stork321's Room...

[stork321]

Hi everyone...and Happy Sabbath!

I decided to make this thread so that if I have questions or need clarifications I'll post it here...

I have a request....Only SDAs are allowed to post here...thanks

Here's my first question...Where do others based their belief that when we die we go to heaven or hell or the "immortality of the soul"? maybe they have passage in the bible to back-up their belief can you post it here and explain it?

thanks

 

[k4c]

Hi everyone...and Happy Sabbath!

I decided to make this thread so that if I have questions or need clarifications I'll post it here...

I have a request....Only SDAs are allowed to post here...thanks

Here's my first question...Where do others based their belief that when we die we go to heaven or hell or the "immortality of the soul"? maybe they have passage in the bible to back-up their belief can you post it here and explain it?

thanks

One verse that is very popular is found in 2 Cor. 5:8.

2Cor 5:8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.

They say Paul was teaching a doctrine that when we die we go right to heaven because he said to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.

Paul spoke much of when this would take place. He always looked to resuerrection, which is when he would get his new body and be done with the old one.

1Cor 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

1Cor 15:54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory."​

This is all taking place at the resurrection. Paul was looking forward to that day with joy. He understood how our new bodies would be free from suffering and pain of which Paul was very familuar with. This is why he said what he said when he said, "I would much rather be, absent for the body and present with the Lord." And when did Paul believe he would be free from his corrupt body and be with the Lord? At the resurrection...​

1 Thess 4:15-17 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive [and] remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are 4 asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.Then we who are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.​

​

​

It's important to use the Bible to interpret the verses and not use the verses to interpret the Bible.​

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Hi everyone...and Happy Sabbath!

I decided to make this thread so that if I have questions or need clarifications I'll post it here...

I have a request....Only SDAs are allowed to post here...thanks

Here's my first question...Where do others based their belief that when we die we go to heaven or hell or the "immortality of the soul"? maybe they have passage in the bible to back-up their belief can you post it here and explain it?

thanks

Hey Wyrlo! Sabbath blessing to you as well!!

This is a great idea to be able to get instruction from fellow believers, just be sure to do your own study on what we present...

The idea that man is immediately translated comes from the first lie that Lucifer told to Eve in the garden... and that was that we shall not surely die if we sin. Most people today, whether they will admit it or not, believe this and think humans are immortal, which we know the Bible says we are not. I say this is what most people believe because the popular understanding of death is that we close our eyes in death and are immediately transported to heaven.

This is like a child falling asleep at their grandparents house and then waking up in their own bed at home and, not knowing the truth of how they got there, thinking they have the power of teleportation.

 

[stork321]

One verse that is very popular is found in 2 Cor. 5:8.

2Cor 5:8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.

They say Paul was teaching a doctrine that when we die we go right to heaven because he said to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.

Paul spoke much of when this would take place. He always looked to resuerrection, which is when he would get his new body and be done with the old one.

1Cor 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

1Cor 15:54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory."​

This is all taking place at the resurrection. Paul was looking forward to that day with joy. He understood how our new bodies would be free from suffering and pain of which Paul was very familuar with. This is why he said what he said when he said, "I would much rather be, absent for the body and present with the Lord." And when did Paul believe he would be free from his corrupt body and be with the Lord? At the resurrection...​

1 Thess 4:15-17 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive [and] remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are 4 asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.Then we who are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.​

​

​

It's important to use the Bible to interpret the verses and not use the verses to interpret the Bible.​

Reading the whole chapter of 2 Cor 5 we see that Paul was really talking about the resurrection and not going straight to heaven after we die.

Continuing reading up to verse 10 it says:

"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad."

Paul was aware about the state of the dead..

thanks for the verses and explanation k4c

do you have some more idea to back up their beliefs about going straight to heaven after we die?

 

[stork321]

Hey Wyrlo! Sabbath blessing to you as well!!

This is a great idea to be able to get instruction from fellow believers, just be sure to do your own study on what we present...

The idea that man is immediately translated comes from the first lie that Lucifer told to Eve in the garden... and that was that we shall not surely die if we sin. Most people today, whether they will admit it or not, believe this and think humans are immortal, which we know the Bible says we are not. I say this is what most people believe because the popular understanding of death is that we close our eyes in death and are immediately transported to heaven.

This is like a child falling asleep at their grandparents house and then waking up in their own bed at home and, not knowing the truth of how they got there, thinking they have the power of teleportation.

In that case they make God the liar and the serpent the truth teller..

For God said "you will surely die" but look satan contradicts what God said he said "you will not surely die"...

Now, who is the truth teller? - God of course!

John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.


thanks ECR my friend

 

[k4c]

In that case they make God the liar and the serpent the truth teller..

For God said "you will surely die" but look satan contradicts what God said he said "you will not surely die"...

