strength without the mass

cocoshortcake · Aug 17, 2003

i started weightlifting and training a year ago. i have a pretty small body(meaning im short) and it's not looking very nice that i've gained so much muscle mass. does anyone know anyways i can increase my strength (arms, legs, possibly all around) without gaining too much muscle mass, but instead just staying toned?

DGB454 · Aug 17, 2003

You could increase the reps and lower the weight but unfortunatly that won't increase your strength but it will increase your endurance. It sounds like you have a body type that packs on the mass rather easily.(Like Danny Padilla the giant killer.) Some guys would love to have that body type but it sounds like that's not the direction you want to go so I would lower the weights and raise the reps and do more cardio work.

Good luck.

Lion of Narnia · Aug 17, 2003

Actually, I think the research is that if you want to increase strength with little or no bulk, it's high weights and very few reps per sets to exhaustion. No more than 3 reps, and 1-2 is more like it. You're trying to hit the fast-twitch white muscle fibers

panterapat · Aug 18, 2003

I looked at your post because I thought you were expressing a question about spiritual strength without the Catholic Mass. Let me tellyou that without the Mass, I would have no spiritual strength. (And lots of reps sure helps me)

In Christ, Patrick

Spicy McHaggis · Aug 18, 2003

Lion of Narnia said:
Actually, I think the research is that if you want to increase strength with little or no bulk, it's high weights and very few reps per sets to exhaustion. No more than 3 reps, and 1-2 is more like it. You're trying to hit the fast-twitch white muscle fibers

High weight, low rep to failure is going to build more mass. When you push a muscle to failure you tear muscle fibers that rebuild on top of eachother, that's where the mass comes from.

Low weight high reps is going to give you more tone and endurance. Push-ups are a great way to increase strength and endurance.

ando · Aug 18, 2003

iklepac13 said:
High weight, low rep to failure is going to build more mass. When you push a muscle to failure you tear muscle fibers that rebuild on top of eachother, that's where the mass comes from.

Low weight high reps is going to give you more tone and endurance. Push-ups are a great way to increase strength and endurance.

I agree with this and also to try some cardio vascular work.

God Bless

Ando

Joelk · Aug 19, 2003

Heavy weight for few reps to failure (1-4 reps) causes strength increases do to improved nerve efficiency. It causes more nerves to fire at once for an all out contraction. You will also lift more weight over time with that system as your confidence improves. The heavy weights will stress the tendons and ligaments as well so they will toughen up.
However you won't be able to stay in that rep range too long as the nervous system will get over trained. And the muscles won't get enough volume to maintain their overall strength.
The trick is to find the balence that is right for you and to periodize accordingly.
Diet plays the most importand role in keeping bodyweight down as strength inceases.
Some exercises like Power Cleans should only be done with reps from 1-4. But exercises like that depend on exercises like the squat to increase the weight lifted.........Joel

Spicy McHaggis · Aug 19, 2003

Joelk said:
The heavy weights will stress the tendons and ligaments as well so they will toughen up.

As a post-script to this comment. If you take steroids, your muscles increase strength faster than your ligaments and tendons can keep up. So you run the risk of one day contracting, and having your muscle snap off at the joint. I know we're not talking steroids here, but I thought I'd drop the knowledge.

cocoshortcake · Aug 22, 2003

thanks for all the advice you guys. really helped, especially the endurance parts (cause i'll need that)

god's peace

rem

catalyst · Aug 25, 2003

In addition to modifications in your training regimen, mass gain will also be a function of diet. What sort of program (both diet and exercise) do you currently follow?

iitb · Sep 3, 2003

I find that heavy weight, low reps, and not training to failure works best.

Brother John · Sep 8, 2003

Joelk said:
Heavy weight for few reps to failure (1-4 reps) causes strength increases do to improved nerve efficiency. It causes more nerves to fire at once for an all out contraction.

Muscular contraction is all or nothing, it's the intensity/duration of contraction that differs, not the number of neural pathways firing. Neural efficiency does occur, but not an increase in the nubmer of neurons being used.

Besides, high weight/low reps is one of the Best ways to put on mass.
Increased neural efficiency accounts for a smidge of the over all strength gains.

