Tattoos

TasManOfGod · Nov 29, 2006

It is a common but mistaken belief that tattoos are not OK except if they have a Christian theme like a cross or a bleeding heart or a crown of thorns or something. That would be fine if Lev 19:28 is writen that way -but it is not . If it was you would see tattoos of the menorah or the "Star of David" tattooed all over the Jewish followers. If anybody would know how to interpret Leviticus the Jews would.
Leviticus simply says that if you want to be Holy dont do tats. Nothing could be more plain -Oh and by the way we still worship the same God remember.

Evangelina · Nov 29, 2006

Well, you get points for being determined!

I'm sad to see that you haven't managed to answer people's questions in such a way that they could understand the progression of logic through your beliefs. Obviously that logic is clear as day to you (at least I hope so!) - however your communication of that logic hasn't worked so well Ah well, happens to the best of us!

TasManOfGod · Nov 29, 2006

Evangelina said:
Well, you get points for being determined!

I'm sad to see that you haven't managed to answer people's questions in such a way that they could understand the progression of logic through your beliefs. Obviously that logic is clear as day to you (at least I hope so!) - however your communication of that logic hasn't worked so well Ah well, happens to the best of us!

Perhaps you can explain what is not clear -that would be a beginning to solving your problem with what I have written I quess

I'ddie4him · Nov 29, 2006

TasManOfGod said:
It is a common but mistaken belief that tattoos are not OK except if they have a Christian theme like a cross or a bleeding heart or a crown of thorns or something. That would be fine if Lev 19:28 is writen that way -but it is not . If it was you would see tattoos of the menorah or the "Star of David" tattooed all over the Jewish followers. If anybody would know how to interpret Leviticus the Jews would.
Leviticus simply says that if you want to be Holy dont do tats. Nothing could be more plain -Oh and by the way we still worship the same God remember.

No, It is a mistaken belief that we are under the Old law which was fulfilled.
We are under Grace now and not under Levitical law in this day and age.

Evangelina · Nov 29, 2006

TasManOfGod said:
Perhaps you can explain what is not clear -that would be a beginning to solving your problem with what I have written I quess

I think a number of people have stated almost exactly the same things... but let me see if I can present the problem a bit differently, and see if that helps.

Your logic seems to say:

Leviticus outlines God's likes and dislikes
The Jews know how to interpret Leviticus
People who follow Judaism do not get tattoos
Therefore the 'tattooing' or 'marking' mentioned refers to modern-day tattoos too
Some of the rules in Leviticus do not need to be followed anymore
The tattooing rule is one which DOES need to be followed
It needs to be followed because it was a pagan practice AND because it changes the body

Would you agree that that's a fair summary of the logic you've presented?

The two abiding weak points - or seeming weak points - in your logic that you haven't managed to explain fully are these:

- You've denounced tattooing as wrong based on it being a pagan practice, but excused other Levitical laws based on them being pagan practices. This seems highly illogical.

- You refer to modern-day followers of Judaism as authorities on interpreting scripture, yet do not agree with all of their interpretations of scripture. This also seems highly illogical.

I have read every single post in this thread, some of them several times over. I'm not interested in point-scoring or proving you 'wrong' and me 'right'. What I am interested in is finding out why exactly you believe this to be wrong, and in following your logic throughout your argument. I don't believe we've been successful yet.

I'ddie4him · Nov 29, 2006

Evangelina said:
Well, you get points for being determined!

I'm sad to see that you haven't managed to answer people's questions in such a way that they could understand the progression of logic through your beliefs. Obviously that logic is clear as day to you (at least I hope so!) - however your communication of that logic hasn't worked so well Ah well, happens to the best of us!

There is no correct answer to be given here Evangelina.
This has been tried many a time only to have it thrown back at us that we are sinning by getting one.

To follow so strongly only one law and ignore the rest of the 613 laws written is picking and choosing what one wishes to do. That is sinful itself.

The Bible clearly states that taking away from or adding to the written word is a sin. I am very comfortable knowing that God looks at the heart, Not the outside.

I'ddie4him · Nov 29, 2006

Evangelina said:
I think a number of people have stated almost exactly the same things... but let me see if I can present the problem a bit differently, and see if that helps.

Your logic seems to say:

Leviticus outlines God's likes and dislikes
The Jews know how to interpret Leviticus
People who follow Judaism do not get tattoos
Therefore the 'tattooing' or 'marking' mentioned refers to modern-day tattoos too
Some of the rules in Leviticus do not need to be followed anymore
The tattooing rule is one which DOES need to be followed
It needs to be followed because it was a pagan practice AND because it changes the body

Would you agree that that's a fair summary of the logic you've presented?

The two abiding weak points - or seeming weak points - in your logic that you haven't managed to explain fully are these:

- You've denounced tattooing as wrong based on it being a pagan practice, but excused other Levitical laws based on them being pagan practices. This seems highly illogical.

