation, they will never achieve anything.

Exactly right! Meantime we can "hope" this is ushering in the return of Jesus!

intricatic · Feb 16, 2007

KarrieTex said:
I am finding this very interesting for several reasons.

One) this is the Temple mount for the Jewish nation. The Temple had been built and destroyed a few times before the Muslim faith ever came into being. Why do they think that this is the rightful site?

It is an interesting question with a lot of contested and varied answers, but I should hope that Israel can regain control over the Temple so they can restore their sacred site.

Do you mean to ask here, though, why the Islamic religion has made a claim to the Temple?

Two) the Temple Mount is actually the only major "holy" site for the Jews and yet it looks like they are not allowed to repair it so it can last another 1000 or so years.

I agree, it's really sad that this is such an ongoing and intense conflict.

Three) the Temple is significant to the Tribulation period. I have read in that the tools and materials to rebuild the Temple have been completed. Could this not be the rev up for Israel to start rebuilding the temple?

Possibly.

billwald · Feb 16, 2007

I would rather see the temple site nuked than rebuilt for if it was rebuilt I would have to convert to Judaism. Acts 5:34+ is a two edged sword.

gwynedd1 · Feb 16, 2007

What is the temple for? Why would God be building a temple or have someone to build it? Jesus never made mention of building a temple according to the old tabernacle. Nor does Revelation mention any earthly temple. Only the poor interpretation of Daniel which easily fits a context thousands of years ago.

http://www.biblehistory.net/newsletter/scapegoat.htm

Hebrews 8

1: Now the point in what we are saying is this: we have such a high priest, one who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven,
2: a minister in the sanctuary and the true tent which is set up not by man but by the Lord.
3: For every high priest is appointed to offer gifts and sacrifices; hence it is necessary for this priest also to have something to offer.
4: Now if he were on earth, he would not be a priest at all, since there are priests who offer gifts according to the law.
5: They serve a copy and shadow of the heavenly sanctuary; for when Moses was about to erect the tent, he was instructed by God, saying, "See that you make everything according to the pattern which was shown you on the mountain."
6: But as it is, Christ has obtained a ministry which is as much more excellent than the old as the covenant he mediates is better, since it is enacted on better promises.
7: For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion for a second.
8: For he finds fault with them when he says: "The days will come, says the Lord, when I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
9: not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; for they did not continue in my covenant, and so I paid no heed to them, says the Lord.
10: This is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put my laws into their minds, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
11: And they shall not teach every one his fellow or every one his brother, saying, `Know the Lord,' for all shall know me, from the least of them to the greatest.
12: For I will be merciful toward their iniquities, and I will remember their sins no more."
13: In speaking of a new covenant he treats the first as obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Servant222 · Feb 16, 2007

I presume you've heard the news http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6368073.stm that Israel has asked representatives from Turkey to independently review the situation and see whether the current restoration work is detrimentally affecting the Temple Mount.

This is a very volatile part of the world- when you are there, religion and politics are constantly in your face; check this picture out of a young woman soldier with a submachine gun at the Wailing Wall.

Here is an interesting picture showing the area on the amazing scale model of Jerusalem in about 66 A.D. that is now at the Israeli Museum in Jerusalem:

The picture shows the Second Temple at the top and the ancient City of David in the right foreground. The Kidron Valley is on the right; the Garden of Gethsemene is located just about where the people at top right are standing.

If you look carefully, you can see the ramp leading up to the Mugrabi gate on the left middle side of the Temple, which is where the current reconstruction is being done. The Wailing wall is just beyond the ramp in the model, and in front of the soldier in the first picture above.

Now the City of David is even more controversial- it is almost as important to the Jewish people as the Western (Wailing) wall, but there are a number of private homes there that belong to Palestinian families. The Jewish authorities would like to buy out the Palestinian homes so they can continue their archeological research, and restore more of the City of David. However, the Palestinian authorities are strongly opposed to this- and put a lot of pressure on the Palestinian families to stay and not sell. We were told that any family that does sell is apparently ostracized and forced to move to a different country.

