Tattoos

BoranJarami · Nov 12, 2006

Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD.
(Leviticus 19:28)

If you choose to stick with the letter of the law, then I must point out that this verse has absolutly nothing to do with tatoos. The word translated "print" here is nathan and means to place or set and the word translated "marks" is k'thobeth qa'aqa' which has to do with branding (which uses heat to burn the skin). In other words we are not to cut or burn ourselves (at least not for the dead).

Mling · Nov 12, 2006

Interesting. I like to examine the original language of Scripture to avoid confusions like this. I'd be interested in knowing the cultural practice that led to that prohibition.

Not the least of which because, while I don't think I'm going to get a tatoo, I have actually considered a branding.

BoranJarami · Nov 13, 2006

well, the verse it's self gives us an idea of where it came from. Apearently there were cultures in the land that used it to honor or worship the dead. All in all I believe this is an admonishen against the pagan rituals rapent in the promised land.

Mling · Nov 13, 2006

well, the verse it's self gives us an idea of where it came from. Apearently there were cultures in the land that used it to honor or worship the dead. All in all I believe this is an admonishen against the pagan rituals rapent in the promised land.

Yeah, that section of Leviticus (maybe all of Leviticus, I haven't studied the whole thing) is very much about boundry maintainance. I would even believe that it was written long after they arrived, as a way of explaining why their culture now has certain taboos.

TasManOfGod · Nov 13, 2006

God was no more (or less) interested in the welfare of the Children of Israel after they came out of captivity than He is when we come out of captivity (of this world). For that reason He does not want us to inflict upon ourselves damage which in one way or another we may later regret. To me God is a loving Father who has what is best for us in mind and the good part about Him is that He never changes from doing that.

russmoon · Nov 13, 2006

Getting a tattoo for reasons of vanity seems more of a sin to me, than having one. Tattoo's are symbols and/or messages that are our personal stories and personal reminders. A cross is a symbol-whether it is make of wood or ink. I think the more question with tattoo's here is in the message. What does the symbol represent? Is it important enough to make a part of your body?

TasManOfGod · Nov 13, 2006

I am sure God didn't add a rider to Lev 19:28 suggesting that it was OK with Him providing the markings were of the "menorah" or some such

Arclight610 · Nov 13, 2006

TasManOfGod · Nov 13, 2006

I think that another downside of tattoos is the general display of pride that goes with them

BoranJarami · Nov 13, 2006

I am sure God didn't add a rider to Lev 19:28 suggesting that it was OK with Him providing the markings were of the "menorah" or some such

As I pointed out before, this verse has absolutly nothing to do tatoos. It has to do with cutting and burning ones self for the purpose of the dead. Nowhere in scripture does it say that we cannot have tatoos. To say that it does is to be adding to scripture.

Also, as pointed out before by some others, even if this verse did say this, should we be bound by it? If yes, then none of us should shave our beards, eat pork, do any work on saturday, or a number of other things. Are these also sins?

We are no longer bound by these old laws. The writer of hebrews tells us that with the new covanent, the old covanent will vanish:

"In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away."
(Hebrews 8:13)

It is true that Matthew 5:18 tells us that the law will not pass away untill it is fulfilled, but Matthew 5:17 tells us that is is Jesus, not us, who is to fulfill the law.

In all things, remember the words of Paul:

"But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter."
(Romans 7:6)

TasManOfGod · Nov 13, 2006

Like anything God says is inappropriate for us we are ensnared if we ignore Him or try to rationalize our own behavior. Tattoos are no different.

BoranJarami · Nov 13, 2006

So it is a sin to eat with gentiles? To work on the sabbeth? According to the books of law these are sins. Jesus did them, so did he sin? Absolutly not.

I never ignored what God said. God said we are no longer bound to the law [Romans 7:6]. God said in Leviticus 19:28 not to burn or cut ourselves for the dead (nothing about tatoos) [Leviticus 19:28]. God said that it is best to do good instead of being restricted by the law [Matthew 12:10-12]. God said it is Jesus and not us who are to follow the law [Matthew 5:17-18]. God said that the law was only a shadow of what we have now [Hebrews 10:1]. God said all these things. Who is it that is ignoring God on this issue? Who is it that is rationalizing their behavior? It is not I. I only have repeated the word of God. Then who is it? God? I think not.

