Staying Relevant

[SQLservant]

Today the C of E commemorates that great hymnodist, John Mason Neale. I read on a blog (some sort of Western Orthodox blogger, I think) that Fr Neale's eloquent translations were spurred by a belief that the Church at large would lose the ancient hymns and a precious piece of her heritage if they were not put into the common language.

150 years on, we have a similar situation. We all know of some Christians who don't know or care about the ancient Church's wisdom, worship, worldview, and witness, believing them to be mere trivia with no application today.

My question is, how do we combat this? In an age of relativism, the sure grounding of the faith is needed now more than ever. How do you believe we as Christians can stay relevant in this age while remaining true to the faith once delivered to the saints?

 

[Sean611]

Today the C of E commemorates that great hymnodist, John Mason Neale. I read on a blog (some sort of Western Orthodox blogger, I think) that Fr Neale's eloquent translations were spurred by a belief that the Church at large would lose the ancient hymns and a precious piece of her heritage if they were not put into the common language.

150 years on, we have a similar situation. We all know of some Christians who don't know or care about the ancient Church's wisdom, worship, worldview, and witness, believing them to be mere trivia with no application today.

My question is, how do we combat this? In an age of relativism, the sure grounding of the faith is needed now more than ever. How do you believe we as Christians can stay relevant in this age while remaining true to the faith once delivered to the saints?

I think that a big part of it is poor catechism. For the most part, the liturgical churches do a pretty poor job of educating newcomers on the basics of the Christian faith and in the traditions of the church. Just take a look at any Pew Research poll, liturgical churches consistently rank the lowest in terms of the basics of faith. Heck, a 1992 poll revealed that only 30% of Roman Catholics believe in transubstantiation! If I remember correctly, that number is around 22% now!

My parish used to have virtually no catechism at all, especially if you came from any sort of Christian background. Basically, it was assumed that you already understood the basics if you had a background in Christianity and my parish is a traditionalist parish! Things are much improved today, but if one doesn't even understand the basics, how can we expect them to understand or even care about the traditions of the church? Also, this doesn't just apply to liberal parishes or churches, it is a problem across the board.

 

[MKJ]

One thing that strikes me is that musical education all round has really suffered in recent years.

Many schools have cut music programs to save money or teach to tests. And while in the past it was common for even uneducated people to sing in groups for entertainment, that has also become fairly uncommon.

 

[lesliedellow]

We all know of some Christians who don't know or care about the ancient Church's wisdom, worship, worldview, and witness, believing them to be mere trivia with no application today.

My question is, how do we combat this?

They are probably displaying the same contempt for the past that is to be found in the new atheism. So the question is, what will it take to bring about the kind of cultural shift that ends the worship of all things new? Whatever it is, I suspect it might be something fairly traumatic. Five years ago the world's financial system was brought to the brink of collapse, so we have had a taste of the kind of thing which could happen.

 

[AlexBP]

Each of us can, on the personal level, be knowledgeable about traditional Christian beliefs and how they are relevant to modern life. We can look for opportunities to teach others about the topic, to recommend books, to have Bible studies and other courses. Education does not take place only in formal classroom settings.

 

[Cjwinnit]

I think that a big part of it is poor catechism. For the most part, the liturgical churches do a pretty poor job of educating newcomers on the basics of the Christian faith and in the traditions of the church. Just take a look at any Pew Research poll, liturgical churches consistently rank the lowest in terms of the basics of faith. Heck, a 1992 poll revealed that only 30% of Roman Catholics believe in transubstantiation! If I remember correctly, that number is around 22% now!

My parish used to have virtually no catechism at all, especially if you came from any sort of Christian background. Basically, it was assumed that you already understood the basics if you had a background in Christianity and my parish is a traditionalist parish! Things are much improved today, but if one doesn't even understand the basics, how can we expect them to understand or even care about the traditions of the church? Also, this doesn't just apply to liberal parishes or churches, it is a problem across the board.

I couldn't agree with this post more - and it's true in the UK also.

 

[SQLservant]

Indeed. Do you suspect the decline of catechesis to be related to the rise of relativism and its particular manifestation in the belief that a "personal relationship with Jesus" is all that's necessary, though no one ever defines what one of those looks like?

