Struggling to understand gods word.

Hey Mike,

Before this thread spins out of control, I just wanted you to be aware that you've posted your question in General Apologetics, where you will be receiving responses from nonbelievers as well. If that's what you want, great.

But if you want your post to be responded to by Christians only, ask that the moderator move it to a Christians only forum.

I'll hold off on my response until I know where this thread is going (or staying).

Cheers

Grizzly that was a wonderful thing there.
Honestly I would have expected a massive attack on this thread.

Grizzly said:

Hey Mike,

Before this thread spins out of control, I just wanted you to be aware that you've posted your question in General Apologetics, where you will be receiving responses from nonbelievers as well. If that's what you want, great.

But if you want your post to be responded to by Christians only, ask that the moderator move it to a Christians only forum.

I'll hold off on my response until I know where this thread is going (or staying).

Cheers

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Thanks for being so fair minded about this Griz... most are not so considerate and would pounce immediately.
Kudos to you!

Grizzly said:

Hey Mike,

Before this thread spins out of control, I just wanted you to be aware that you've posted your question in General Apologetics, where you will be receiving responses from nonbelievers as well. If that's what you want, great.

But if you want your post to be responded to by Christians only, ask that the moderator move it to a Christians only forum.

I'll hold off on my response until I know where this thread is going (or staying).

Cheers

Click to expand...

Grizzly that was a really nice response.

mjhgecko said:

Struggling to understand gods word.

Hello, I would like some feed back. I hope there is someone that can give me some insight into areas of the Old Testament that I am having a hard time with.

I am trying to grow as a Christian and have started reading the bible on a regular basis. I believe that the whole bible is the inspired word of god. I know that it is important to understand the historical, cultural and authorship of the bible to properly interpret the text.
When you start to omit or discredit text the whole word becomes subjective. The Old Testament presents many challenges to the modern day thinking believer. For example: The accounts of supernatural miracles such as as the great flood and an earth that is only about 10,000 years old according to it’s genealogy from Adam to Christ.
With faith, an open mind and letting yourself think outside of popular culture, it is possible to come to terms with many of the Old Testaments challenges to us as believers.
The thing that I am struggling with this point is not any of the miracles but, with reconciling the cruelty of the god of the old testament with the love of Jesus Christ. Israel was a theocracy (ruled by god). Under this government slavery, and the destruction of
other nations for no apparent reason was sanctioned. I find King David to be a particular sticking point. The man after gods own hart killed tens of thousands, committed adultery, and handed 7 of saul’s sons over to be killed and there bodies put on public display.


Please help me with this.

Mike

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Ithink I can give you insight, but first I will see if you move your post

Thanks for the kind words, everyone, but it just comes from being here long enough. When someones first post at CF is in GA, and it's a question about Christianity, there is a greater likelihood that it was put there by mistake. It would be a shame for someone to be turned off at CF because they inadvertantly posted in the wrong forum.

mjhgecko said:

Struggling to understand gods word.


The thing that I am struggling with this point is not any of the miracles but, with reconciling the cruelty of the god of the old testament with the love of Jesus Christ. Israel was a theocracy (ruled by god). Under this government slavery, and the destruction of
other nations for no apparent reason was sanctioned. I find King David to be a particular sticking point. The man after gods own hart killed tens of thousands, committed adultery, and handed 7 of saul’s sons over to be killed and there bodies put on public display.


Please help me with this.

Mike

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About all the killings in the OT I have tried many times to explain this-it doesn't seem to be accepted especially in GA. First of all I understand that a war BEGAN in heaven and continues here on earth. Satan and 1/3 of the angels desired to overthrow God. So it starts in the garden when satan beguiles Eve. Then satan working with God's creation continued to attempt to steal God's people.It was a war. There were two sides God and satan. A lot of bloody killing on both sides. We read about God's victory in the war..As I pointed out in the past, what if God didn't have the victory in these bloody battles. Who would be in rule now? God allowed self will back then and still does today. Back then it was the OC. Then Jesus came for atonement. Thank God we are still fighting the SAME battle but now it is spiritual and not carnal.. All things were created for God by God. Would it make sense that He would sit back and allow the influences of satan to overcome His creation? I don't know if you have started reading the NT but you will see the paralels...The OC happened in the carnal, the NC is spiritual.....I got to run some errands but I will get back with you. God Bless

mjhgecko said:

The thing that I am struggling with this point is not any of the miracles but, with reconciling the cruelty of the god of the old testament with the love of Jesus Christ. Israel was a theocracy (ruled by god). Under this government slavery, and the destruction of
other nations for no apparent reason was sanctioned. I find King David to be a particular sticking point. The man after gods own hart killed tens of thousands, committed adultery, and handed 7 of saul’s sons over to be killed and there bodies put on public display.