TheDag · Nov 13, 2006

TasManOfGod said:
Like anything God says is inappropriate for us we are ensnared if we ignore Him or try to rationalize our own behavior. Tattoos are no different.

Funny though how you want to rationalize away all the other verses in Lev 19 but insist that verse 28 is about tattoos when it isn't and insist people follow that. So instructions to you are to not shave and to get rid of all clothing of a mixed blend. I don't think that Lev 19 is to be ignored but I do however believe that we must put it in context and that the lessons for us to learn aren't just following the verses as written. They were written to a specific people with specific instructions for them. We are not a part of that people group but we can still learn from it.

TasManOfGod · Nov 15, 2006

Christians are of the "people group" that God was referring to in the Law -that is we are His people -He just uses a different method to communicate with us but the message is the same.
Now true there are some aspects of his talk to the Children of Israel that were specific to them but much is universal -tattoos fall into that category.

BoranJarami · Nov 15, 2006

How do you diferentiate between the two kinds of commands? How do you know what was only for Israel and what was for Christians as well?

Lumen · Nov 15, 2006

BoranJarami said:
So it is a sin to eat with gentiles? To work on the sabbeth? According to the books of law these are sins. Jesus did them, so did he sin? Absolutly not.

I never ignored what God said. God said we are no longer bound to the law [Romans 7:6]. God said in Leviticus 19:28 not to burn or cut ourselves for the dead (nothing about tatoos) [Leviticus 19:28]. God said that it is best to do good instead of being restricted by the law [Matthew 12:10-12]. God said it is Jesus and not us who are to follow the law [Matthew 5:17-18]. God said that the law was only a shadow of what we have now [Hebrews 10:1]. God said all these things. Who is it that is ignoring God on this issue? Who is it that is rationalizing their behavior? It is not I. I only have repeated the word of God. Then who is it? God? I think not.

Jesus didn't work on the sabbath. He was a Jew, he wouldn't have anyway.

BoranJarami said:
How do you diferentiate between the two kinds of commands? How do you know what was only for Israel and what was for Christians as well?

Well the law was for the Jews only. We Christians are gentiles (non-Jews) so we are not under the law. But I strongly believe we can glorify God by observing it.

TasManOfGod · Nov 15, 2006

BoranJarami said:
How do you diferentiate between the two kinds of commands? How do you know what was only for Israel and what was for Christians as well?

When there is no other overiding factor -ie The Cross was a replacement for the sacrifice in the temple.

BoranJarami · Nov 15, 2006

Jesus didn't work on the sabbath. He was a Jew, he wouldn't have anyway.

He most certainly did. On a number of occasions he healed on the sabbath, once even mixeing mud to do it. In response he never said that what he was doing was not work, he instead asked which was better, to not work on the sabbath or heal.

Well the law was for the Jews only. We Christians are gentiles (non-Jews) so we are not under the law. But I strongly believe we can glorify God by observing it.

How does it glorify God to not shave your beard or wear cloths made from different materials? The law neither brings glory to God, nor does it save man. Paul told us that the purpose of the law was to show us that we are sinners (Romans 7:7). It is not good to use the law to glorify God because as the writer of Hebrews tells us, the law was only a shadow of what was to come (Hebrews 10:1). Therefore it is better to glorify God not with the shadow but the fullness which we were given To us by the Christ.

The law said what meat we could eat and when and how to worship, but we are told in the new covanent:

"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ."
(Colossians 2:16-17)

BoranJarami · Nov 15, 2006

When there is no other overiding factor -ie The Cross was a replacement for the sacrifice in the temple.

All of the old covanent was overriden by the new. We are told that we have been given a new covenant and that God has made old covanent to decay (Hebrews 8:13). Also we must remember that the law was only a shadow of what Jesus was bringing (Hebrews 10:1). Why should we be bound to the shadow and not to the full image?

TasManOfGod · Nov 15, 2006

BoranJarami said:
All of the old covanent was overriden by the new. We are told that we have been given a new covenant and that God has made old covanent to decay (Hebrews 8:13). Also we must remember that the law was only a shadow of what Jesus was bringing (Hebrews 10:1). Why should we be bound to the shadow and not to the full image?

No God has not changed -He has just has given us a different way of showing His love for us. If He once thought tattoos were unholy He still thinks they are unholy

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