Now, who is the truth teller? - God of course!

John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.


thanks ECR my friend

Another important thing a lot of people miss is that God kicked Adam and Eve out of the garden so they wouldn't eat from the tree of life and live ever. This means in order for someone to be burning in hell forever they would have to have eternal life first but we know that eternal life is a gift only to the righteous and not the wicked.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Another important thing a lot of people miss is that God kicked Adam and Eve out of the garden so they wouldn't eat from the tree of life and live ever. This means in order for someone to be burning in hell forever they would have to have eternal life first but we know that eternal life is a gift only to the righteous and not the wicked.

Thats a good point!... I had never considered before about the need of the tree of life for immortality. Kind of a fly in the ointment for the eternal damnation believers...

 

[stork321]

I think they also use the parable - "lazarus and the rich man" and the thief on the cross as the bases of their belief?

for the replies for my first query...Hope I can get more ideas as to where they get the idea of the "immortality of the soul"


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

So here's my second question...I think I already asked this to ECR, but anyway I will share it to others..

This morning my classmates were talking about why others eat pork and others do not...I was just listening to them..

One of my classmates qouted Matt 15:11

"Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man."

"that's why we can eat pork now" he said..

can you explain or clarify this passage further?

Thanks

 

[stork321]

I saw this in my sent items and I think I'll share also this with you so here's my third question....

I went to church this morning, I was sitting in my chair and my cousin approached me and told me........

cousin: you know, when we go to restaurant we commit sin according to my friend (non-adventist)

me: whoa! what is it?

cousin: you already know about the unclean and clean foods right?

me: yeah!

cousin: well, the utensils that they are using like the spoon and fork or the plates..we are pretty sure that this utensils are used by the costumers...there are costumers that eat the unlcean food and they use this plate...

me: so what?

cousin: don't you know that it is stated in the bible that we should not touch those things that was touched by the unclean beasts? it is abominable!

Is this true? or is that law still in effect today? or maybe its just misunderstanding?

 

[k4c]

for the replies for my first query...Hope I can get more ideas as to where they get the idea of the "immortality of the soul"
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
So here's my second question...I think I already asked this to ECR, but anyway I will share it to others..

Thanks

Under the old covenant God was teaching a people how to live life as a people of God. In these teachings, God was dealing with things that where intrinsically physically unhealthy for people in general and ceremonially unhealthy for people called by God. When the people of God violated any of these two principles God administered punishment to control and teach outward behavior. The fear of God's punishment guided and directed the outward behavior of God's people.

Under the new covenant God is now dealing with heart issues while God's people were still more focused on the outward ceremonial behavior. Jesus' focus was on heart principles, which was not to make void the outward. Jesus' ministry was to make the inside of the cup clean through grace and truth motived by love without fear. In other words, if the outward looked clean, all the while the inward was not clean, Jesus corrected them. For example, it's good that you don't murder but it's not good that you don't murder yet you hate your brother. It's good that you don't sleep around but it's not good that you don't sleep around yet you watch pornography.

In Jesus' statement about what goes in the mouth does not make a person unclean He was focused on the fact that if that which is in the cup is already unclean it doesn't matter what goes in because what's in the cup alreay is more important. God's religious people were worried about their traditions, which they set up to make them ceremonial set apart for God.

Will God punish you for eating with a dirty fork and knife? No... Can the dirty fork and knife punish you by making you sick? Yes they can!

Will God punish you for eating unclean animals as He did under the old covenant? No... Can eating unclean animals punish you? Yes they can!

Why is this? Because cereimonially unclean things are unclean and sinful because God says they are unclean and sinful for His people but intrinsically unclean things are unclean because they are naturally, through creation, unclean and sinful because they cause pain, sickness and death for all people.

One is spiritually or ceremonially unclean and one is physically or naturally unclean. Under the old covenant, God enforced both the ceremonially unclean and the physically unclean but under the new covenant God is focused on the spiritual, which will in turn correct the physical.

 

[Princessdi]

Stork, I jes have a couple of questions regarding your room. I assure you that I am SDA, a member is good and regular standing member of the church board.

That being said, why did you create a thread to get the thoughts and impressions of SDA on the doctrines of others? Would you not have gotten a better understanding asking them directly. Unless someone here is who who used to believe those doctrines, you are still not getting a clear understanding as to why they believe that way. Also, did you classmate go into more detail than that one text, or did you ask them for further clarification?

The reason I ask these questions is that recently I was made aware that the cuggestion in my signature line is offenssssive and even dangerous as it pertains to SDA doctrines(not is it not a problem for me, but I can probably see it if one believes themself to be easily swayed and not sound in their own doctrine). So to even suggest that we study other religions of the world to get a good understanding is not an option. So in essence you are asking you are asking people who purposely have little or no knowledge of why anyone believes anything besides Adventism(unless, as I said, they came from another denom who believed such), let alone any sort of detailed explanation why they believe the text they use as support is biblically sound for doctrine.

i am really just asking for clarification, not for an argument.

