Surest Way to Face Marijuana Charges in New York: Be Black or Hispanic

[SummerMadness]

Surest Way to Face Marijuana Charges in New York: Be Black or Hispanic

They sit in courtroom pews, almost all of them young black men, waiting their turn before a New York City judge to face a charge that no longer exists in some states: possessing marijuana. They tell of smoking in a housing project hallway, or of being in a car with a friend who was smoking, or of lighting up a Black & Mild cigar the police mistake for a blunt.

There are many ways to be arrested on marijuana charges, but one pattern has remained true through years of piecemeal policy changes in New York: The primary targets are black and Hispanic people.

With crime dropping and the Police Department under pressure to justify the number of low-level arrests it makes, a senior police official recently testified to lawmakers that there was a simple reason for the racial imbalance: More residents in predominantly black and Hispanic neighborhoods were calling to complain about marijuana.

An analysis by The Times found that fact did not fully explain the racial disparity. Instead, among neighborhoods where people called about marijuana at the same rate, the police almost always made arrests at a higher rate in the area with more black residents, The Times found.

 

[Saucy]

The surest way not to get charged with marijuana possession...don't smoke any!

 

[Humble me Lord]

Awwww, you beat me to it Saucy, was thinking the exact same thing.

 

[HereIStand]

I'm surprised the police would bother with pot. I remember being on basketball court in a black neighborhood in Chicago in the 1980s. Guys were passing around a joint in plain view on the court.

 

[SummerMadness]

The surest way not to get charged with marijuana possession...don't smoke any!

Awwww, you beat me to it Saucy, was thinking the exact same thing.

The law is not being enforced equally, your statement completely ignores the issue because quite frankly, when one is unaffected by an issue, dismissing it or ignoring becomes your default position.

 

[Humble me Lord]

I'm not denying that racial disparities occur in policing, not what I said at all.

And you are right, it doesn't affect me because I don't smoke marijuana.

"Indians! Indians were the issue in those days. I can assure you, gentlemen, there is nothing quite so grotesque as the meeting of a child with a bullet; or an entire village slaughtered while sleeping. That was the government's resolution of that particular issue and I have seen nothing in its behavior since then that would persuade me that it has gained either in wisdom, common sense, or humanity."

COLONEL WILLIAM LUDLOW

 

[SummerMadness]

I'm not denying that racial disparities occur in policing, not what I said at all.

And you are right, it doesn't affect me because I don't smoke marijuana.

"Indians! Indians were the issue in those days. I can assure you, gentlemen, there is nothing quite so grotesque as the meeting of a child with a bullet; or an entire village slaughtered while sleeping. That was the government's resolution of that particular issue and I have seen nothing in its behavior since then that would persuade me that it has gained either in wisdom, common sense, or humanity."

COLONEL WILLIAM LUDLOW

I do not smoke marijuana either, but telling people to not smoke marijuana does not change the unequal treatment, which is the issue. I am sure I can take the discussion in the direction of drug laws being ridiculous and how we should have learned that policing marijuana is the same as policing alcohol (which also resulted in death and organized crime), but the main issue is how drug prohibition is policed.

 

[Saucy]

What you're ignoring is that the whole problem can be dealt with if people were to simply stop breaking the law. All these cries of racism from the police fall on deaf ears because I have no sympathy for people who break the law.

Ooh, you got shot because you robbed a store and pointed a gun at police?! No, that's not racism. That's "if you hadn't robbed the darn store, you wouldn't of been in that position!" If black communities weren't such crime dens, then there would be less need for cops to patrol those areas.

The solution is simple. Rather than whining about blacks getting caught for their crimes, let's try to do something to stop them from committing crimes in the first place. Then I bet there will be less cop shootings, pot busts, etc. Be accountable to yourself and live a better life.

 

[SummerMadness]

What you're ignoring is that the whole problem can be dealt with if people were to simply stop breaking the law. All these cries of racism from the police fall on deaf ears because I have no sympathy for people who break the law.

How are you even arguing this logic with a straight face? For instance, you break the law all the time, I'm pretty sure you speed. Most people drive above the speed limit, but if the police are only pulling over certain people for speeding, while not pulling over others, that's a problem, that is unequal treatment. One group should not received more scrutiny or punishment due to their skin color.

Everyone breaks the law, certain groups should not be targeted for higher rates of law enforcement. Simple.

Ooh, you got shot because you robbed a store and pointed a gun at police?! No, that's not racism. That's "if you hadn't robbed the darn store, you wouldn't of been in that position!" If black communities weren't such crime dens, then there would be less need for cops to patrol those areas.

And if you read the story, you would recognize that the unequal treatment is not due to "crime dens." And you also miss the point that if a white person robs a store and a black person robs a store, they should both be punished. As it stands, that is not what is happening.

