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gaijin178 said:You would be surprised I think Seaside Mists. The president hasn't made it a priority. He has supported the cutting of many federally funded programs which help students get ahead and have more opportunities and acces to a college education. A lot of people feel that education shouldn't be the problem of the Federal government and should rely on state funding. My governor has not done much better and has not supported educational programs to improve our public education in California. He has cut back similar programs as the president. We are the 47th in the country as far as funding per pupil in california, 47th in the country as far as performance, and have a counselor to student ratio of 1:1041.
Some people don't feel that education is something everyone needs but at least everyone should have access to it. Now with the No Child Left Behind Act, the provision allowing the military to gather information about students for recruitment purposes is changing as well. It has since been outsourced to a private company that does the marketing for Tower Records. These folks will gather student information such as Names, numbers, SSN, Addresses, grade point averages and if they wanted to, what CD's and DVD's they are buying for recruitment purposes. The sad thing is that these recruiters often make the GI bill look like a good way to help pay for college when in reality, they will never get the $50-70,000 promised unless they are in a highly skilled position such as being a doctor or a lawyer. So since other federally funded programs are being cut which allow access to higher education, they are being put in place by signing up for the military. Sounds moral? Not at all.
Not to hijack the thread too much, I think that it is the same with stem cell research. Americans are so quick to fight anything that scares them. More money is being spent on a pointless war than on education and research for it's citizens. That is a morality which I cannot support. More research and education is what we need. Especially since we are so far behind other "Westernized" countries based on standardized test scores in math and science.
comana said:Fair enough with your moral objection, however, the government paying for the research spreads the cost over all taxpayers vs drug companies who focus on those who use their drugs. I am not for government involvement in many things, but when it serves to benenfit the majority I am.
And if your schools pay that kind of money to teachers you should consider a career change and teach. And as a side note, I understand your concern with the spelling methods, but at the K level it can actually be quite beneficial. It encourages the child to think about sounds and letters before memorization.
Monica02 said:The average teacher's salary in this area is $89,000/ year. The idea that allowing kids to spell words incorrectly is benificial is silly. The children whose spelling I corrected were willing and capable of learning the right way to spell their words. Can't five year olds think about sounds and letters and still memorize?
Monica02 said:do not believe that my tax mony should be used to fund embryonic stem cell research (I do not believe it should be done at all). It should be illegal.
comana said:Sure they can do both at that age, but I don't think you should be overly concerned. Both my children learned that method in K, along with some memorization of words that can't be sounded. They later progressed to a traditional spelling lesson as should be expected in higher grades. They both are doing quite well. All I am saying is don't rush to judgement. But should there be a true issue with you district's curriculum please get involved with your school board, that's why they exist.
Monica02 said:I only had one teacher in kindergarten. She did a fine job of teaching and maintainig discipline in her classroom.
Not believing in the teachings of your Church makes you a heritic.
Monica02 said:I guess I do not understand why they would even bother with the "sound-out" method if they are just going to correct it later. It seems to be a way to employ more teachers.
Seaside Mists said:To be fair, it's not *your* money anymore... After you pay it to the government, it becomes the government's money. Because America is the free country it is, we are given the privledge of deciding where our money goes through our democratic system, by electing officials who most match our spending desires and encouraging them to spend as we'd like them to. Our government is the only time (for some reason) we feel it's our right to tell who's got what used to be our money how to spend it. It facinates me that most people would never dream of handing their money over to the clerk at Wal*Mart and then calling the corporate office to tell them what to do with the $78.98 they just spent at their store, but they feel OK about doing that with the government.
In the end, with all of the programs that are funded by tax money, you end up spending less than half a dollar on each one and it's more than likely that, at some point, all of the money you put into the tax system will go back into your pocket as you take advantage of various tax-funded programs, since at the current moment, (especially with SS the way it is) people take out more than they put in.
Monica02 said:I guess I do not understand why they would even bother with the "sound-out" method if they are just going to correct it later.
Seaside Mists said:Because sounding out is an important skill children need to develop in order to learn spelling phonetically, a skill that (when combined in later years with simple grammar rules) will help them learn to spell all words, instead of memorizing frequently used words. The idea is to teach them how to construct a word through spelling techniques so that when they progress they can construct unfamiliar words and broaden their language and grammar abilities, instead of teaching them to memorize certain words and only use those words repeatedly in their reading, speaking, and writing.
