Still having problems

[Riff]

.

 

[Bryne]

Yes.

Thinking that your sins are sooooooo bad that Jesus won't ever forgive you is a form of pride. No one is so bad that even God can't forgive them.

 

[EphesiaNZ]

Luke 17:4 - If he sins against you seven times in the day, and seven times returns, saying, ‘I repent,’ you shall forgive him.

 

[Riff]

.

 

[DaRev]

Unless there is repentance, there is no forgiveness.

 

[Studeclunker]

Personally, I can't understand why people think Marajuana is so sinful. It's no worse, or better, than cigarettes or beer. The only difference is that cigs and beer are legal and Pot isn't. Why isn't Pot legal? Because anyone can grow the stuff on a windowsill and thus it's almost impossible to efficiently tax. All things in due moderation. There is no sin in having some fun with your friends. Where the problem begins is dissapation and carrousing.

Paul says, "all things are allowed, yes, but not all things are helpful. All things are allowed, yes, but not all things are uplifting..." etc... All things in due moderation. A little fun is not a sin. Carrousing and getting falling-down drunk and/or stoned is.

Don't obsess on what sins you have committed. Remember Easter is what it's all about. Christ died for your sins and rose on the third day proving that, though him, your sins are blotted out. The fact you are concerned about your sins is a good sign that you are saved. Rest in that salvation and be content.

Now, before the pietists start throwing stones, I'm gonna run and hide somewhere.

 

[Luther073082]

Personally, I can't understand why people think Marajuana is so sinful. It's no worse, or better, than cigarettes or beer. The only difference is that cigs and beer are legal and Pot isn't. Why isn't Pot legal? Because anyone can grow the stuff on a windowsill and thus it's almost impossible to efficiently tax. All things in due moderation. There is no sin in having some fun with your friends. Where the problem begins is dissapation and carrousing.

Paul says, "all things are allowed, yes, but not all things are helpful. All things are allowed, yes, but not all things are uplifting..." etc... All things in due moderation. A little fun is not a sin. Carrousing and getting falling-down drunk and/or stoned is.

Don't obsess on what sins you have committed. Remember Easter is what it's all about. Christ died for your sins and rose on the third day proving that, though him, your sins are blotted out. The fact you are concerned about your sins is a good sign that you are saved. Rest in that salvation and be content.

Now, before the pietists start throwing stones, I'm gonna run and hide somewhere.

I'm not sure about pot personally but I'll take your word for it. I just wanted to point out that ALOT of people on CF think cigarettes are sinful.

Also one could argue that it is sinful precisely because its illegal. We are to obey the secular authorities unless they command us to sin. So it could be argued that its sin simpily because its disobeying secular authorities. Although I will say that if that is said it could be applied to anything which would include exceeding the speed limit.

Also in context one could argue that the bit about obeying secular authorities was more of advice then command. Basically the advice being, "don't go to jail over something silly."

Ultimatly though I don't think smoking pot is a good witness to Christ. I just can't imagine Jesus lighting up a joint. Doesn't even the smallest amount of THC impair you? I can imagine Jesus having a beer or something with the diciples, although wine seems to be the drink of choice at the time.

Riff: My question for you is this. . . why do you smoke pot? Is there a certain group of friends that you usually smoke pot with? What causes you to decide that you want to light up some weed?

And I mean that honestly because I don't smoke pot, never have, and probably never will. So its not a sin that I'm accustomed to battling. (If it was a sin that I've battled I could understand it better.)

I can tell you this though. In the long run you are going to be way better off if you give it up. Lots of jobs won't hire you if they detect weed in your system on a drug test. And I'm not sure exactly how long it stays but I'm pretty sure its at least a couple of weeks if not months. So its not like quitting the weed a few days before your drug test is going to get you past it.

Also things are going to be even bad for you if you are ever caught with it by the police. Doing something for long enough like that, eventually you are going to get caught. Listen even if the courts have mercy on you as a first time offender, you are still going to injure your reputation like this.

 

[DaRev]

Also one could argue that it is sinful precisely because its illegal. We are to obey the secular authorities unless they command us to sin. So it could be argued that its sin simpily because its disobeying secular authorities. Although I will say that if that is said it could be applied to anything which would include exceeding the speed limit.

Exactly.

 

[Luther073082]

Exactly.

So is exceeding the posted speed limit a sin as well then?