- You refer to modern-day followers of Judaism as authorities on interpreting scripture, yet do not agree with all of their interpretations of scripture. This also seems highly illogical.

I have read every single post in this thread, some of them several times over. I'm not interested in point-scoring or proving you 'wrong' and me 'right'. What I am interested in is finding out why exactly you believe this to be wrong, and in following your logic throughout your argument. I don't believe we've been successful yet.

The logic shown is wrong Evangelina.
We can state this all day long everyday and it will still be ignored.
We can keep asking why only ONE law of 613 is the only one followed.
There is no logical answer.

BugLady · Nov 30, 2006

What a great thread! I am about 30% tattooed over my body, with images of insects, fish and other of God's creatures. I am proud of my tattoos, as I feel that they display my passion for life on Earth. It is my understanding from the words of Jesus and Paul that the rules of the Old Testament (Leviticus, for example), are not the rules that Christians must abide by for acceptance into Heaven. As far as the argument that tattooing was a pagan practice- so what? The Bible doesn't mention anything specifically about that aspect of tattooing, and I think we should not read in our own interpretations.

BL

I'ddie4him · Nov 30, 2006

BugLady said:
What a great thread! I am about 30% tattooed over my body, with images of insects, fish and other of God's creatures. I am proud of my tattoos, as I feel that they display my passion for life on Earth. It is my understanding from the words of Jesus and Paul that the rules of the Old Testament (Leviticus, for example), are not the rules that Christians must abide by for acceptance into Heaven. As far as the argument that tattooing was a pagan practice- so what? The Bible doesn't mention anything specifically about that aspect of tattooing, and I think we should not read in our own interpretations.

BL

Well Said

Sephania · Nov 30, 2006

I'ddie4him said:
There is no correct answer to be given here Evangelina.
This has been tried many a time only to have it thrown back at us that we are sinning by getting one.

To follow so strongly only one law and ignore the rest of the 613 laws written is picking and choosing what one wishes to do. That is sinful itself.

The Bible clearly states that taking away from or adding to the written word is a sin. I am very comfortable knowing that God looks at the heart, Not the outside.

I just have a couple of questions and just want to say I am not calling any one a sinner here because I have no right, doing someting to your body does not sin against me, I didn't create you and determine how you should look

But I am wondering by some of these answers here if those who have tattoo and or support getting them really think that only those who ae posting in this forum hold only to that one law? and wouldn't that mean that they don't follow even the 10 commandments? The Shema, The V'ahavatah? ( love the L-rD your G-d and love your neighbor as yourself). And for those who don't follow not to mark your body but say you love the L-RD , aren't you picking and choosing as well?

Aren't we called to follow What Jesus did? If he didn't do it, because he made the laws in the first place, and showed that it was not impossible for a man to follow, then why can't and should'nt we?

Iddie4him, you say you would die for him, yet you wouldn't keep your body unmarked for him?

Yes,it is true that G-d sees the heart, but our bodies are witnesses of who lives inside, and we shouldn't just honor him with our lips but our obedience be far from him.

I'ddie4him · Nov 30, 2006

AniMaamin said:
I just have a couple of questions and just want to say I am not calling any one a sinner here because I have no right, doing someting to your body does not sin against me, I didn't create you and determine how you should look

But I am wondering by some of these answers here if those who have tattoo and or support getting them really think that only those who ae posting in this forum hold only to that one law? and wouldn't that mean that they don't follow even the 10 commandments? The Shema, The V'ahavatah? ( love the L-rD your G-d and love your neighbor as yourself). And for those who don't follow not to mark your body but say you love the L-RD , aren't you picking and choosing as well?

Aren't we called to follow What Jesus did? If he didn't do it, because he made the laws in the first place, and showed that it was not impossible for a man to follow, then why can't and should'nt we?

Iddie4him, you say you would die for him, yet you wouldn't keep your body unmarked for him?

Yes,it is true that G-d sees the heart, but our bodies are witnesses of who lives inside, and we shouldn't just honor him with our lips but our obedience be far from him.

Well, Let's see here.

First off,
I am not holding to any law that says I can or can't.
Secondly,
Questioning me about having an unmarked body is not yours to ask.
Thirdly,
If I trim my beard, eat pork, wear mixed fabrics, and anything else against what is written in Lev 19, Am I less of a Christian ??
By your response, It says Yes. Shameful.

I have simply asked for clarification WHY some SAY it is a Law when the Old Law was fulfilled and we are under Grace. There has been no suitable or logical answer provided yet.
I am picking and choosing nothing, I am not condemning anyone for having one, Nor am I questioning anyones faith or beliefs.

Why did Christ shed is blood ??
Why did God send his son ??

So our sins would be cleansed and we would be white as snow. On that day when we go to heaven, We will not have a body, We will not have a tat that some think will change us in Gods sight. Thats where the logic of this fails.
This is something that others want to force at us constantly and question our faith and christianity.