 

[Cjwinnit]

Indeed. Do you suspect the decline of catechesis to be related to the rise of relativism and its particular manifestation in the belief that a "personal relationship with Jesus" is all that's necessary, though no one ever defines what one of those looks like?

A rejection of the notion of absolute truth makes formal catechesis difficult. I know a fair few missionaries to students and they're fairly convinced that most students are postmodern in outlook. I'm still of the opinion that catechesis can work, particularly with students who study STEM subjects. Many also have a hankering after more traditional style of worship. Linking formal worship with the ancient creeds, Church history, discipleship and a accountability with those whom you share your faith with and you're on to a winner.

If you want more detail you're more than welcome to PM me.

 

[ebia]

Today the C of E commemorates that great hymnodist, John Mason Neale. I read on a blog (some sort of Western Orthodox blogger, I think) that Fr Neale's eloquent translations were spurred by a belief that the Church at large would lose the ancient hymns and a precious piece of her heritage if they were not put into the common language.

150 years on, we have a similar situation. We all know of some Christians who don't know or care about the ancient Church's wisdom, worship, worldview, and witness, believing them to be mere trivia with no application today.

My question is, how do we combat this? In an age of relativism, the sure grounding of the faith is needed now more than ever. How do you believe we as Christians can stay relevant in this age while remaining true to the faith once delivered to the saints?

By understanding how the faith is relevant.

An awful lot of what passes for Christianity doesn't just look irrelevant - it is.

 

[Gnarwhal]

Today the C of E commemorates that great hymnodist, John Mason Neale. I read on a blog (some sort of Western Orthodox blogger, I think) that Fr Neale's eloquent translations were spurred by a belief that the Church at large would lose the ancient hymns and a precious piece of her heritage if they were not put into the common language.

150 years on, we have a similar situation. We all know of some Christians who don't know or care about the ancient Church's wisdom, worship, worldview, and witness, believing them to be mere trivia with no application today.

My question is, how do we combat this? In an age of relativism, the sure grounding of the faith is needed now more than ever. How do you believe we as Christians can stay relevant in this age while remaining true to the faith once delivered to the saints?

As someone who's seeking a "home", in that I've left irreverent evangelicalism for proper Christianity (be it Orthodoxy, Catholicism or Anglicanism), I find the churches who concern themselves with maintaining historical fidelity to be the most compelling.

One of the biggest problems with evangelicalism is that they're so focused on what goes on outside of the church service, that the church service itself has suffered irreparable damage.

So to answer your question, I think the way the Anglican church can "combat" this by always prioritizing the service itself and the Eucharist within that in a historically faithful manner. I'm convinced when that's the point, then everything else falls into place.

People are losing interest in "relevance" as it's defined by evanglicals. Believe me, I've heard countless accounts and discussions referring to how many people are leaving whatever evangelical group they belong to for something more transcendent like Anglicanism, Roman Catholicism or Eastern Orthodoxy. They're understanding that it doesn't matter how many awesome programs an evangelical church might have, or how fashionable it's worship is or even how well it evangelizes. If the foundation of Christ in the Eucharist isn't laid then everything else eventually dissolves.

 

[SQLservant]

As someone who's seeking a "home", in that I've left irreverent evangelicalism for proper Christianity (be it Orthodoxy, Catholicism or Anglicanism), I find the churches who concern themselves with maintaining historical fidelity to be the most compelling.

One of the biggest problems with evangelicalism is that they're so focused on what goes on outside of the church service, that the church service itself has suffered irreparable damage.

So to answer your question, I think the way the Anglican church can "combat" this by always prioritizing the service itself and the Eucharist within that in a historically faithful manner. I'm convinced when that's the point, then everything else falls into place.

People are losing interest in "relevance" as it's defined by evanglicals. Believe me, I've heard countless accounts and discussions referring to how many people are leaving whatever evangelical group they belong to for something more transcendent like Anglicanism, Roman Catholicism or Eastern Orthodoxy. They're understanding that it doesn't matter how many awesome programs an evangelical church might have, or how fashionable it's worship is or even how well it evangelizes. If the foundation of Christ in the Eucharist isn't laid then everything else eventually dissolves.

