Sumerian is much older than the biblical Flood

AV1611VET · Nov 28, 2016

Ken Behrens said:
They did not understand Him RIGHT. That is the point I am making. "Probably" is where the argument fails. You need certainty to contradict the findings of psychology and linguistic science, and that is what you are doing. God can do anything, of course, but your idea requires one miracle after another.

Okay ... nice chatting with you.

JackRT · Nov 28, 2016

AV1611VET said:
I believe the original language is Jacobean English, and that everyone on earth spoke it up to the time of the tower of Babel incident, when it was removed.

It returned in the 17th century just long enough to give us the King James Bible, and is now relegated to classical literature.

I am not sure whether to laugh or to cry.

JackRT · Nov 28, 2016

Jacobian English has its roots in Anglo-Saxon (Old German) and Medieval French with traces of Latin. Like all languages it is the product of an evolutionary process. Most European languages trace from a much older language known as Indo-Aryan IIRC.

AV1611VET · Nov 28, 2016

JackRT said:
Jacobian English has its roots in Anglo-Saxon (Old German) and Medieval French with traces of Latin. Like all languages it is the product of an evolutionary process. Most European languages trace from a much older language known as Indo-Aryan IIRC.

Yes, it scratched and clawed its way back into the limelight in the 17th century.

guyfriendly · Nov 29, 2016

AV1611VET said:
Genesis 10:8 And Cush begat Nimrod: he began to be a mighty one in the earth.

The "he" in that verse is speaking of Nimrod, not Cush.

I stand corrected.

Anyway, your explanation is one angle. What about the tablets in Sumer founded 9000 yrs back which was carbon dated as such and that is much before the floods?

AV1611VET · Nov 30, 2016

guyfriendly said:
What about the tablets in Sumer founded 9000 yrs back which was carbon dated as such and that is much before the floods?

What about them?

What if tomorrow I write HELLO on an old newspaper dated 1975?

Does that mean I wrote HELLO forty one years ago?

If tomorrow I write on stone that carbon dates to 9000 years ago, does that mean I was alive before the Flood?

And for the record, I thought carbon dating only works to some 5500 years or so?

guyfriendly · Nov 30, 2016

AV1611VET said:
What about them?

What if tomorrow I write HELLO on an old newspaper dated 1975?

Does that mean I wrote HELLO forty one years ago?

If tomorrow I write on stone that carbon dates to 9000 years ago, does that mean I was alive before the Flood?

And for the record, I thought carbon dating only works to some 5500 years or so?

I have nothing to say about this since it's only presupposition. One could argue from both views. BTW, the NT is carbon dated as well. ^^

AV1611VET · Nov 30, 2016

guyfriendly said:
I have nothing to say about this since it's only presupposition. One could argue from both views. BTW, the NT is carbon dated as well. ^^

Scientists should carbon date each other and see what comes out, instead of playing around with Litmus paper.

It took a real brainiac to leave a window open while cross-breeding an African honey bee with an European one, didn't it?

Ken Behrens · Nov 30, 2016

guyfriendly said:
I have nothing to say about this since it's only presupposition. One could argue from both views. BTW, the NT is carbon dated as well. ^^

I have not heard of your tablets, but many dated before the flood (because they had to dig/pump through flood waters to get to them), were written on clay and hardened after writing. You can tell the difference if it is written later, as the strokes must be pounded in and etch the edges of the rock. Some of my sheep bowls and tokens were among them, as were cylinder seals.

In all fairness, some say that the flood in question in the dig is not the flood of Noah, and this, of course cannot be proved. It was believed to be so in Jesus' time, since both Josephus and the Book of Jubilees state specifically that such a writing was left, later copied, and translated. I have a copy of a portion of it that I have translated myself from the Egyptian translation (at least I believe it to be so, based on the descriptions quoted, but of course, I cannot prove it so).

Any forensics lab can date ink, and can tell you that the hello is not form 1975.

AV1611VET · Nov 30, 2016

Ken Behrens said:
Any forensics lab can date ink, and can tell you that the hello is not form 1975.

What if the pen is from 1975?

Ken Behrens · Nov 30, 2016

AV1611VET said:
What if the pen is from 1975?