Servant222 · Feb 16, 2007

If you haven't already done so, read about the Temple Mount in Wikipedia at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_Mount

Another interesting fact: the Temple Mount and Dome of the Rock are only about 30 km from the Jordan Valley fault, which marks the boundary between the Arabian and African plates; you can read more about that at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Rift_Valley

Now the Jordan Valley fault is similar to the San Andreas and can be the site of some pretty big earthquakes- which brings up the interesting question of what would happen if a major earthquake hit Jerusalem and the Dome of the Rock collapsed, or was badly damaged.

intricatic · Feb 16, 2007

gwynedd1 said:
What is the temple for? Why would God be building a temple or have someone to build it? Jesus never made mention of building a temple according to the old tabernacle. Nor does Revelation mention any earthly temple. Only the poor interpretation of Daniel which easily fits a context thousands of years ago.

http://www.biblehistory.net/newsletter/scapegoat.htm

Hebrews 8

Whether or not it's an implicit Christian concept is immaterial.

gwynedd1 · Feb 16, 2007

intricatic said:
Whether or not it's an implicit Christian concept is immaterial.

I disagree. Below was in the original post and is quite topical. Therefore I cannot comprehend your statement. The temple seems central to many eschatological points of view in Christianity. I believe there is no basis for it. There is no significance of the 3rd temple in any New Testament document. The typical reference is that of the "anti-Christ" in the "holy place" in Daniel. There is no "holy place" after Christ. There is no real temple of that sort on earth and cannot be.

Three) the Temple is significant to the Tribulation period. I have read in that the tools and materials to rebuild the Temple have been completed. Could this not be the rev up for Israel to start rebuilding the temple?

soblessed53 · Feb 16, 2007

gwynedd1 said:
What is the temple for? Why would God be building a temple or have someone to build it? Jesus never made mention of building a temple according to the old tabernacle. Nor does Revelation mention any earthly temple. Only the poor interpretation of Daniel which easily fits a context thousands of years ago.

http://www.biblehistory.net/newsletter/scapegoat.htm

Hebrews 8

Because of Bible Prophecy
The Man of Sin will desecrate the Temple at mid-point of The Tribulation. This subject is explored more fully in the section about The Mark of The Beast.

Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains; let him who is on the housetop not go down to get the things out that are in his house; and let him who is in the field not turn back to get his cloak. (Matthew 24:15-18)

And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate. (Daniel 9:27)

New Testament References to the Future Temple
In addition to Jesus' mentioning the future desecration of a temple in Jerusalem at the end of the age in which we now live (Matthew 24, Luke 21), the Apostle Paul speaks of this same event in his Second letter to the Thessalonian church. Paul calls the desecrator "the man of sin." Thirdly, seeing ahead into the distant future, the aged Apostle John wrote about this same Third Temple which has never yet been built:
I was given a reed like a measuring rod and was told, "Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, and count the worshipers there. But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months. (Revelation 11:1-2)

http://www.ldolphin.org/kingdom/ch9.html

gwynedd1 · Feb 16, 2007

soblessed53 said:
Because of Bible Prophecy
The Man of Sin will desecrate the Temple at mid-point of The Tribulation. This subject is explored more fully in the section about The Mark of The Beast.

Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains; let him who is on the housetop not go down to get the things out that are in his house; and let him who is in the field not turn back to get his cloak. (Matthew 24:15-18)

And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate. (Daniel 9:27)

New Testament References to the Future Temple
In addition to Jesus' mentioning the future desecration of a temple in Jerusalem at the end of the age in which we now live (Matthew 24, Luke 21), the Apostle Paul speaks of this same event in his Second letter to the Thessalonian church. Paul calls the desecrator "the man of sin." Thirdly, seeing ahead into the distant future, the aged Apostle John wrote about this same Third Temple which has never yet been built:
I was given a reed like a measuring rod and was told, "Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, and count the worshipers there. But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months. (Revelation 11:1-2)

http://www.ldolphin.org/kingdom/ch9.html

The second temple was not destroyed until 70 AD. All those references almost certainly apply to the second temple. I ask again where is the third temple? How do we explain Hebrews? How do we expain the new covenant?

HOW THE ROMANS CARRIED THEIR ENSIGNS TO THE TEMPLE, AND MADE JOYFUL ACCLAMATIONS TO TITUS. THE SPEECH THAT TITUS MADE TO THE JEWS WHEN THEY MADE SUPPLICATION FOR MERCY. WHAT REPLY THEY MADE THERETO; AND HOW THAT REPLY MOVED TITUS'S INDIGNATION AGAINST THEM.
1. AND now the Romans, upon the flight of the seditious into the city, and upon the burning of the holy house itself, and of all the buildings round about it, brought their ensigns to the temple (24) and set them over against its eastern gate; and there did they offer sacrifices to them, and there did they make Titus imperator (25) with the greatest acclamations of joy. And now all the soldiers had such vast quantities of the spoils which they had gotten by plunder, that in Syria a pound weight of gold was sold for half its former value.