 

[stork321]

Stork, I jes have a couple of questions regarding your room. I assure you that I am SDA, a member is good and regular standing member of the church board.

That being said, why did you create a thread to get the thoughts and impressions of SDA on the doctrines of others? Would you not have gotten a better understanding asking them directly. Unless someone here is who who used to believe those doctrines, you are still not getting a clear understanding as to why they believe that way. Also, did you classmate go into more detail than that one text, or did you ask them for further clarification?

The reason I ask these questions is that recently I was made aware that the cuggestion in my signature line is offenssssive and even dangerous as it pertains to SDA doctrines(not is it not a problem for me, but I can probably see it if one believes themself to be easily swayed and not sound in their own doctrine). So to even suggest that we study other religions of the world to get a good understanding is not an option. So in essence you are asking you are asking people who purposely have little or no knowledge of why anyone believes anything besides Adventism(unless, as I said, they came from another denom who believed such), let alone any sort of detailed explanation why they believe the text they use as support is biblically sound for doctrine.

i am really just asking for clarification, not for an argument.

Dont worry its just ok

First, a little background of my Adventism life. I'm a born adventist (my father and mother are both adventist)..I'm 21yrs old now..For my 20yrs of being adventist, I only know that we should go to church every Saturday and we should not eat pork. The sad part here is I dont know the reason behind why we believe such thing. As long as I go to church and dont eat pork,shrimps,etc its fine with me..Only last year (january) I was baptized..After that time, I studied the Word of God, specially why we go to church every Saturday and why we dont eat those unclean foods.....

.....To make the long story short I dont have any solid foundation regarding our faith.

In my opening post I suggested that as possible only SDAs should reply here, why? for me to avoid confusion when I asked something (I know that there will be replies that is outside our faith)..

I asked here in our board where do non-sda get the idea of the immortality of the soul so that I will not be misled by other faith when they will explain to me why do they believe such thing...(I know that we have more solid stand regarding the state of the dead)...As I said earlier that I dont have yet a solid ground to stand regarding adventism..

I just want to be ready in the future..so that when the day comes that somebody will present to me their idea/belief I can answer them and explain biblicaly what they believe is contrary to the scripture..

Hope you get my point (I really have a hard time here to express my idea because I cant speak English well )

thanks

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

First of all brother, I never would have guessed in all my dialog with you, that you struggled with the English language... maybe you're a bit too hard on yourself...

I find it a sad commentary of the church that someone like you can be raised in the church and then baptized with no fundamental understanding of who we are and what we believe as a denomination...

I do find it praiseworthy, however, that you have not slipped into the same mediocrity you came from but that you are heeding the Holy Spirit in your desire to want to learn... with your teachable spirit, God can do great things through you brother.

 

[Princessdi]

Aaaahhhhh! You have done well Stork. I understand completely. Your Enlish is better than some who claim it as their first languatge. That was my one condition under which someone would not ask those with specific beoiefs why they believe that. Everyone knows their limitations and if the expression of othere beliefs wwould comfuse you, then by all means do get an good foundation in your own. I work better getting all the information I can and sifting through it. Differing opinions never side track me, I was never a follower......

I was also born and raised SDA. Even though my father was not SDA, he did not interfere or even discourage our being raised SDA. He, in fact, supported it. We had many a church BBQs at our home with him working hard at the pit. LOL!! I was taken to SS from birth, taken to the Cradle Roll Class while still a babe in arms. We have continued this tradition in our family until this day. We had excellent teachers then and my parents read Bible stories to us form the Uncle Arthur books as well as study our ss lessons.

Today we tak my great nephew( 5 yrs.old) to SS each week from birth and he is active in the church, being in the children's choir, etc. His SS teachers are excellent, and the cildren's knowledge of the Bible is just phenominal. They put a lot of grown folks to shame when we have Bible quizzes. LOL!!!

Now Stork what I might suggest to you is to also ask why SDAs believe what we believe.

 

[Princessdi]

Unfortunately, ECR, this happens in church when they want to increase their numbers. Baptizing children who have been there and only assuming that they understand is a common mistake, or more like oversight. Unbaptized children is often a pool from which numbers are gathered.

One of our recent Pastors baptized a person or two who said they wanted to be baptized on the same day we were having a baptizism. To me, this would have been alright had he been careful in immediately placing them ina "new believer's" class, Bible studies, etc. But he had no such plan in place, and as you suspect this practice on ly established something of a revovling door.

