strange 'catholic' claim...

[Hoonbaba]

Hey guys,

I have a friend of mine who grew up going to Catholic school and she was saying how she was taught how Catholics had to go to a priest, so that the priest can intercede on their behalf.  Can someone explain why this is?  Or more like, can someone explain she would think that?

and lastly, does the catechism encourage believers to go to Jesus for confessing sins?  (if so, can someone point me to the paragraph?)

This post is more like a 'just making sure' post.  I just want to make sure I understand all this correctly, not that I don't know it at all =P

God bless!

-Jason

 

[isshinwhat]

It completely depends on what you are going to a priest for, Jason. Was she talking about Confession?

Neal

 

[Hoonbaba]

Today at 09:13 PM isshinwhat said this in Post #2

It completely depends on what you are going to a priest for, Jason. Was she talking about Confession?

Neal

I think so. 

Or it could be that she was referring to praying to God, as if one ahd to go to a priest, tell the priest the prayer, and then the priest would transmit that prayer to God. heh that sounds a bit odd doesn't it?

Anyway can you address both issues?

-jason


 

 

[chelcb]

She might be talking about "persona Christi."

When the priest is acting on behalf of Christ by offering mass and giving absolution I don't think he is interceding on our behalf, he is acting with the power of Christ.

Persona Christi is acting in the person of Christ, doing what he would do if he were here bodily to do it. I would assume this is differnt from intersession but I could be wrong.

Understanding persona Christi is hard even for catholics that's been Catholic forever. There really is no appropriate language to put it in, in order to do the meanig of what it is justice. So maybe she was trying to say something that would help you get a better picture.

 

[Hoonbaba]

But what if she was talk'n about confession?  Can someone point me to the paragraph in the catechism that addresses the issue of going to Christ for confession?

-Jason

 

[Axion]

Today at 03:56 PM Hoonbaba said this in Post #5 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=700861#post700861)

But what if she was talk'n about confession?  Can someone point me to the paragraph in the catechism that addresses the issue of going to Christ for confession?

-Jason

Confession of sins to a priest and gaining forgiveness are grounded in Jesus words:
John 20:23: If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.

This is from the catechism of the Catholic Church. There is more on this link

http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p2s2c2a4.htm

1443 During his public life Jesus not only forgave sins, but also made plain the effect of this forgiveness: he reintegrated forgiven sinners into the community of the People of God from which sin had alienated or even excluded them. A remarkable sign of this is the fact that Jesus receives sinners at his table, a gesture that expresses in an astonishing way both God's forgiveness and the return to the bosom of the People of God.44

1444 In imparting to his apostles his own power to forgive sins the Lord also gives them the authority to reconcile sinners with the Church. This ecclesial dimension of their task is expressed most notably in Christ's solemn words to Simon Peter: "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."45 "The office of binding and loosing which was given to Peter was also assigned to the college of the apostles united to its head."46

1445 The words bind and loose mean: whomever you exclude from your communion, will be excluded from communion with God; whomever you receive anew into your communion, God will welcome back into his. Reconciliation with the Church is inseparable from reconciliation with God.

The sacrament of forgiveness

1446 Christ instituted the sacrament of Penance for all sinful members of his Church: above all for those who, since Baptism, have fallen into grave sin, and have thus lost their baptismal grace and wounded ecclesial communion. It is to them that the sacrament of Penance offers a new possibility to convert and to recover the grace of justification. The Fathers of the Church present this sacrament as "the second plank [of salvation] after the shipwreck which is the loss of grace."47

 

[chelcb]

Today at 09:56 AM Hoonbaba said this in Post #5

But what if she was talk'n about confession?  Can someone point me to the paragraph in the catechism that addresses the issue of going to Christ for confession?

-Jason

Jason it is all the same thing. Persona Christ is the thing that makes the priest able to grant you Christ forgiveness.

 

[Hoonbaba]

But hypothetically speaking, if a believer cannot go to a priest (i.e. he's in prison somewhere in China), then would that imply that the Catechism is saying that the believer is absolutely doomed or something?

-Jason

 

[ZooMom]

Not at all. The Church does not 'doom' anyone. We rely on the Grace of God, which we believe is imparted to us through the Sacraments that He established. If the Sacraments are not available, then we still rely on God's Grace through His Mercy. You see, God is not bound by the Sacraments, He has merely established them as efficient vehicles of His Grace. They help us, but they most certainly do not hinder God. He bestows His Grace where He wills. Regard our Protestant brothers. They do not even recognize the Sacraments as such, but are they bereft of Grace? No! God knows who belongs to Him, and His Mercy is infinite.


Peace be with you.

 

[Wolseley]

But hypothetically speaking, if a believer cannot go to a priest (i.e. he's in prison somewhere in China), then would that imply that the Catechism is saying that the believer is absolutely doomed or something?

No, because in that kind of situation, it is understood that there is an impediment placed upon the individual which is beyond his control.

I.e., the person needs to go to Confession, wants to go to Confession, and if he were to be allowed to do so, has every intention of going to Confession, but he can't, because he's in a Chinese gulag. This would fall under the same category as a person who desires to be baptized, and has every intention of being baptized, but is killed for his faith before he has the chance to be baptized.

 

[chelcb]

Jason,

I am going to simplify Catholicism for you. God reads the heart. For what ever your question may be your answer is, God always reads the heart.

Now, if you are in the position to go to mass, confession, communion then you are bound to go, but for what ever reason you can not, God will read your heart to see if you legitimately can not frequent sacraments for whatever reason or if you are just making excuses.

God reads the heart.

 

[Hoonbaba]

Thanks everyone!  It was very helpful!

-Jason