If so then thats a sin I'm going to have to start battling...

 

[QuiltAngel]

Actually, marijuana has been in use for both medicinal use and pleasure since at least 1700 B.C. One does not have to smoke it to use it either. I am just putting this out there that it was around during the time of Jesus. Weren't all plants around at that time? Many plants and herbs have been used for medicinal purposes before modern medicine.

 

[QuiltAngel]

So is exceeding the posted speed limit a sin as well then?

If so then thats a sin I'm going to have to start battling...

Well, yes it is. It is against the law and we are to obey secular laws.

 

[Luther073082]

Actually, marijuana has been in use for both medicinal use and pleasure since at least 1700 B.C. One does not have to smoke it to use it either. I am just putting this out there that it was around during the time of Jesus. Weren't all plants around at that time? Many plants and herbs have been used for medicinal purposes before modern medicine.

I watched a documentry on cannibus once and I'm convinced that California's attempt at medicinal Marijuanna is an epic fail.

They talked to a few people with cancer and things like that which I belive is what they had in mind when they created the law. However they talked to a bunch of people also that had minor problems and minor aches and pains and the doctors where giving them weed too. It seemed like no ache or pain was too minor to be prescribed weed.

Also that and I don't like a state creating laws which are directly counter to federal law. As far as I'm concerned all of the state reps who purposefully voted to create a state law which violates federal law is guilty of sedition.

We don't need another major war against treason. Unfortunutly I'm afraid thats exactly where we are headed. And in all likelyhood, if the government prevails again, they'll probably hand the enemy "Good try" metals after they are finished and we'll declare holidays and memoralize traitors. And we'll have another major rebellion thanks to Presidents Lincoln, Johnson, and Grant.

Anyways I'll try not to rant on that one too much. Pet Peeve of mine.

 

[QuiltAngel]

I was trying to show that marijuana has been around a very long time and has been used as medicine since that time. That it was around during Jesus time. You questioned whether or not Jesus would have lit up a joint. We don't know if he ever did or not. We do know that it was around and used during that time period. We can not project the thoughts and viewpoints of 2011 on to ancient history and change history. I was not even getting into the current discussions/debates on the subject.

Now, as far as Riff, if he was not using it for medicinal purposes, then it is wrong as it is against our laws to use it recreationally. I see Riff seeing that his doing so is wrong. Repenting of that wrong and asking forgiveness is the right thing for Riff to do. One needs to strive to not fall into that sin again and again, yet so many times, many of us do repeat a sin over and over. When one does repeat it, they need to repent, receive forgiveness and go about to see what they can do to not repeat it.

 

[Bryne]

If marijuana were made legal for medical use at the federal level, then it would be subject to the same standards that other drugs are subject to. It could be regulated the same way narcotics are...that way, it would be much harder for doctors to get away with over-prescribing or incorrectly prescribing it.

 

[QuiltAngel]

If marijuana were made legal for medical use at the federal level, then it would be subject to the same standards that other drugs are subject to. It could be regulated the same way narcotics are...that way, it would be much harder for doctors to get away with over-prescribing or incorrectly prescribing it.

It is legal in a few states already for medicinal purposes.

It would be classes as a narcotic and have regulations regarding that.

 

[Bryne]

I was responding to Luther073082's post about it being legal in California, and how doctors are prescribing it for pretty much anything...making it very easy to get.

Since it is not legal at the federal level, it is not subject to the regulations that legal drugs are subject to. If it were classed as a Schedule II drug, then it would be a lot easier to hold doctors accountable for over-prescribing. Also, it would have to get FDA approval just like every other drug...and go through the necessary process to do that. (It wouldn't be classed as a narcotic, since it isn't a narcotic...but it could be classed on the same level as narcotics are classed)

 

[QuiltAngel]

That is true. I am adding that in those states where it is legal for medicinal use, it is regulated as you say it would be on the federal level. It is currently classed as a Schedule III narcotic.

Clarification: It is a Schedule 1 where it is not legal for medicinal use and a Schedule III where it is legal for medicinal use.

 

[Bryne]

That is true. I am adding that in those states where it is legal for medicinal use, it is regulated as you say it would be on the federal level. It is currently classed as a Schedule III narcotic.

Clarification: It is a Schedule 1 where it is not legal for medicinal use and a Schedule III where it is legal for medicinal use.