[/qoute]

Look at the Daniel quote here. The Roman standard has wings of all things.

and upon the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator."

Click to expand...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Roman_aquila.jpg

Can you explain how this means two temples?

Lets looks at this event elsewhere.

Zech 11

1: Open your doors, O Lebanon, that the fire may devour your cedars!
2: Wail, O cypress, for the cedar has fallen, for the glorious trees are ruined! Wail, oaks of Bashan, for the thick forest has been felled!
3: Hark, the wail of the shepherds, for their glory is despoiled! Hark, the roar of the lions, for the jungle of the Jordan is laid waste!
4: Thus said the LORD my God: "Become shepherd of the flock doomed to slaughter.
5: Those who buy them slay them and go unpunished; and those who sell them say, `Blessed be the LORD, I have become rich'; and their own shepherds have no pity on them.
6: For I will no longer have pity on the inhabitants of this land, says the LORD. Lo, I will cause men to fall each into the hand of his shepherd, and each into the hand of his king; and they shall crush the earth, and I will deliver none from their hand."
7: So I became the shepherd of the flock doomed to be slain for those who trafficked in the sheep. And I took two staffs; one I named Grace, the other I named Union. And I tended the sheep.
8: In one month I destroyed the three shepherds. But I became impatient with them, and they also detested me.
9: So I said, "I will not be your shepherd. What is to die, let it die; what is to be destroyed, let it be destroyed; and let those that are left devour the flesh of one another."
10: And I took my staff Grace, and I broke it, annulling the covenant which I had made with all the peoples.
11: So it was annulled on that day, and the traffickers in the sheep, who were watching me, knew that it was the word of the LORD.
12: Then I said to them, "If it seems right to you, give me my wages; but if not, keep them." And they weighed out as my wages thirty shekels of silver.
13: Then the LORD said to me, "Cast it into the treasury" -- the lordly price at which I was paid off by them. So I took the thirty shekels of silver and cast them into the treasury in the house of the LORD.
14: Then I broke my second staff Union, annulling the brotherhood between Judah and Israel.
15: Then the LORD said to me, "Take once more the implements of a worthless shepherd.
16: For lo, I am raising up in the land a shepherd who does not care for the perishing, or seek the wandering, or heal the maimed, or nourish the sound, but devours the flesh of the fat ones, tearing off even their hoofs.
17: Woe to my worthless shepherd, who deserts the flock! May the sword smite his arm and his right eye! Let his arm be wholly withered, his right eye utterly blinded!"

Click to expand...

Cedar doors are certainly a reference to the temple. All one needs to do is look at the materials gathered by Solomon in Kings.
The 30 pieces of silver is certainly to Identify Jesus.

Here is another interesting fact. Who were the 3 shepards?
These fueding factions destoyed Jerusalem . Due to the infighting the food stocks were burned to try and drive the millions from the city to fight the Romans. This certainly was the near destruction of Jews. This happened during Passover when all Jews came to the city. That is except for the Christians who fled because they knew what Christ had told them. Notice how they devoured each other. This is also consistent with a disaster occuring to a nation in Daniel 12.

4. And now there were three treacherous factions in the city, the one parted from the other. Eleazar and his party, that kept the sacred first-fruits, came against John in their cups. Those that were with John plundered the populace, and went out with zeal against Simon. This Simon had his supply of provisions from the city, in opposition to the seditious. When, therefore, John was assaulted on both sides, he made his men turn about, throwing his darts upon those citizens that came up against him, from the cloisters he had in his possession, while he opposed those that attacked him from the temple by his engines of war. And if at any time he was freed from those that were above him, which happened frequently, from their being drunk and tired, he sallied out with a great number upon Simon and his party; and this he did always in such parts of the city as he could come at, till he set on fire those houses that were full of corn, and of all other provisions. (4) The same thing was done by Simon, when, upon the other's retreat, he attacked the city also; as if they had, on purpose, done it to serve the Romans, by destroying what the city had laid up against the siege, and by thus cutting off the nerves of their own power. Accordingly, it so came to pass, that all the places that were about the temple were burnt down, and were become an intermediate desert space, ready for fighting on both sides of it; and that almost all that corn was burnt, which would have been sufficient for a siege of many years. So they were taken by the means of the famine, which it was impossible they should have been, unless they had thus prepared the way for it by this procedure.

Click to expand...

http://www.ccel.org/j/josephus/works/war-5.htm

Temple Mount Attack

KarrieTex

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