Talking to Satan

ViaCrucis · Mar 12, 2020

Tellyontellyon said:
It seems there is a bit of a spectrum of opinion as to whether Satan is a real, objective being or a personification of our own worst qualities?
I read the word 'liberal' being used, is liberal connected with the more metaphorical understanding of the Bible?

It depends. I'd say the idea that the devil isn't literal is more of a modernistic, deconstructionist approach.

However the mainstream Christian position is that angels exist, and some angels somehow fell (how, when, why, etc is unknown), and so they are fallen creatures (in a similar way that human beings are also fallen creatures). These fallen angels are known as demons (from the Greek daimon, a generic term for "spirits") or devils (from the Greek diabolos, meaning "accuser" or "slanderer". The "chief" of these fallen angels is called "the devil" or Satan (Hebrew ha-shaytan, "the accuser").

The Bible says remarkably very little on the subject. In the Old Testament there are, a handful of times, a reference to "unclean spirits" and also to "Satan". Satan in the Old Testament seems to have a kind of prosecutorial role. In modern Judaism Satan is regarded as a prosecuting attorney, not an evil enemy of God's people, but rather serves God in a somewhat antagonistic way. That's the view Judaism has come to view things, but historically views were more diverse.

There are a multitude of non-biblical texts that were written in the Second Temple period, these can be helpful in seeing what sorts of ideas were present within Judaism in that period (and since Christianity showed up near the end of the Second Temple period, that is important for historical context) In many of these there are rebellious, fallen angels, but the name of their leader isn't always the same. But these ideas of fallen angels, and that a leader of these fallen angels being Satan, show up in this period. So by the time the New Testament is written, in the religious ideas of the earliest Christians, these ideas were common, widespread, and so early Christians simply operate with this as an assumption. The writers of the New Testament never bother to explain the devils, but simply assumes their existence, and presumes that the readers of the texts will know what is being talked about.

-CryptoLutheran

peepnklown · Mar 15, 2020

Tellyontellyon said:
But should we also talk to, remonstrate with Satan. Should we say to Satan that we've seen what he's up to, and identify his activities as a way to avoid getting sucked into something wrong?
Is that something you usually do in Christianity?

Your first step is to research the origins of Satan from the Hebrew Bible. For example, there is a difference between "the satan" (ha-satan) who appears in the Tanakh (Hebrew Bible) who works for God (Yahweh) and "satan" which is simply a Hebrew term for "adversary." This general Hebrew term is used throughout the Tanakh (Hebrew Bible) to refer to humans who were adversaries against whomever.
For example, Numbers 22:22, describes an Angel of God (Yahweh) being a 'satan' against Balaam.
The Septuagint translation does not do the Hebrew term justice, FYI.
I can agree that the modern view of Satan is definitely man-made since it has no foundation from the Tanakh (Hebrew Bible).

So, if we look to the Tanakh (Hebrew Bible) then the 'temptation of Christ' tale is seen through it's proper eyes; just like Job, Jesus was tested by "the satan" (ha-satan) who again, works for God (Yahweh); aka, "sons of God" (bene haelohim).

JackRT · Mar 15, 2020

peepnklown said:
Your first step is to research the origins of Satan from the Hebrew Bible. For example, there is a difference between "the satan" (ha-satan) who appears in the Tanakh (Hebrew Bible) who works for God (Yahweh) and "satan" which is simply a Hebrew term for "adversary." This general Hebrew term is used throughout the Tanakh (Hebrew Bible) to refer to humans who were adversaries against whomever.
For example, Numbers 22:22, describes an Angel of God (Yahweh) being a 'satan' against Balaam.
The Septuagint translation does not do the Hebrew term justice, FYI.

