There is a catholic poster who has the words (in green) where mine says contributor "Mary sees all and knows all" so some do find her God.
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There is a catholic poster who has the words (in green) where mine says contributor "Mary sees all and knows all" so some do find her God.God is God because of His attributes, He is everywhere (Omnipresent). He is all knowing (Omniscience). He is all powerful (Omnipotent). These are attributes that only "a god" can have. The Bible and history clearly reveal that there is only ONE with these attributes: hence there is only one God.
So how can Mary and the saints hear your prayers to them if 10,000 other people are praying at the same time. Or are Mary and the saints like God?
A Catholic prays to Mary ten times to one every time he says a Rosary. Who is preeminent: Mary or God the Father? He believes that Mary can hear his prayer and at the same time hear the prayer of another Catholic a thousand miles away. If that is true, then Mary is omnipresent! He believes that Mary can discern the intent/need behind the repetitious prayer he recites. If that is true, then Mary is omniscient! He further believes that Mary has power to answer prayer as well as perform supernatural miracles. If this is true, then Mary is omnipotent! Now then, Mary is OMNIPOTENT, OMNISCIENCE, and OMNIPRESENT just like the Creator. Mary then, according to Roman Catholic teaching, is a God.
Is this view true?
Some people here are under the impression that the word worship means to bow and to kneel and sing and to pray and that is the extent of the meaning of worship. You have fallen into the ancient pagan trap of believing that such simple gestures requiring little or no effort constitutes worship. Thus you accuse Catholics ,who venerate statues and images with simple gestures, of idolatry. And you think that praying to a saint is worshipping the dead. You have no idea of the true meaning of worship.
Let?s first examine these simple gestures. When a performer bows to his audience, is he worshipping them? When a dancer courtseys, does she worship her partner? When the oriental gentleman bows in greeting, does he worship his guest? Of course not, none of these things are worship..
True what Trento says, though. You can kneel before a statue, kiss its feet repeatedly, rub it with oil every day, say prayers to it, see miracles come out of it, even cuddle it to bed if you wanted.
But you wouldn't be worshipping the statue because you simply are not worshipping it.
It sounds ridiculous, but it's true.
They are not on earth for us to do unto them..They are with the Lord.. So why make an image of them..
Jesus says that they Honor me with thier lips but their hearts are far from me.. To Honor God we need to take Heed to His word and do what His word tells us to do.. Not do what it tells us not to do and then say well it isn't a heart thing..
There is a catholic poster who has the words (in green) where mine says contributor "Mary sees all and knows all" so some do find her God.
EXACTLY!Thank you!
(I am allowed to use the bowing iconhere at CF, right? )
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EXACTLY! Thank you!
(I am allowed to use the bowing icon here at CF, right? )
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That's too bad, since what we do violates no command of God's. . . . . .
I guess the Japanese and the Chinese better stop bowing to each other when they great one another then too . . .
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Lets cut out all the waffle and get to the Hebrew and Greek meanings, shall we?
Paul uses the related Greek word leitourgia (i.e. translated service) to refer to a monetary gift collected for the Jerusalem Christians6 and for the assistance he received from others7 and the term leitourgos (i.e. translated serves or servant) is used of Christ8, angels9, rulers10, Epaphroditus's delivery of the Philippian gift11, and of ministry to the Gentiles12. Thus, the term latreia and its cognates are directly associated with both service & sacrifice when directed toward God. It might have been better if the translators had chosen the words 'serve', 'service' and 'minister' instead of worship.
Other terms are translated as worship including the Greek word proskyneo13 and its Hebrew equivalent shachac.14[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Both of these terms refer to a posture of submission and thus an acknowledgment of God's sovereignty. Obeisance requires an attitude of reverential fear. This is evident in the behaviors of bending the knee (i.e. gonu or gonupeteo) and bowing down (histahawa or shachac {Heb.} or proskyneo {Gk. to kiss forward}) which are associated with worship. It should be noted, however, that these postures are associated with other things too (i.e. one can have this attitude in petitions to God, gods or man). [/FONT]
by Lee Campbell, PhD.
*snickers*
There we go. You can do all sorts of things that seem like worshipping, but you're not 'cause you're not and it doesn't matter what other people see because God knows you're not worshipping.
Wonder what you're doing with the statue then. Don't answer. I'm not supposed to question. It's all just God-and-you, God-and-you. No need whatsoever to take into the account of other people.
Suppose we can throw this verse out of the Bible: "It is better not to take meat or wine or to do anything which might be a cause of trouble to your brother." Romans 14:21
Well, then you have a problem as your position contradicts actual law and practice in the ancient Jewish religion . . for they bowed down to the Ark, which is a graven image according to the definitions being bantered about by some protestants in this thread .. .
They bowed down to the brazen serpent . . looking to it even for their salvation from the bites of the firey serpents . . .
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Noooo!!!!!!Originally Posted by Dragons87
*snickers*
There we go. You can do all sorts of things that seem like worshipping, but you're not 'cause you're not and it doesn't matter what other people see because God knows you're not worshipping.
Wonder what you're doing with the statue then. Don't answer. I'm not supposed to question. It's all just God-and-you, God-and-you. No need whatsoever to take into the account of other people.
Suppose we can throw this verse out of the Bible: "It is better not to take meat or wine or to do anything which might be a cause of trouble to your brother." Romans 14:21
Does that last part help clear it up:the behaviors of bending the knee (i.e. gonu or gonupeteo) and bowing down (histahawa or shachac {Heb.} or proskyneo {Gk. to kiss forward}) which are associated with worship. It should be noted, however, that these postures are associated with other things too (i.e. one can have this attitude in petitions to ....man).
I have what I need to remember them from.. The word they preached and penned as God breathed them to do it.
How can we say we are of God and not do the things He commanded us to do?
This is my whole point.. God says don't.. You say that well He didn't really mean that.. Then when asked about it you make up excuses for it..
So you are speaking for the other poster, knowing exactly what she meant.LOL
HD, you crack me up!Honestly, I would find that to be a humorous, not a serious statement.
Haven't you ever heard or used the expression, "mother sees all and knows all"
Do those who say this mean it literally?
Of course not.
Mary is our mother . . .and so, in keeping with this joke of motherhood, she sees all and knows all as all mothers "do".
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What do you mean? like bowing the knee to the Queen or the Pope?
If that is what it takes to strenghthen ones Faith, LET IT BE DONE!!!.I am glad that you have what you need.
I find engaging in such devotions in the Catholic faith an very strong help to my faith.
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