Otherwise, we'd have a bunch of kids who spell like I do... :o
Seaside Mists said:To be fair, it's not *your* money anymore... After you pay it to the government, it becomes the government's money. Because America is the free country it is, we are given the privledge of deciding where our money goes through our democratic system, by electing officials who most match our spending desires and encouraging them to spend as we'd like them to. Our government is the only time (for some reason) we feel it's our right to tell who's got what used to be our money how to spend it. It facinates me that most people would never dream of handing their money over to the clerk at Wal*Mart and then calling the corporate office to tell them what to do with the $78.98 they just spent at their store, but they feel OK about doing that with the government.
In the end, with all of the programs that are funded by tax money, you end up spending less than half a dollar on each one and it's more than likely that, at some point, all of the money you put into the tax system will go back into your pocket as you take advantage of various tax-funded programs, since at the current moment, (especially with SS the way it is) people take out more than they put in.
gaijin178 said:I would love to hear what school district you live in that pays that much at the public level.
And since public officials have to have their salaries posted at least once a year, I would like to see documentation on that.
And maybe educators would be seen as a more socially accepted profession rather than lawyers and stockbrokers. I am in education in LA county and more than half of my salary goes to pay my rent. Show me the morality in that please.
Monica02 said:Spending money at Wal-Mart is a choice of the consumer, we cannot chose to not pay taxes.
Illinois voted down a bill that would have used state tax monies for embryonic stem cell research. The Archdiocese of Chicago was credited as playing a large role in the bill's defeat. I organized a phone-tree campaign at my parish, and while my pro-abortion, anti-life state legislators voted for the wicked bill, I was happy that the Church was able to organize an effort to defeat it. One senator was swayed by the number of Catholic calls he received and changed his vote to no. Cardinal George recently travelled to Springfield to discuss life issues with the guv and other officials.
Our Governor was on the local news that night and sounded like a babbling idiot. His statements made no sense. I think the Cardinal scared him.
Seaside Mists said:The public schools around here are not funded well. Our school funding methods were found unConstitutional and struck down. Many school systems were forced to adopt old contracts for their schools and teachers that dated back decades. In my school system, the contract they enforced dated back to 1967, and incoming teachers who weren't grandfathered got paid the base pay of teachers in 1967... $21,900 a year. As a result our school system filed for bankruptcy and sued the state. Now, 10 years after the ruling, we have another funding method in place, which is currently under fire from high-income towns and schools, one of those schools is suing our school district for compensation of lost revenue and taxes because they are now a "pay out" school and ours is a "pay in" school.
In short, our school system is a mess.
Last I checked, it's about 3 times that of what our teachers make. Our mayer works 12 hours a week and gets paid $120,000 a year. Our airport manager gets paid $90,000 a year despite the fact that our airport has cost us more than 12 million in 2 years from running deficets.
Out of curiousity, is that because the rent there is so high, or the income is so low? This is an honest question, because I saw an article about the housing bubble over there and I was shocked at what people were paying for houses. One person I remember paid $350k for a 1 bedroom, 4 room condo. :o
gaijin178 said:I think that it's both. The condo across the street sold for 1.3 million....I saw a really ugly house that is for sale down the block and is going for 2 million. I don't live in a luxurious complex though just to clarify. I work in education remember...lol
Monica02 said:Not funding the public schools would privatize the system and force competition. Right now the public schools and the teacher's unions have a monopoly on tax monies for education. I really do not see how having six adults, some making about $85,000/ year reading stories and supervising five playtimes in a half day, 9 month, kindergarten class of 13 kids could be efficient. One teacher should be able to handle 13 5 year olds for five hours.
I noticed your Catholic icon. You should do some studying on your faith and perhaps you will understand your Church's teaching on human life.
May 19, 2005
Orthodox Jewish Leaders Call on U.S. House to Support Stem Cell Funding Bill; Castle-Degette Bill Consistent with Jewish Teaching
In advance of an expected U.S. House of Representatives vote next week on legislation that will allow federal funding for some embryonic stem cell research, the Union of Orthodox Jewish Congregations of America, the nations largest Orthodox Jewish umbrella organization representing nearly 1,000 synagogues, has written to House members in support of the legislation. The Union letter is in support of H.R. 810, sponsored by Rep. Mike Castle (R-Del.) and Rep. Diana DeGette (D-Col.) and 200 other sponsors. HR810 will allow public funds to support stem cell research on cells derived from embryos donated to IVF clinics which are in excess of the clinical need of the individuals seeking IVF treatment, and with the prior consultation with and consent of the donors.