As Lewis said, Protestantism in decline just fades into the ether.

Prayers for you in your search for a spiritual home as well.

 

[lesliedellow]

Here is what "staying relevant" means to some:

Church of England Envisions 'Christianity-Centered Pagan Church'

It has finally persuaded me to switch denominations. It won't even achieve what it is supposed to achieve, because the message comes through loud and clear that this branch of Christianity has lost its self belief.

 

[Gnarwhal]

Here is what "staying relevant" means to some:

Church of England Envisions 'Christianity-Centered Pagan Church'

It has finally persuaded me to switch denominations. It won't even achieve what it is supposed to achieve, because the message comes through loud and clear that this branch of Christianity has lost its self belief.

Switch from what to what? If you don't mind me asking...

Personally, I don't really trust sources like The Christian Post for information on churches outside of evangelicalism, but that's my opinion. Their bias is in favor of evangelicalism and thus they view Apostolic Christianity through a very unfavorable lens. That's putting it diplomatically too.

 

[lesliedellow]

Switch from what to what? If you don't mind me asking...

Personally, I don't really trust sources like The Christian Post for information on churches outside of evangelicalism, but that's my opinion. Their bias is in favor of evangelicalism and thus they view Apostolic Christianity through a very unfavorable lens. That's putting it diplomatically too.

Unfortunately you don't have to rely upon The Christian Post; it was in a couple of the "quality" British newspapers as well. As to what I will be switching to, probably the URC, which was formed from the merger of the Presbyterian, Congregationalist, and a couple of other churches, in the UK.

 

[Doctor Strangelove]

Indeed. Do you suspect the decline of catechesis to be related to the rise of relativism and its particular manifestation in the belief that a "personal relationship with Jesus" is all that's necessary, though no one ever defines what one of those looks like?

Yes, relativism and also subjectivism. So we have the idea of it's just Jesus and me. That and the idea I don't need some church to help me understand the Bible. Liberals might reject historical creeds because they are old and seem confining while conservatives might reject creeds because if you are truly saved, all you need is the Bible and you can interpret it all on your own. In America there is in many quarters a disinterest in and ignorance of history. Also a prideful independence - why should I ask what St. Augustine said about it? I'll just make something up that feels right - that sort of thing.

 

[Cjwinnit]

Unfortunately you don't have to rely upon The Christian Post; it was in a couple of the "quality" British newspapers as well. As to what I will be switching to, probably the URC, which was formed from the merger of the Presbyterian, Congregationalist, and a couple of other churches, in the UK.

The URC and the C of E have similar issues: Some of the churches in each are great, some absolutely terrible and most in between. Joining another man-made denomination won't guarantee orthodoxy.

That said, I hope you find somewhere good. God bless! Keep us informed

 

[ebia]

Unfortunately you don't have to rely upon The Christian Post; it was in a couple of the "quality" British newspapers as well..

Unfortunately, even mainstream British media is very poor at reporting religious stories accurately.

 

[MKJ]

Unfortunately, even mainstream British media is very poor at reporting religious stories accurately.

I think it is the same with Canadian and American sources, and I would guess non-English ones as well. Very few these days seem to ave a religious issues reporter on staff, so such stories are just thrown to the person available. So they may or may not have the knowledge to report accurately, or even know the right kind of questions to ask.

It's rather like when people with no knowledge of science report of scientific topics - the results tend to be mediocre, at best.

 

[ebia]

I can't read the article, but this is more likely to be vaguely accurate:

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/article3797917.ece

 

[lesliedellow]

Unfortunately, even mainstream British media is very poor at reporting religious stories accurately.

Speaking as somebody who considered himself an Anglican until very recently, I think the real question is why that story is even believable. Would somebody believe a story about the Pope sanctioning pagan services? or, at the other end of the spectrum, the Baptists doing so?

Fifty years ago nobody would have believed a story about Anglicans doing so, but today they would, and the Anglican Church has got itself to blame for that.