'Sup brothers (and sisters) - Some questions about MJ

[AlexB23]

Hello folks. How is it going? I am a Christian (recently converted to Catholicism from nondenominational in 2022), and am wondering what your favorite Bible translations are, and what your thoughts are on traditional services and attire (tefillin, tassels) in MJ compared to reform Messianic Judaism. Also, what are your thoughts on Catholicism or Protestantism? From what I know, MJs are Christians who have Jewish traditions, or Jews who believe in Jesus as the Messiah.

 

[AlexB23]

What do you think, @daq ?

 

[daq]

Hello folks. How is it going? I am a Christian (recently converted to Catholicism from nondenominational in 2022), and am wondering what your favorite Bible translations are, and what your thoughts are on traditional services and attire (tefillin, tassels) in MJ compared to reform Messianic Judaism. Also, what are your thoughts on Catholicism or Protestantism? From what I know, MJs are Christians who have Jewish traditions, or Jews who believe in Jesus as the Messiah.

What do you think, @daq ?

Are you sure you are not mixing up Reform Judaism with Messianic Judaism? There is of course a Reform Judaism but I have not heard of a Reform Messianic Judaism. However Reform Judaism does not have the same messianic concepts as MJ.

Here is a quick and easy to understand synopsis type article, (essentially just brushing the surface).

The Messianic Concept in Reform Judaism | My Jewish Learning

As Reform Judaism continues to evolve in order to respond to the practical and philosophical demands of modernity, its messianic concept, too, may expand to offer a new vision and hope of redemption.

www.myjewishlearning.com

 

[AlexB23]

Are you sure you are not mixing up Reform Judaism with Messianic Judaism? There is of course a Reform Judaism but I have not heard of a Reform Messianic Judaism. However Reform Judaism does not have the same messianic concepts as MJ.

Here is a quick and easy to understand synopsis type article, (essentially just brushing the surface).

The Messianic Concept in Reform Judaism | My Jewish Learning

As Reform Judaism continues to evolve in order to respond to the practical and philosophical demands of modernity, its messianic concept, too, may expand to offer a new vision and hope of redemption.

www.myjewishlearning.com

Well, I know that some Messianic Jews wrap tefillin, which is more traditional, while others do not, which is more liberal.

 

[daq]

Well, I know that some Messianic Jews wrap tefillin, which is more traditional, while others do not, which is more liberal.

For that my suggestion would be to pray for guidance, study the four passages involved, and seek out the meaning of the commands involved in those passages. Who will be your teacher and guide for such an upright endeavor?

 

[AlexB23]

For that my suggestion would be to pray for guidance, study the four passages involved, and seek out the meaning of the commands involved in those passages. Who will be your teacher and guide for such an upright endeavor?

Jesus is my teacher. I am just curious about the other denominations and stuff.

 

[daq]

Jesus is my teacher. I am just curious about the other denominations and stuff.

The Teacher of Righteousness says this:

John 6:45 KJV
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

Notice it says prophets, plural, so this is not only Yeshayah, (Isaiah), but also another Prophet.

Isaiah 54:13 KJV
13 And all thy children shall be taught of the LORD; and great shall be the peace of thy children.

And by the following it is surely also Renewed Covenant language:

Jeremiah 31:31-34 KJV
31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Therefore:

Deuteronomy 11:18-21 KJV
18 Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlets between your eyes.
19 And ye shall teach them your children, speaking of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
20 And thou shalt write them upon the door posts of thine house, and upon thy gates:
21 That your days may be multiplied, and the days of your children, in the land which the LORD sware unto your fathers to give them, as the days of heaven upon the earth.

 

[AlexB23]

The Teacher of Righteousness says this:

John 6:45 KJV
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

Notice it says prophets, plural, so this is not only Yeshayah, (Isaiah), but also another Prophet.

Isaiah 54:13 KJV
13 And all thy children shall be taught of the LORD; and great shall be the peace of thy children.

And by the following it is surely also Renewed Covenant language:

Jeremiah 31:31-34 KJV
31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Therefore:

Deuteronomy 11:18-21 KJV
18 Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlets between your eyes.
19 And ye shall teach them your children, speaking of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
20 And thou shalt write them upon the door posts of thine house, and upon thy gates:
21 That your days may be multiplied, and the days of your children, in the land which the LORD sware unto your fathers to give them, as the days of heaven upon the earth.