Now I said it might have been ok with me, but the ideal is to study with people for an extended period of time. I also disagree with baptizing after abbreviated Rev. Sems, etc. My problem with it is that these days baptism is tied to church membership. No matter the denomination, when you are baptized at their church you are conisdered a member of their church with all the benefits of membership. People just need to know what they are getting into. In the Bible, baptism was not tied to membership in a denomination, just into a relationship with Jesus Christ.

I find it a sad commentary of the church that someone like you can be raised in the church and then baptized with no fundamental understanding of who we are and what we believe as a denomination...

 

[stork321]

First of all brother, I never would have guessed in all my dialog with you, that you struggled with the English language... maybe you're a bit too hard on yourself...

I find it a sad commentary of the church that someone like you can be raised in the church and then baptized with no fundamental understanding of who we are and what we believe as a denomination...

I do find it praiseworthy, however, that you have not slipped into the same mediocrity you came from but that you are heeding the Holy Spirit in your desire to want to learn... with your teachable spirit, God can do great things through you brother.

I had my bible study (thrice) before I was baptized but all of them were not finished (I think only 3-4 topics was discussed)

and thanks for the encouragement

 

[stork321]

Aaaahhhhh! You have done well Stork. I understand completely. Your Enlish is better than some who claim it as their first languatge. That was my one condition under which someone would not ask those with specific beoiefs why they believe that. Everyone knows their limitations and if the expression of othere beliefs wwould comfuse you, then by all means do get an good foundation in your own. I work better getting all the information I can and sifting through it. Differing opinions never side track me, I was never a follower......

I was also born and raised SDA. Even though my father was not SDA, he did not interfere or even discourage our being raised SDA. He, in fact, supported it. We had many a church BBQs at our home with him working hard at the pit. LOL!! I was taken to SS from birth, taken to the Cradle Roll Class while still a babe in arms. We have continued this tradition in our family until this day. We had excellent teachers then and my parents read Bible stories to us form the Uncle Arthur books as well as study our ss lessons.

Today we tak my great nephew( 5 yrs.old) to SS each week from birth and he is active in the church, being in the children's choir, etc. His SS teachers are excellent, and the cildren's knowledge of the Bible is just phenominal. They put a lot of grown folks to shame when we have Bible quizzes. LOL!!!

Now Stork what I might suggest to you is to also ask why SDAs believe what we believe.

I think you're right, thanks for the suggestion

 

[stork321]

My friend ask me and I can't give him some direct answer. Please help and all your answers here will be shared to my friend.

He ask me why God permit slavery back then. He said that it was not humane and loving to do that. He also said that they treat those slave as property because it is inherited and they can be slave forever.and he also said why is it that if the master smite the slave and the slave dont die the master will not be punished?

thanks..

 

[OntheDL]

My friend ask me and I can't give him some direct answer. Please help and all your answers here will be shared to my friend.

He ask me why God permit slavery back then. He said that it was not humane and loving to do that. He also said that they treat those slave as property because it is inherited and they can be slave forever.and he also said why is it that if the master smite the slave and the slave dont die the master will not be punished?

thanks..

Slavery was permitted in the biblical time because of the social-economic situation.

In cases of debt or economic hardship, one can become a servant/slave. Also the orphans, widows had no social support system other than the benefits trickled down from the Levites. The Levites managed the tithes and offerings. They distributed them to the Aaronic temple priests and to the 'charity causes'. I say trickled down because the system was corrupted after the Isralites took possession of the land of Palestine, so they could be better off living as servants/slaves. The captives of wars can also become slaves. And every 7 years, the debts were wiped clean and the debt slaves/servants can go free. Every 50th year is the year of Jubile or when the high priest dies, every person is set free. But you can see why some chose to remain. They would piece their ears to show loyalty to their masters.

In the bible servants and slaves were not permitted to be treated harshly.

Lev 25
14 And if thou sell ought unto thy neighbour, or buyest ought of thy neighbour's hand, ye shall not oppress one another:
17 Ye shall not therefore oppress one another; but thou shalt fear thy God:for I am the LORD your God.
43 Thou shalt not rule over him with rigour; but shalt fear thy God.
46 And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever: but over your brethren the children of Israel, ye shall not rule one over another with rigour.

So I don't know what your friend was referring to.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

I agree with OnTheDL, our perception of the term slave has been formed by our history and knowledge of modern day slavery. I think the better term to use would be servant or indentured servant. An indentured servant is someone that has a debt to pay off, a servant is someone who works for their room and board (we aren't told as far as I know, but you can be sure that men like Abraham was more of the fatherly patriarch of his clan of family and servants. I'm sure there were gifts and rewards given to those that were deserving.)

Because of our understanding of the word slave, it really bothers me to read in the spurious Biblical versions that we are slaves to Christ, instead of servants. In my modern day indocrinated mind, a servant is voluntary a slave is compulsory...