God didn't create Satan, man did. Satan (ha'shaitan) occurs by name in the Old Testament in the parable we call the Book of Job, and here it's clear that the angel Satan is not the Devil! The Devil is supposedly banished from the presence of God, yet in Job, Satan is allowed to talk with and to come and go from God's presence and on a mission for God yet! What's going on? Satan here is not "the Devil" but sort of God's prosecuting attorney, an unwelcome character but not an evil one. There is a very common perception that the 'Lucifer' in Isaiah 14:12ff refers to Satan, the supernatural personification of evil. This misconception comes from two sources. The first is wishful thinking in the sense that it is nice to think that 'the Enemy' will get his come-uppance eventually. The second has to do with the old caution that scripture is to be read only 'in context'. This requires going back and reading all of Isaiah 13 and the earlier verses in Isaiah 14. When this is done we suddenly realize that scripture is not speaking of a supernatural Satan at all but of a Babylonian king with an immense ego. Read Isaiah 14: " 4 you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon:" What follows is a long rant against this oppressive king filled with numerous reference to his human nature like Isaiah 14: "16 Those who see you stare at you, they ponder your fate: Is this the man who shook the earth and made kingdoms tremble, 17 the man who made the world a desert, who overthrew its cities and would not let his captives go home?" This passage is in no way a reference to Satan or the devil. The Jews did not originally believe in devils but they picked up this concept during the Babylonian Exile from the Persians who followed Zoroastrianism. The Zoroastrians believed in both a god of good (Ahura-Mazda) and a god of evil (Ahrulman) engaged in a cosmic struggle. The Jews picked up and ran with this idea. It was easy to cast YHWH in the role of the God of good. They took also the angel ha'shaitan (Satan) in the book of Job and recast that character as Satan the near divine force of evil. Up to that time, their concept of God was of a being responsible for everything, both good and evil. Isaiah 45:”7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.” is just one quote that demonstrates this. The Jews never connected Satan to the serpent in the Garden of Eden. It was the second-century Christian martyr, Justin of Samaria, who was first to argue that Satan appeared as a serpent to tempt Adam and Eve to disobey God. It was also the third-century Christian philosopher Origen of Alexandria who was the first to suggest that Lucifer actually was Satan or the devil.

I can agree that the modern view of Satan is definitely man-made since it has no foundation from the Tanakh (Hebrew Bible).

So, if we look to the Tanakh (Hebrew Bible) then the 'temptation of Christ' tale is seen through it's proper eyes; just like Job, Jesus was tested by "the satan" (ha-satan) who again, works for God (Yahweh); aka, "sons of God" (bene haelohim).

Lady Bug · Apr 11, 2020

I don't talk to Satan directly, I ask the Lord to rebuke him for me.

Caliban · Apr 29, 2020

HTacianas said:
No, that's not something a Christian does.

If a person were to "talk to Satan" the answers would be lies. When we see good, such as giving to the poor, Satan represents the opposite, such as stealing from the poor. When we show mercy as good, mercy for evil is the opposite.

There's too much of that going around as it is.

In Genesis, the serpent told the truth--assuming it was the devil.

Hawkins · May 1, 2020

Tellyontellyon said:
Hello, I'm a Buddhist but not sure what to believe at the moment, but I'm exploring Christianity and praying for Jesus to guide me. I'm trying to be open minded.
I read in the Bible that Jesus was talking to Satan in the desert...
When praying it is usually about talking to God/Jesus and listening for an answer.

But should we also talk to, remonstrate with Satan. Should we say to Satan that we've seen what he's up to, and identify his activities as a way to avoid getting sucked into something wrong?
Is that something you usually do in Christianity?

It's a dangerous act to try to interact with the said entity as his intelligence is much higher than yours. It's like a child trying to get something from a sneakily sophisticated adult.

pescador · May 1, 2020

Tellyontellyon said:
Hello, I'm a Buddhist but not sure what to believe at the moment, but I'm exploring Christianity and praying for Jesus to guide me. I'm trying to be open minded.
I read in the Bible that Jesus was talking to Satan in the desert...
When praying it is usually about talking to God/Jesus and listening for an answer.

But should we also talk to, remonstrate with Satan. Should we say to Satan that we've seen what he's up to, and identify his activities as a way to avoid getting sucked into something wrong?
Is that something you usually do in Christianity?

Yes. One can talk to Satan and any other demon just as Jesus did.

Caliban · May 1, 2020

pescador said:
Yes. One can talk to Satan and any other demon just as Jesus did.

No you can't--prove it!

pescador · May 1, 2020

R.Miller said:
No you can't--prove it!

I don't have to prove anything to you. One can talk to Satan or any demon any time s/he wants. Why don't you prove to me that one can't?

Caliban · May 1, 2020

pescador said:
I don't have to prove anything to you. One can talk to Satan or any demon any time s/he wants. Why don't you prove to me that one can't?