The solution is simple. Rather than whining about blacks getting caught for their crimes, let's try to do something to stop them from committing crimes in the first place. Then I bet there will be less cop shootings, pot busts, etc. Be accountable to yourself and live a better life.

You're making the assumption that black and Hispanic people use marijuana at higher rates than white people, they all use marijuana at roughly the same rate, so black and Hispanic people should not be arrested at eight times the rate if they're equally likely to use drugs. Even if they used at a lower rate, they would still account for most of the arrests, so your argument does not hold.

 

[Saucy]

Yeah, how dare I talk about personal responsibility. No, I don't speed. It actually upsets people who ride with me, but I used to be a truck driver and took many courses in defensive driving. I always follow the laws, and thus, I've never had a ticket and never gotten into an accident. But if I do get a ticket, I deserved it! I'm not going to cry racism and or think I'm above such things. I broke the law, I deserve the consequences.

There's nothing wrong with saying people should just not do drugs or commit crime. It's that easy. Why people like you want to excuse crime is beyond me. If you don't want to do the time, don't do the crime.

 

[SummerMadness]

Yeah, how dare I talk about personal responsibility. No, I don't speed. It actually upsets people who ride with me, but I used to be a truck driver and took many courses in defensive driving. I always follow the laws, and thus, I've never had a ticket and never gotten into an accident. But if I do get a ticket, I deserved it! I'm not going to cry racism and or think I'm above such things. I broke the law, I deserve the consequences.

There's nothing wrong with saying people should just not do drugs or commit crime. It's that easy. Why people like you want to excuse crime is beyond me. If you don't want to do the time, don't do the crime.

Again, you are ignoring the problem, is it deliberate? If people are speeding, and the police only stop women, but leave men alone, is that a problem? Saying speeding is wrong and you get what you deserve ignores the unequal enforcement. Do you consider unequal enforcement a problem?

 

[Saucy]

There is no problem. You break the law, you pay the consequences. If you don't speed in the first place, then you're not a 'victim' of unequal enforcement. There are all kinds reasons why certain groups might get busted more for different crimes. More white people are shot and killed by the police than blacks, but I guess white people deserve it?

Again, the answer is simple and it's universal. Don't break the law.

 

[SummerMadness]

There is no problem. You break the law, you pay the consequences. If you don't speed in the first place, then you're not a 'victim' of unequal enforcement. There are all kinds reasons why certain groups might get busted more for different crimes.

Again, the answer is simple and it's universal. Don't break the law.

Violating the Fourteenth Amendment is against the law, so I do not see how you can argue that is acceptable behavior, especially because you seem to be so up on your law and order.

More white people are shot and killed by the police than blacks, but I guess white people deserve it?

In addition, you should look into the difference between proportion and rate, we're talking about rates here.

 

[Hank77]

The solution is simple. Rather than whining about blacks getting caught for their crimes, let's try to do something to stop them from committing crimes in the first place. Then I bet there will be less cop shootings, pot busts, etc. Be accountable to yourself and live a better life.

If whites are doing the same law breaking at the same rate just not being arrested and prosecuted, shouldn't you be lecturing whites about breaking the law?

 

[Saucy]

Violating the Fourteenth Amendment is against the law, so I do not see how you can argue that is acceptable behavior, especially because you seem to be so up on your law and order.

In addition, you should look into the difference between proportion and rate, we're talking about rates here.

Yeah, the proportion of blacks committing crimes is horrendous. Blacks, only 13% of the population, commit 52% of the murders. They lead nearly every crime statistic there is. Unfair treatment? No! Again, if they stop with the crime, then these crime dens won't be policed as much.

• 
  

  [*]The evidence suggests that if there is police racial bias in arrests it is negligible. Victim and witness surveys show that police arrest violent criminals in close proportion to the rates at which criminals of different races commit violent crimes.
  [*]There are dramatic race differences in crime rates. Asians have the lowest rates, followed by whites, and then Hispanics. Blacks have notably high crime rates. This pattern holds true for virtually all crime categories and for virtually all age groups.
  [*]In 2013, a black was six times more likely than a non-black to commit murder, and 12 times more likely to murder someone of another race than to be murdered by someone of another race.
  [*]In 2013, of the approximately 660,000 crimes of interracial violence that involved blacks and whites, blacks were the perpetrators 85 percent of the time. This meant a black person was 27 times more likely to attack a white person than vice versa. A Hispanic was eight times more likely to attack a white person than vice versa.
  [*]In 2014 in New York City, a black was 31 times more likely than a white to be arrested for murder, and a Hispanic was 12.4 times more likely. For the crime of “shooting” — defined as firing a bullet that hits someone — a black was 98.4 times more likely than a white to be arrested, and a Hispanic was 23.6 times more likely.
  [*]If New York City were all white, the murder rate would drop by 91 percent, the robbery rate by 81 percent, and the shootings rate by 97 percent.
  [*]In an all-white Chicago, murder would decline 90 percent, rape by 81 percent, and robbery by 90 percent.
  [*]In 2015, a black person was 2.45 times more likely than a white person to be shot and killed by the police. A Hispanic person was 1.21 times more likely. These figures are well within what would be expected given race differences in crime rates and likelihood to resist arrest.
  [*]In 2015, police killings of blacks accounted for approximately 4 percent of homicides of blacks. Police killings of unarmed blacks accounted for approximately 0.6 percent of homicides of blacks. The overwhelming majority of black homicide victims (93 percent from 1980 to 2008) were killed by blacks.
  [*]Both violent and non-violent crime has been declining in the United States since a high in 1993. 2015 saw a disturbing rise in murder in major American cities that some observers associated with “depolicing” in response to intense media and public scrutiny of police activity.

https://www.amren.com/archives/reports/the-color-of-crime-2016-revised-edition/

When you look at the actual statistics without being biased to scream "RACISM!" because blacks get arrested more than whites, it's very telling. Blacks get arrested more than whites because they commit MUCH more crimes than whites. And if they don't like that, then hold blacks accountable for their actions and tell them to stop committing crime!

 

[Saucy]

If whites are doing the same law breaking at the same rate just not being arrested and prosecuted, shouldn't you be lecturing whites about breaking the law?

Yes, my statement stands for ALL people. I already said it's universal. If you don't want to go to jail or get a ticket, don't commit the crime. It doesn't matter if you're black or white. But, as the statistics show, blacks commit a MUCH higher proportion of crime than whites.

 

[SummerMadness]

Yeah, the proportion of blacks committing crimes is horrendous. Blacks, only 13% of the population, commit 52% of the murders. They lead nearly every crime statistic there is. Unfair treatment? No! Again, if they stop with the crime, then these crime dens won't be policed as much.
https://www.amren.com/archives/reports/the-color-of-crime-2016-revised-edition/

When you look at the actual statistics without being biased to scream "RACISM!" because blacks get arrested more than whites, it's very telling. Blacks get arrested more than whites because they commit MUCH more crimes than whites. And if they don't like that, then hold blacks accountable for their actions and tell them to stop committing crime!

Did you miss that the subject of this thread relates to marijuana? Really, spend some time reading the OP before you go off on the rails about "black crime." Please, for once, stay on topic.

 

[SummerMadness]

Yes, my statement stands for ALL people. I already said it's universal. If you don't want to go to jail or get a ticket, don't commit the crime. It doesn't matter if you're black or white. But, as the statistics show, blacks commit a MUCH higher proportion of crime than whites.

Unequal enforcement violates the Fourteenth Amendment, why do you think it is okay to violate the Constitution?

 

[Saucy]

LOL. I am on topic. Blacks smoking and getting caught with marijuana is a CRIME. They get caught and get in trouble for committing a CRIME. If they don't want to get caught and get in trouble, don't commit CRIME. There is no unequal treatment when blacks commit crime at much, much higher levels than any other race. That means more police are in these areas of crime, and bust more people of color for breaking the law.

As my source said: "The evidence suggests that if there is police racial bias in arrests it is negligible. Victim and witness surveys show that police arrest violent criminals in close proportion to the rates at which criminals of different races commit violent crimes."

This is certainly the case for non-violent crime as well, such as drugs.

 

[SummerMadness]

LOL. I am on topic. Blacks smoking and getting caught with marijuana is a CRIME. They get caught and get in trouble for committing a CRIME. If they don't want to get caught and get in trouble, don't commit CRIME. There is no unequal treatment when blacks commit crime at much, much higher levels than any other race. That means more police are in these areas of crime, and bust more people of color for breaking the law.

I don't know why you're only focusing on black people, the article also points to the unequal enforcement affecting Hispanics. And if you can stay on topic, marijuana usage between different racial groups is not different, so there should not be a higher rate of people being arrested if they commit crime at the same rate. Why is that so difficult to understand. You're trying to go off on this wild tangent about "black crime dens" and violent crime when the topic is marijuana use. And if we're talking about crime, it's a nonviolent crime, so putting the word into capitals does not change that fact.

As my source said: "The evidence suggests that if there is police racial bias in arrests it is negligible. Victim and witness surveys show that police arrest violent criminals in close proportion to the rates at which criminals of different races commit violent crimes."

And that quote has nothing to do with this topic, I do not know why you keep ignoring that point.

This is certainly the case for non-violent crime as well, such as drugs.

It is not, something you ignorantly say when the article and statistics say otherwise does not make it so. You can't extrapolate onto other statistics, especially when we have those statistics that show that blacks, white, and Hispanics use marijuana at similar rates.