So, in other words, the OT law is still followed by Messianic Jews, compared to Christians, who have dropped most of the OT laws such as eating pork and stuff?

 

[daq]

So, in other words, the OT law is still followed by Messianic Jews, compared to Christians, who have dropped most of the OT laws such as eating pork and stuff?

Yes, for the most part, that would be correct.

 

[AlexB23]

Yes, for the most part, that would be correct.

So, do you wear a yarmulke, tassels or tefillin as you are a MJ?

 

[daq]

So, do you wear a yarmulke, tassels or tefillin as you are a MJ?

I do not wear a yarmulke. Tefillin I have already explained by example: the meaning in my understanding is inward and supernal, and tzitzit, (tassels), would be understood in the same manner in my view.

Moreover the tekelet-blue in the tzitzit is the same as the blue in the all blue miyl, (Exo 28:31), which color represents the zeal of the Most High, (Isa 59:17), and our zeal for Him and His Word. One therefore may have the zeal in the four wings of his curve, and thus the blue: but if not then the same will likely rather end up with four wings of a fowl in his curve, (Dan 7:6).

By the same thinking the one with a frontlet between his eyes, that his eye may be single as the Master says, his whole body will be full of light: for the illuminator-lamp of the body is the eye, (Mat 6:22), but the one without the frontlet between his eyes so as to focus clearly on the Word of the Most High will likely rather end up with the great horn of Yavan between his eyes, (prince of the power of the air, Dan 8:5, Eph 2:1-2).

Thus I have only two choices, either be taught of the Rabbonim of the Pharisees and the Talmud, or be taught of the Master who nailed their handwritten dogmas and decrees to the stake and was resurrected so as to confirm his Testimony: but the alternate choices you have mentioned in the OP are not options for me.

 

[AlexB23]

I do not wear a yarmulke. Tefillin I have already explained by example: the meaning in my understanding is inward and supernal, and tzitzit, (tassels), would be understood in the same manner in my view.

Moreover the tekelet-blue in the tzitzit is the same as the blue in the all blue miyl, (Exo 28:31), which color represents the zeal of the Most High, (Isa 59:17), and our zeal for Him and His Word. One therefore may have the zeal in the four wings of his curve, and thus the blue: but if not then the same will likely rather end up with four wings of a fowl in his curve, (Dan 7:6).

By the same thinking the one with a frontlet between his eyes, that his eye may be single as the Master says, his whole body will be full of light: for the illuminator-lamp of the body is the eye, (Mat 6:22), but the one without the frontlet between his eyes so as to focus clearly on the Word of the Most High will likely rather end up with the great horn of Yavan between his eyes, (prince of the power of the air, Dan 8:5, Eph 2:1-2).

Thus I have only two choices, either be taught of the Rabbonim of the Pharisees and the Talmud, or be taught of the Master who nailed their handwritten dogmas and decrees to the stake and was resurrected so as to confirm his Testimony: but the alternate choices you have mentioned in the OP are not options for me.

So, these Jewish garments are symbolic, and you do not wear them? @Soyeong wears tefillin. Also, what is the purpose of the frontlet?

 

[daq]

So, these Jewish garments are symbolic, and you do not wear them? @Soyeong wears tefillin. Also, what is the purpose of the frontlet?

To be clear, I do not presume to speak for all MJ's, there certainly are those who wear tzitzit and tefillin.

The outward "frontlet" concerning the tefillin is a box overlaid with leather which contains four passages of scripture wherein the commands are given to wear the tefillin, (according to Talmudic interpretations), one of which I already quoted from in Deuteronomy 11. The purpose, (according to Talmudic interpretations), is to fulfill the commandment, (according to Talmudic interpretations).

 

[AlexB23]

To be clear, I do not presume to speak for all MJ's, there certainly are those who wear tzitzit and tefillin.

The outward "frontlet" concerning the tefillin is a box overlaid with leather which contains four passages of scripture wherein the commands are given to wear the tefillin, (according to Talmudic interpretations), one of which I already quoted from in Deuteronomy 11. The purpose, (according to Talmudic interpretations), is to fulfill the commandment, (according to Talmudic interpretations).

I think I have watched a video of someone donning the box. It looks complicated.

 

[Yusuphhai]

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