That is not how claims work. You made a rather controversial and outlandish claim. You actually need to support such a claim with evidence. Especially if you are giving someone advice who may believe you without having just cause.

I don't have the burden of proof--there is no reason to think a person can converse with supernatural spirits. Forget the fact that you are just assuming they exist. When I said "no you can't," I am showing you how ridiculous a claim sounds without evidence. You need to back up your claims.

pescador · May 1, 2020

R.Miller said:
That is not how claims work. You made a rather controversial and outlandish claim. You actually need to support such a claim with evidence. Especially if you are giving someone advice who may believe you without having just cause.

I don't have the burden of proof--there is no reason to think a person can converse with supernatural spirits. Forget the fact that you are just assuming they exist. When I said "no you can't," I am showing you how ridiculous a claim sounds without evidence. You need to back up your claims.

I don't have to do anything of the kind. Who are you to tell me what I need to do or not do? Why don't you prove to me that one can't talk to Satan?

Tellyontellyon · May 2, 2020

It seems to me that you might both be right... I mean when Jesus spoke to Satan he really heard him and saw him... what I'm talking about is something more ordinary than that... a feeling of being tempted... and the recognition that this may be Satan, then it might be appropriate to ask Satan to leave you alone, in the name of Jesus.
Or is it better not to address Satan at all, and just focus on asking Jesus's protection?
* Has any of that worked for anybody? Share your testimony please. How was your temptation overcome?

pescador · May 2, 2020

Tellyontellyon said:
It seems to me that you might both be right... I mean when Jesus spoke to Satan he really heard him and saw him... what I'm talking about is something more ordinary than that... a feeling of being tempted... and the recognition that this may be Satan, then it might be appropriate to ask Satan to leave you alone, in the name of Jesus.
Or is it better not to address Satan at all, and just focus on asking Jesus's protection?
* Has any of that worked for anybody? Share your testimony please. How was your temptation overcome?

I had a problem with rage. It came up at times when it wasn't necessary and is not really a part of my character. Recently I spoke to Satan against it and banished the demon from within me. Since that time rage hasn't reappeared. That is just one of the times that I have spoken against Satan and other demons.

The only reason I can think of that people don't speak to/argue with Satan is that they are afraid of him. Jesus spoke to Satan; the apostles spoke to demons; I'm in Christ so I speak to them also.

George95 · May 2, 2020

Talking to Satan won’t get you anywhere, cause he won’t give up. Rebuke him and tell him to get behind you, and pray that the Lord will protect you.

pescador · May 2, 2020

George95 said:
Talking to Satan won’t get you anywhere, cause he won’t give up. Rebuke him and tell him to get behind you, and pray that the Lord will protect you.

I know that the Lord is already protecting me. All I have to do is to continue to wear the full armor of God.

John Helpher · May 3, 2020

Tellyontellyon said:
I read in the Bible that Jesus was talking to Satan in the desert...

Yeah, but he didn't seek out Satan. It was the other way around. One way or another we're all gonna have to face temptation, but that doesn't mean we should seek it out. It will find us well enough on its own.

Tellyontellyon said:
When praying it is usually about talking to God/Jesus and listening for an answer.

Healthy prayer should include a combination of talking and listening, though quite often it's the listening that is more important. The idea is to quiet your mind and to ask God to communicate with you. IT's something that you'll get better at with practice, as it's often difficult to work out the difference between our own thoughts and what God may be trying to communicate to us. You may get a thought, like song lyrics or words, or you may get an image of some kind all of which you did not consciously choose to think of. I tend to imagine a blank, white background and let the space be filled with whatever God wants to communicate.

However, the best way to explore Christianity is to look at the teachings of Jesus. Read through the 4 gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John) and every time Jesus gives instructions to his followers, make a note of it on a list. When you've finished reading through the 4 books, go back through the list you made and ask yourself if you want to practice those teachings. If yes, then you're on "the way" of Jesus. If not, then Christianity is not for you.

Talking to Satan

Confessional Lutheran

rabbi peepnklown

Well-Known Member

Thankful For My Confirmation

Well-Known Member

Member

Wise old man

Well-Known Member

Wise old man

Well-Known Member

Wise old man

Well-Known Member

Wise old man

CF Tech Master

Wise old man

John 3:16

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency