Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
Well I wish you'd stop, because we're supposed to be talking about a community service provider.I'm talking about things as they apply to you.
Do you think that might because you're so busy trying to argue that I'm somehow arguing against Catholic teaching, when I'm not even discussing it, maybe?I have no idea what you are talking about.
Do you think that might because you're so busy trying to argue that I'm somehow arguing against Catholic teaching, when I'm not even discussing it, maybe?
*sigh* I'm explaining myself as best as I can, in all honesty, you seem determined not to understand what I'm talking about.Look, here's my last post on the issue, unless you actually clarify your position:
You were the one that started this conversation by saying that if the unborn could be proven to be human beings the debate on abortion would be settled. When I pointed out that they are clearly human, you said that there was a difference between humans and human beings. When I tried to figure out what you meant, you were the one who shifted the conversation to being about things that (all?) non-Catholics would agree upon. You have been the one guiding this conversation, and in order for anyone else to follow it we need to know what definitions you are using.
So of course you are discussing the issue. Of course this has necessarily become about what you believe.
The problem with that is any woman can ascertain a need.We have no Federal law governing when abortion may happen - any moment up to birth is legal. I favor a compromise path, in which pro-lifers and pro-choices get together and adopt legislation that allows abortion for those who "need" it most while offering additional help to mothers and their children and placing strong controls on when abortion is and is not legal. Unfortunately, the majority of pro-lifers and pro-choices are extremists who will not accept any compromise, so we'll continue to get what we've always got.
There have been trainwrecks since before there were trains. This is why well intentioned but naive ideas like "just say no" don't work.How do people get into these messes? Where are their parents?
i.e. makes sense to everyone,
The problem with that is any woman can ascertain a need.
Any woman can claim rape and did not ask to get pregnant and we do know - that rape would be one of the 'needs' in such a list.
It would come down to red tape and proving such a thing - that we know would not happen. Nor could they prove it...
So it would be really keeping abortions at the current rate they are.. if a woman is prepared to kill her child - she is equally prepared to lie to have it done.
Well... that's problematic, too. There are any number of reasons why a rape victim may not come forward within 48 hours, or, indeed, at all.We could require that the rape be reported to police within 48 hours to qualify for an abortion - before she would even know she was pregnant. Additionally, there are a wide variety of moral opinions surrounding abortion, and there certainly do exist women who believe that abortion is acceptable and that lying is wrong. Furthermore, the argument that a woman will lie to get an abortion if abortions are otherwise illegal is awful close to the pro-choicer's argument that is abortion is illegal, women will just get illegal, less safe abortions. While there would be some of that, I don't believe it is true in a general sense.
You just contradicted yourself. If women "took more care" why did they "go away to relatives"?I dont think keeping it legal is an answer.
A desperate woman will lie.
A woman who knows there is no choice - would take more care in abstaining and being responsible if she didnt abstain.
In the 50's - women went away to relatives and opted for adoption services.
Well... that's problematic, too. There are any number of reasons why a rape victim may not come forward within 48 hours, or, indeed, at all.
I've never quite understood the idea of the "abortion for rape" exemption. I mean, if we believe that foetuses are people, with their own inalienable rights and all, surely that's the case whether they are conceived by rape or not? If everything right to lifers say about abortion is truly said from concern over the foetus' rights, and not as a tool to use pregnancy as punishment for sex, why does rape make abortion OK?
Rape exception? So we murder the baby? It wasn't the baby's fault that a rape occurred.I don't think rape makes abortion okay at all. I also don't think we'll achieve a meaningful compromise without at least the possibility of a rape exception.
fair enough.I don't think rape makes abortion okay at all. I also don't think we'll achieve a meaningful compromise without at least the possibility of a rape exception.
Rape exception? So we murder the baby? It wasn't the baby's fault that a rape occurred.
You and he don't have the same meaning for the word "objective". It might be more productive to avoid that word.*sigh* I'm explaining myself as best as I can, in all honesty, you seem determined not to understand what I'm talking about.
MY opinions about the difference between human and human being are not important, in the greater scheme of things. We're not talking about my personal opinion. We're talking about a legal abortion provider, right? We're talking about stopping abortion generally, right? So, generally speaking... the issue here is proving to people generally that being human and being AN human being are the same thing. To everyone. Ot at least a legally significant majority.
Hence, you need to do it objectively, i.e. in a manner that can be shown as accurate, regardless of one's personal beliefs, i.e. makes sense to everyone, not just Catholics.
Better?
You say tomato, I say abortion is always wrong.......Nobody argued otherwise, but you knocked the heck out of that straw man you built. I favor doing what is possible to reduce abortions to a minimum. Others propose doing virtually nothing while they wait for an all-out ban. Best of luck with that.
This here, is wicked nonsense . While it seems to me that the US is a particular case which allows very late abortion , what you have said is full of contempt and judgement of women . Not only do women die in childbirth ,but they leave behind children and families who are bereft of a mother .Hearts would change if it was illegal - for then they would have to face their own struggle to obtain a Dr. - pay someone sleazy and hope they dont get infected.
Then they would have to consider they 'might' put themselves in the same precarious situation as their own baby.
However; any argument that many died or many tried - was all hoax to sell abortion on demand.
Yet - the numbers are low of dying in childbirth now.This here, is wicked nonsense . While it seems to me that the US is a particular case which allows very late abortion , what you have said is full of contempt and judgement of women . Not only do women die in childbirth ,but they leave behind children and families who are bereft of a mother .
There are many 'potential babies 'lost before they can develop at all, a natural process which happens to many many people .If God had meant that a woman could not have any say in whether they were capable of giving birth He would have made the process simpler . Another thing, is that you think that all it takes is a set of cells to make a human being ,and that this Creator God choses to kill a woman with several young children,rather than let go, that which is yet far from a sentient being .You think He cannot remake this clump of cells again ,since it is not yet concious at all,but will take the life of a mother and destroy the lives of her young children for a whole existence , since in so many ways their lives end there when she died .
No God does not do that, human beings who are being judged , they do it .
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?