My understanding is that ink changes chemical composition as it dries, not as it sits int he pen. If you used it last year, it started drying last year (if it still came out), and that will show in the chemical analysis.

Strathos · Dec 5, 2016

JackRT said:
I am not sure whether to laugh or to cry.

I've engaged him on this before. IIRC I once got him to admit that parts of the Bible were originally written in Hebrew, which he then believes were translated to Jacobean English, and then translated to Hebrew again...

FrankDux · Dec 12, 2016

There was no literal flood

Ancient flood texts and creation epics are astronomy texts, not accounts of literal floods

I'm surprised this is still even a matter of debate

Ken Behrens · Dec 12, 2016

FrankDux said:
There was no literal flood

Ancient flood texts and creation epics are astronomy texts, not accounts of literal floods

I'm surprised this is still even a matter of debate

Please show the interpretation of the Biblical Flood this way.

FrankDux · Dec 12, 2016

" interpretation of the Biblical flood "

I have no interest in interpreting the Bible's flood narrative

I just know for a fact that the ancient texts referring to floods are all astronomy texts that deal with eclipses, this includes the " Creation Epics "

If they aren't referring to eclipses they are referring to the personal attributes of a god or ruler who is the personification of " the flood "

We could always do some language studies if you like

Ken Behrens · Dec 12, 2016

FrankDux said:
" interpretation of the Biblical flood "

I have no interest in interpreting the Bible's flood narrative

I just know for a fact that the ancient texts referring to floods are all astronomy texts that deal with eclipses, this includes the " Creation Epics "

If they aren't referring to eclipses they are referring to the personal attributes of a god or ruler who is the personification of " the flood "

We could always do some language studies if you like

I'd love to do some language studies. In fact, I already have. And I think you are wrong. So please display some evidence of your most unusual claim.

FrankDux · Dec 12, 2016

Oh, OK, goodness

What language databases would you like to use ?

I have my preferred ones, but I'll let you pick them

FrankDux · Dec 12, 2016

Well, my friend ?

Have you chosen which language database/s you would like to use ?

I have all night and all day to talk, so take your time

FrankDux · Dec 12, 2016

Oh no, we seemed to have lost Mr Ken for the moment

OK, well, I guess I just have to forge on ahead

Here is some of that " evidence " you asked for here:

" So please display some evidence of your most unusual claim "

~ Mr Ken

OK my friend challenge accepted

Here is the word " flood " which actually refers to the eclipse magnitude { We can discuss that aplenty as well if you like }

I have taken a screenshot from the principle online Sumerian dictionary { Which is also linked to the Oxford site } that Yale uses in it's translations of the Sumerian creation epics { And many more texts }, and posted it over a screenshot of the translation from Yale's website { mind you this is just one single text, I have studied many

That's just one single tablet from the Enuma Anu Enlil, the Sumerian creation epic

There is my " evidence " of my " most unusual claim ", although I have to be honest, for anybody who is actually familiar with the ancient texts and uses the websites that Yale and Oxford use, it's not unusual at all

It's fact, but if we really wanted to get into the topic deeply we would need to use mathematics and astronomy, and tons of languages, even pre-cuneiform Sumerian logograms

Back to you, my friend

FrankDux · Dec 12, 2016

Goodness, we might have to send out a search party for Mr Ken

Well, anyway,.....

Here is the same creation text, and this time I've highlighted the term for " eclipse ", please note that while one database reads " anĝi " and one reads " AN.GE ", they are phonetically equivalent

I think I'll have to start a thread for the discussion of the various flood terminologies in Sumerian, Akkadian, Babylonian, etc

There are actually several different " flood " terms that are used to refer to both eclipses and the attributes of a ruling king, but they are also intimately interrelated

One was even used in the Akkadian name of Jerusalem

I'm going to show you how all the Biblical writings about " horns " and " crowns " and " heads " and " floods " all come from these ancient astronomical texts and refer to nothing more complex than eclipses

Hence the Book of Revelation utilizing knowledge of mathematical astronomy handed down from the Sumerian priesthood that all revolve around the use of the intercalated Solar and Lunar calendars

" there will be signs in the sky "

Thanks

Sumerian is much older than the biblical Flood

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