Your Brother
John

Brother John · Sep 8, 2003

panterapat said:
I looked at your post because I thought you were expressing a question about spiritual strength without the Catholic Mass. Let me tellyou that without the Mass, I would have no spiritual strength. (And lots of reps sure helps me)
In Christ, Patrick

I study/teach a martial art that has codified different principles in order to optimize it's effectiveness/efficiency...
One of these principles is "Back-up Mass", basically it boils down to being able to align your body so that your physical body mass adds to the impact of any strike:
One day, while studying under my first instructor I asked him to extrapolate on what "back-up mass" is...
(He's Catholic, I'm not...)
He said...
"It's Saturday night."
He laughed and laughed...
I did to, after he explained it to me.

Your brother
John

Brother John · Sep 8, 2003

cocoshortcake said:
i started weightlifting and training a year ago. i have a pretty small body(meaning im short) and it's not looking very nice that i've gained so much muscle mass. does anyone know anyways i can increase my strength (arms, legs, possibly all around) without gaining too much muscle mass, but instead just staying toned?

Any time you increase your muscles ability to handle greater weight you WILL gain muscular mass. There is a general mass/density to strength ratio that your body will try to keep... for you it will be different due to your diminutive stature. (no offense, hey... I'm bald... your short; we all have our issues don't we?)

Simple answer: don't want more mass, don't lift more pounds.
Also: increase your aerobic work greatly.
ever see a bulky distance runner?

Me either...
Your Bro.
John

Rising_Suns · Sep 18, 2003

panterapat said:
I looked at your post because I thought you were expressing a question about spiritual strength without the Catholic Mass. Let me tellyou that without the Mass, I would have no spiritual strength. (And lots of reps sure helps me)

In Christ, Patrick

LOL! That was the funniest comment I've seen all day, but so true. Thank you for the laugh.

Lion of Narnia · Sep 22, 2003

Ive been doing some more research into the increasing-strength-without-increasing-mass question of weight training. I was really excited at first about Peter Siscos Power Factor training, especially if adapted for fewer repetitions to enhance strength as opposed to more repetitions to enhance strength and bulk. But there are disadvantages in Power Factor, first one must have access to a gym with a safety rack as well as a leg press machine and a preacher curl station; and secondly one has figure out ones Power factor target and result every workout; and third, it still emphasizes lots of sets for its core exercises. In fact, the entire program is still very bodybuilding (i.e. bulking up) oriented.

The fact remains, the lighter weight power lifters and Olympic weightlifters have to increase their strength without increasing their bulk if they are to make weight. My own gym experience is that I could consistently increase strength with low repetition (no more than 5) sets and very few sets. But Im an ectomorph by nature; its very hard for me to gain muscle mass in any case. But I want to be strong, so lighter weights, 12-16 repetition sets were not doing it for me at all. Also, I have no desire to spend time doing 1-3 warm up sets, 1-3 escalating sets, before finally getting to the final 1-2 heavy sets.

Scrounging about my public library, I lucked across Power to the People: Russian Strength Training Secrets for Every American by Pavel Tsatsouline (hint to fellow financially challenged, use your public library rather than the bookstoreand interlibrary loan is a heaven-sent opportunity!) Pavel was a physical trainer to Russian Special Forces, and his strength and flexibility books and videos are getting rave from the martial arts community for presenting methods for improving functional strength and flexibility.

You will have to get the book to get the essential details, but Pavel stresses just two (2) exercises, mainly dead lifts and the old fashioned barbell side press. To get wiry strength with little or no bulk, do one set at 85% of your 1 repetition maximum, for no more than 5 repetitions in perfect form NOT to failure-rest 2-3 minutes and do just one more set at 90% (no more than 5 reps again, not to failure) the weight of your first set. Total time for completing this whole body strength program, 20 minutes. Maybe a little more with ab work and barbell curls.

More later

catalyst · Sep 22, 2003

Muscular contraction is all or nothing, it's the intensity/duration of contraction that differs, not the number of neural pathways firing. Neural efficiency does occur, but not an increase in the nubmer of neurons being used.

Actually, things like increase in rate of force development (RFD), motor unit recruitment, and inter- and intra-muscular coordination contribute significantly to increases in strength. These are most easily witness in the beginnger, who can increase strength at an incredible rate simply due to increased neural efficiency, but the ability to increase in all of these areas is present in just about everybody. And they are the primary methods by which and OL'er or PL'er will improve their strength when desiring to remain in the same weight class.

For more info on this subject, I highly recommend Science and Practice of Strength Training by VI Zatsiorsky, and Supertraining, by Siff and Verkoshansky.

strength without the mass

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