Where is it for them to judge ??
Where is it for them to pass sentence ??
It isn't.

Thats God's job and I have full faith that on the day I see him, I WILL be pure and clean.

pete56 · Nov 30, 2006

AniMaamin said:
I just have a couple of questions and just want to say I am not calling any one a sinner here because I have no right, doing someting to your body does not sin against me, I didn't create you and determine how you should look

But I am wondering by some of these answers here if those who have tattoo and or support getting them really think that only those who ae posting in this forum hold only to that one law? and wouldn't that mean that they don't follow even the 10 commandments? The Shema, The V'ahavatah? ( love the L-rD your G-d and love your neighbor as yourself). And for those who don't follow not to mark your body but say you love the L-RD , aren't you picking and choosing as well?

Aren't we called to follow What Jesus did? If he didn't do it, because he made the laws in the first place, and showed that it was not impossible for a man to follow, then why can't and should'nt we?

Iddie4him, you say you would die for him, yet you wouldn't keep your body unmarked for him?

Yes,it is true that G-d sees the heart, but our bodies are witnesses of who lives inside, and we shouldn't just honor him with our lips but our obedience be far from him.

Well if we follow that line of argument, would it not also extend to all forms of body jewellry (ear rings, finger rings, nacklace - including the cross etc) and also make-up?

Pete

Splayd · Nov 30, 2006

Shalom AniMaamin,

I respect your approach to this topic as being fairly consistent. Likewise I acknowledge that those who deny the necessity of Torah are at least consistent in their lack of observance in thise regard.

There are some here that are having difficulty establishing consistency in their understanding and application though. It makes it difficult to comprehend where they are coming from when their approach appears to contradict itself and they can't explain why.

TheDag · Nov 30, 2006

TasManOfGod said:
It is a common but mistaken belief that tattoos are not OK except if they have a Christian theme like a cross or a bleeding heart or a crown of thorns or something. That would be fine if Lev 19:28 is writen that way -but it is not . If it was you would see tattoos of the menorah or the "Star of David" tattooed all over the Jewish followers. If anybody would know how to interpret Leviticus the Jews would.
Leviticus simply says that if you want to be Holy dont do tats. Nothing could be more plain -Oh and by the way we still worship the same God remember.

The other issue that I would like addressed as well as what Evangelina mentioned is why is it some translations don't mention tattoos in Lev 19:28? Why do only some mention it. I have looked at alot of translations and the majority do not mention the tattoos but only marking oneself for the dead. Why did the translators that specificaaly mentioned tattoos feel the need to add that in when others didn't? Maybe you don't know the answer to that. I sure don't but it does suggest to me that it could be a personal bias of the translators.

shredhead320 · Nov 30, 2006

I have a question:

Does anyone know where I could find Hebrews 10:14 written in Galilean Aramaic? I want to get this tattooed on my left shoulder blade/my left upper arm because not only does Aramaic look really cool (reminds me of LotR) but also, it would be cool to have the language of Jesus on it!

A4C · Dec 1, 2006

TheDag said:
The other issue that I would like addressed as well as what Evangelina mentioned is why is it some translations don't mention tattoos in Lev 19:28? Why do only some mention it. I have looked at alot of translations and the majority do not mention the tattoos but only marking oneself for the dead. Why did the translators that specificaaly mentioned tattoos feel the need to add that in when others didn't? Maybe you don't know the answer to that. I sure don't but it does suggest to me that it could be a personal bias of the translators.

Perhaps you ought to ask the translators that one

shredhead320 · Dec 1, 2006

shredhead320 said:
I have a question:

Does anyone know where I could find Hebrews 10:14 written in Galilean Aramaic? I want to get this tattooed on my left shoulder blade/my left upper arm because not only does Aramaic look really cool (reminds me of LotR) but also, it would be cool to have the language of Jesus on it!

...

TheDag · Dec 1, 2006

A4C said:
Perhaps you ought to ask the translators that one

Ok so I didn't expect you to know the answer but the fact that a few mention tattoos and the majority of translations I looked at didn't raises sufficient doubt in my mind to ask should it really be there or is it something that was added because of personal bias by the translators. I'm not sure of the answer myself but I lean towards that the word tattoos isn't supposed to be there. I don't have a tattoo and I have no intention to get one either so I'm not influenced by desires to get one.

Splayd · Dec 1, 2006

The word tattoo isn't "meant" to be there because it doesn't translate that way specifically. Some translators have considered that the process in question has similarities to tattooing and use that word because it's contemporary and more readily understood, but it's not the same. The actual process in question isn't defined but is understood to be quite different.

Nevertheless - the issue really isn't about the process but about the purpose.

IronCross7 · Dec 1, 2006

what if it is a tattoo for the Lord is it still bad??

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