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Discussion and Debate
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Tax money already finding health care in the US
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<blockquote data-quote="ExodusMe" data-source="post: 71141149" data-attributes="member: 394919"><p>You're claim was that healthcare in Canada is treated as a human right. Some provinces don't cover prescriptions or dental care. Therefore, your claim that health care is a human right and should be basic to all humans (like Canada) is a lie. My point is that you and [USER=381486]@JackRT[/USER] keep sugar coating your healthcare system as if it is the best and somehow everyone who doesn't do it Canada's way is morally inferior. Take a look in the mirror please. Health care is complicated and there is no 'one-size fits all' system.</p><p></p><p> Yes, my point was that if people are getting supplementary coverage, then your system is deficient as you stated that "Canadian citizens get equal health coverage". That was a lie also given 30% of spending is private. You're system is just a mix of capitalism and socialism as the private spending subsidizes the poor government care.</p><p></p><p> Naw, you are just strawmanning my argument. Your single payer system is based on rationing 'non-essential' procedures, so you are put on a waiting list as the government decides whether it is medically necessary or not. This is to keep cost down as noted in this <a href="http://www.aarp.org/politics-society/government-elections/info-03-2012/myths-canada-health-care.html" target="_blank">article</a> (they say supply and I say demand but it is all based on perspective). Therefore, the Canadian government is attempting to control the demand for healthcare.</p><p></p><p>The problem is that you have a non-medical professional deciding something medically significant. Hence, my argument that waiting lists lead to deaths, etc... as individuals who would have otherwise received treatment and gone through the process faster based on the mechanics of a free market and supply/demand. The statistics regarding wait times and deaths can be found in this <a href="http://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/canada-wait-times-deadly-and-take-longer-than-ever/" target="_blank">article.</a></p><p></p><p>Here is an excerpt: </p><p><strong>Research has repeatedly indicated that wait times for medically necessary treatment are not benign inconveniences. Wait times can, and do, have serious consequences such as increased pain, suffering, and mental anguish. In certain instances, they can also result in poorer medical outcomes—transforming potentially reversible illnesses or injuries into chronic, irreversible conditions, or even permanent disabilities. In many instances, patients may also have to forgo their wages while they wait for treatment, resulting in an economic cost to the individuals themselves and the economy in general.</strong></p><p></p><p>1) I am not defending the American healthcare system. It is broken. It is not based on free market mechanics. It has always been subsidized by the government. Therefore, to make any claim that capitalism is at fault would only be done in ignorance.</p><p></p><p>2) That is bad reasoning. Free market capitalism has reduced the cost of many goods while maintaining a 'for profit' market. I don't think I need to substantiate that claim, but let me know if you need sources.</p><p></p><p>3) I agree with you on one point. The issue is price. The question is; what is the best way to reduce the price of healthcare? Free market mechanics is the best. We need to reduce the time required to educate to-be healthcare professionals and eliminate competitive barriers for insurance companies.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="ExodusMe, post: 71141149, member: 394919"] You're claim was that healthcare in Canada is treated as a human right. Some provinces don't cover prescriptions or dental care. Therefore, your claim that health care is a human right and should be basic to all humans (like Canada) is a lie. My point is that you and [USER=381486]@JackRT[/USER] keep sugar coating your healthcare system as if it is the best and somehow everyone who doesn't do it Canada's way is morally inferior. Take a look in the mirror please. Health care is complicated and there is no 'one-size fits all' system. Yes, my point was that if people are getting supplementary coverage, then your system is deficient as you stated that "Canadian citizens get equal health coverage". That was a lie also given 30% of spending is private. You're system is just a mix of capitalism and socialism as the private spending subsidizes the poor government care. Naw, you are just strawmanning my argument. Your single payer system is based on rationing 'non-essential' procedures, so you are put on a waiting list as the government decides whether it is medically necessary or not. This is to keep cost down as noted in this [URL='http://www.aarp.org/politics-society/government-elections/info-03-2012/myths-canada-health-care.html']article[/URL] (they say supply and I say demand but it is all based on perspective). Therefore, the Canadian government is attempting to control the demand for healthcare. The problem is that you have a non-medical professional deciding something medically significant. Hence, my argument that waiting lists lead to deaths, etc... as individuals who would have otherwise received treatment and gone through the process faster based on the mechanics of a free market and supply/demand. The statistics regarding wait times and deaths can be found in this [URL='http://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/canada-wait-times-deadly-and-take-longer-than-ever/']article.[/URL] Here is an excerpt: [B]Research has repeatedly indicated that wait times for medically necessary treatment are not benign inconveniences. Wait times can, and do, have serious consequences such as increased pain, suffering, and mental anguish. In certain instances, they can also result in poorer medical outcomes—transforming potentially reversible illnesses or injuries into chronic, irreversible conditions, or even permanent disabilities. In many instances, patients may also have to forgo their wages while they wait for treatment, resulting in an economic cost to the individuals themselves and the economy in general.[/B] 1) I am not defending the American healthcare system. It is broken. It is not based on free market mechanics. It has always been subsidized by the government. Therefore, to make any claim that capitalism is at fault would only be done in ignorance. 2) That is bad reasoning. Free market capitalism has reduced the cost of many goods while maintaining a 'for profit' market. I don't think I need to substantiate that claim, but let me know if you need sources. 3) I agree with you on one point. The issue is price. The question is; what is the best way to reduce the price of healthcare? Free market mechanics is the best. We need to reduce the time required to educate to-be healthcare professionals and eliminate competitive barriers for insurance companies. [/QUOTE]
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