Please help me with this.

Mike

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I'll give you a fairly non standard answer this being the Apologetics forum and all.

You might start by noting that Jesus is the Messiah and as such is the greatest AUTHORITY of the Bible. We actually know very little about where the OT even comes from. Beginning the discussion with the assumption that the OT is somehow flawless is I think at the root of your trouble. If Judaism was already perfect, there wouldn't be much need for a Messiah to begin with.

Jesus represents a pretty clear departure from the eye for an eye mentality of the OT. The fact that he is the Jewish MESSIAH is what gives him the authority to reject and in fact REBUKE Mosiac traditions and Judiasm in general. If you read Matthew 5, Jesus says "You have heard an eye for an eye...." This is a direct quote from Moses himself. He then goes on to say "But I say...." as in "That's not quite right, the real way you should treat others is....". He then goes on to explain that we should "Love your enemy" and "Turn the other cheek" and "Be perfect".

Christ's message of love and forgiveness marks a CLEAR and SIGNIFICANT departure from the cruelty of the OT. Jesus came to set things right. You can't do that if the past was perfect to begin with. It surely was not pefect, and Moses was certainly a flawed character. You'll note that Moses comes down from the mountain with the commandments in hand, one of which says quite clearly "Do not kill". He then proceeds to order the execution of thousands of his own people in direct defiance of that commandment. The OT figure of Moses represents the unevolved spiritual CHILD. Jesus is the evolved perfection of God's morality.

I think if you tried to view the OT as more of a metaphor of spirtual immaturity and the NT and Jesus as the transformed EVOLVED spirit of God, and saw the bible as a metaphor of spiritual transformation, you'll have better luck making sense of the Bible.

I suppose I have a slighty different take on the Bible than the above poster has. I don't see the Bible as a metaphor but as the Word of God and I believe what it says to be true. I also feel that I don't have to understand every single word in the Bible in order to believe it. I feel that if I did, it wouldn't truly be from God, but from man. I understand enough of the Bible to know about God's plan of salvation and why I need that salvation. And there are some passages that are very near and dear to my heart that get me through some tough times. But these are just my personal feelings. A bit off topic, but on to your questions.

Some of the Old Testament is hard to understand and why things happened the way they did. But I think it helps to take it as a whole. It is the story of God's covenant with the nation of Israel, his establishing of the convenant people and the promise of a Messiah. If you will remember, King David wanted to build the permanent temple for God, but God had other plans for David. He wanted peace to be established in the land before His temple was built. The building of the temple would fall to one of King David's sons, not to King David. David was a warrior king, so to speak, establishing a kingdom. Sometimes peace and freedom only comes through war, as was the case in America. America was born in war. If you look ahead to Revelation, once again the kingdom of God will come about in war, with Jesus being the "warrior king". So that isn't an unfamiliar concept. Good vs. evil, basically. In David's time, it was the Israelites battling their pagan neighbors for land promised them through the covenant with God. God is a God of love, but He is also holy. And holiness doesn't allow for sinfulness.

The stories of David also show us that even though David was after God's own heart, he was very human. He messed up. Sometimes really big. He did things that he shouldn't have done. But he genuinely repented of those sins. If you read the Psalms written by David, you can feel his anguish at his sin. At one point he calls himself a worm. He wonders how God can even look at him, knowing what he has done. But, you can also rejoice with David when he received redemption from the God he loves so much. I think it teaches us that we don't have to be perfect, sinless beings to serve God. God can work through our imperfections. He can work through those matters that we take into our own hands and mess up. We just have to be willing to serve God with our whole hearts, admit when we have sinned, repent when we have sinned and allow God to lead us. That's what I learn from David.

I hope this helps answer some of those questions, Mike.