Marijuana is not a narcotic. Not all Schedule III drugs are narcotics.

A state can't class a drug as a Schedule III drug. They can say that they will treat it as if that is what it is...but each state would have to do its own regulating...and as can be seen in California, it doesn't always work out so well.

Each state has its own guidelines for how much a person can have and what conditions qualify for using it and how it will be tracked. Not every state requires that the patient register in any way as a medicinal user.

 

[Studeclunker]

Cannibus(sp?) produces a wide varety of products. The seeds can be pressed to produce a fine oil that is high in many beneficial properties and can be cleanly burned as well. Some varieties can be used to produce hemp. This provides a high quality rope, cord and a coarse cloth (useful in things like burlap bags and clothing). Making a product illegal to make it easier to promote another product (in this case nylon) is not a valid reason for a law. It does not protect the public or provide for their betterment.

In many ways our Federal branch of the government has grossly overstepped their rights and privileges granted by the Constitution. It is not sedition to pass laws that run contrary to Federal law. If said Federal law is in any way impinging (as the food and drug laws do) on State's rights. The Supreme Court recently codified this. The Federal Government is not soverign over the states quite so much as you seem to believe, Luther. Don't forget, "all rights and privileges hereby not specifically granted to the Federal Government are reserved to the states." Many of the agencies of the Federal government impinge on State's Rights. Unless the legislature of any given state agree to these agencies, then their activities in that state are not allowed. Hence, the Federal Government has had considerable trouble enforcing the Marijuana issue in California since the passage of the initiative. Ours is not a monarchy, but an independant Republic formed by (currently) fifty smaller republics. Yes, the States are subject in some ways to the Federal authority (strictly limited by the Constitution). However, and this is important, the Constitution does not make the States slaves of the Federal branch. Be careful of what you call sedition. It is by this word that a tyrant subdues and subjects a free people.

Revrand, If you are referring to Heb. 13:1-7, I would also remind you that the above applies to a limited degree. For the larger part, the governmental authority throughout the known world at that time was Monarcharchial. We are allowed by the type of government we have to change the laws and authorities' powers that govern us. However, in this country they don't quite yet Rule or even Reign over us. So far, only Christ does that. However, I must conceede that doing anything that breaks laws properly enacted by our Federal, State, and local governments is contrary to scripture. Resisting the same who were enacted improperly, in contrast to, or impinging on, the state's rights or our civil liberties, is our right and responsibility according to the Constitution and scripture. I would put it to you and Luther073082 that refusing or neglecting to vote is a greater sin than exceeding the posted speed limit. One is charged by the Constitution to vote and exercise their responsibility in sharing our government's authority. Not doing so is to flaunt that God-given authority and privilege. Voting is not only a right and privilige, it is a sacred responsibility. Something sixty-percent of our population neglects regularly. So that 'authority' that is spoken of that, 'does not bear the sword in vain,' bears his God-given authority by the God-given right of the people to put him there. I firmly believe that our country's current political climate is directly related to it's largely amoral population. Hence, we will see much more abuse of 'State's Rights' and much more serious at the same time.

Now, when it comes to something like continually exceeding the speed limit, I would say that there's a lack of concern for our fellow man. Speed limits are largely set according to specific safety standards and rules. They are not usually arbitrary. One rarely sees hidden speed limit signs or purposely set up "speed traps," (though this does occur). These speed limits may be inconvenient, however they are a reasonable and allowed function of our local government enacted for our good and safety. Therefore disobeying them is not, "loving our neighbor as ourselves." Thus it can be said that exceeding the speed limit is putting our 'neighbor' in danger and thus a sin.

Yes, I am aware that there are people in C.F. that think smoking Cigarettes is a sin. Many of these people also think dancing is a sin. However, I don't know of many Lutherans, who truely understand their faith's beliefs, who think having a smoke in a safe place and tipping back a beer is a sin. It can be easily proven that Martin Luther himself wouldn't disagree with me on that one. The sin occurs when the Beer, Cigarette, Joint, sex, etc, etc, etc... become our masters and thus our god. Then, are we in serious trouble. Not because of the Beer, Wine, Cigs, Joint, sex, etc... but because we have placed something before God in our lives.

 

[QuiltAngel]

Bryne, I never said a state has classed it as anything, but that for where it is legal for medicinal use, it is a Schedule III.

You are right on the narcotic part, I mean controlled substance