Signed by the Unions executive vice president, Rabbi Tzvi Hersh Weinreb, and director of public policy, Nathan J. Diament, the letter states, in pertinent part:
The Jewish tradition places great value upon human life and its preservation. The Torah commands us to treat and cure the ill and to defeat disease wherever possible; to do this is to be the Creators partner in safeguarding the created. The traditional Jewish perspective thus emphasizes that the potential to save and heal human lives is an integral part of valuing human life. Moreover, the traditional Jewish perspective does not accord an embryo outside of the womb the full status of humanhood and its attendant protections. Thus, stem cell research may be consistent with and serve these moral and noble goals; however, such research must not be pursued indiscriminately.
H.R. 810 strikes this careful balance. By insisting that publicly funded stem cell research be conducted on cells derived from embryos donated to IVF clinics and were in excess of the clinical need of the individuals seeking IVF treatment, and by requiring the prior consultation with and consent of the donors, the Stem Cell Research Enhancement Act serves to value and venerate the sanctity of life and our responsibilities to our fellow man and woman.
Bush's Jewish Allies Demur on Stem Cells
By Dana Milbank
Sunday, May 29, 2005; Page A04
The fight to fund embryonic stem cell research has opened a fissure of biblical proportions.
When President Bush last week branded as unethical the stem-cell legislation making its way through Congress, he found himself in a dogma dispute with Orthodox Jews, one of his most valuable constituencies.
The Union of Orthodox Jewish Congregations of America, the umbrella group for the most conservative branch of Judaism, sided with Christian conservatives on the Terri Schiavo case, public displays of the Ten Commandments, opposition to assisted suicide and same-sex marriage, and more federal support for religious charities.
But after the House passed a bill Tuesday endorsing federal funding of embryonic stem cell research, the Orthodox group applauded. The "potential to save and heal human lives is an integral part of valuing human life," it said. "Moreover, the traditional Jewish perspective does not accord an embryo outside of the womb the full status of humanhood and its attendant protections."
That puts the Jews at odds with Bush -- who said the bill "would take us across a critical ethical line by creating new incentives for the ongoing destruction of emerging human life" -- and with House Majority Leader Tom DeLay (R-Tex.), who condemned "the moral catastrophe of means-justifying-the-ends morality." It also conflicted with the Family Research Council, a Christian group that called the bill "unconscionable" and "morally abhorrent."
It was a reminder, as the Jewish group's public policy director, Nathan Diament, wrote in the Forward last year, that "Orthodox Jews are not merely evangelicals who read the Bible right to left."
National Review, a conservative publication that fiercely defends Bush, took an unusual tack; it published an article on its Web site explaining "why Judaism is wrong on stem cells." The article, by Eric Cohen of the Ethics and Public Policy Center, describes the position of the Orthodox rabbis as "morally unconvincing," "irresponsible," "seemingly disingenuous" and "misguided." "Jews," Cohen writes, "seem to have forgotten even the minimal liberal wisdom of tolerance -- the wisdom of not trampling on the moral opinions of their fellow citizens, like pro-life Christians, who believe embryo destruction is not only evil but the gravest evil."
The Jewish group did the Christian thing and turned the other cheek. "We have great respect for the president's view because he bases it on moral principle," Diament said.
...The traditional Jewish perspective thus emphasizes that the potential to save and heal human lives is an integral part of valuing human life. Moreover, the traditional Jewish perspective does not accord an embryo outside of the womb the full status of humanhood and its attendant protections...
Nontransplanted embryos fertilized artificially in vitro have no standing as fetuses in Jewish law. Former Tel Aviv Chief Sefardi Rabbi David Halevi rules that "all eggs fertilized in vitro have no standing as embryos...and one may discard them if they were not chosen for implantation, as the law of abortion applies only to procedures in the womb...But in vitro, as was said, there is no prohibition at all."
A similar ruling is offered by former Chief Sefardi Rabbi of Israel Mordechai Eliyahu, who writes that, "all fertilized eggs which are destined to be implanted in the mother's womb should not be destroyed, as a live fetus will yet develop from them. But those eggs which have not been chosen for implantation may be discarded." Neither authority offers any detailed analysis of his legal ruling, apparently considering the position to be obvious and noncontroversial from the perspective of Jewish law and ethics. Indeed, Rabbi David J. Bleich has pointed out that...even an aborted fetus in the early stages of gestation does not require a funeral.
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