statuettes.... Error?!?

[Uphill Battle]

hello all.

I was waiting for my fiancee to finish getting her hair done, when I came across a place where they were selling statuettes of Mary, Christ, etc...

I ordinarily don't care much about the statuettes... I've seen them before, and RCC believes many things about Mary that I do not, but that is their perogative.

A few left me with a disturbed feeling, however.

For instance:



This statue was titled "Mary instructs Christ." In her hand is a bible.



this one is called "lighting the way."


this one depicts Mary as some kind of warrior. On the chalice, it has JHS... dont' know what that means.

did a count on the statuettes. (the table went around the corner, not pictured.) 3 statuettes of Christ. 2 of Mother Theresa. a dabbling of statuettes of unnamed saints. 58 statuettes of Mary.

Now, whether or not Marian Dogmas of RCC are true or not (I do not wish do debate that.) Even if they ARE true....

does the fact that Marian statuettes out number those of Christ nearly 20 to 1 not speak of the attention given Mary as opposed to Christ?

does the fact that they depict Mary instructing Christ in the scriptures not bug anyone?

The other two photos would require some explaination to me, but they left me feeling oddly bothered.

Another one, not pictured, showed Mary standing on a snake. I know what scripture this is in reference to, but the scripture states
15And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

In which the seed (Christ) would bruise his head (the serpent) NOT Mary.

Perhaps some clarification is in order.

However, I do not want this to turn in to a flame war. Please refrain from doing so.

I simply want to question RCC members on what appears to be error, most tellingly the crushing of the snake, the Mary teaching Christ scripture, and the overwhelming amount of attention paid to Mary in statuettes... as opposed to Jesus.

Any thoughts?

 

[Isaiah 53]

Cant see your pictures...

PAX

 

[Uphill Battle]

they working now?

 

[thereselittleflower]

Nope!



.

 

[Uphill Battle]

ok, can't get them to work right... will try posting one at a time here.

 

[icedtea]

I turned on ewtn and saw a sister offering up items for sale including a stauette of Faustina.
My parents had a little statue thingy and it always scared me.

 

[thereselittleflower]

hello all.

I was waiting for my fiancee to finish getting her hair done, when I came across a place where they were selling statuettes of Mary, Christ, etc...

I ordinarily don't care much about the statuettes... I've seen them before, and RCC believes many things about Mary that I do not, but that is their perogative.

A few left me with a disturbed feeling, however.

For instance:



This statue was titled "Mary instructs Christ." In her hand is a bible.

Jewish mothers were the child's first teacher . .

this one is called "lighting the way."

Can't see the picture so can't comment.

this one depicts Mary as some kind of warrior. On the chalice, it has JHS... dont' know what that means.

JHS is a symbol for Jesus Christ

Are we not all spiritual warriors?

did a count on the statuettes. (the table went around the corner, not pictured.) 3 statuettes of Christ. 2 of Mother Theresa. a dabbling of statuettes of unnamed saints. 58 statuettes of Mary.

Now, whether or not Marian Dogmas of RCC are true or not (I do not wish do debate that.) Even if they ARE true....

does the fact that Marian statuettes out number those of Christ nearly 20 to 1 not speak of the attention given Mary as opposed to Christ?

No, for any attention given to Mary is attention given to Jesus.

does the fact that they depict Mary instructing Christ in the scriptures not bug anyone?

No, for it was the role of Jewish mothers to instruct their young children. . I would hazard a guess that the child Jesus is depicted as a young child. . .

The other two photos would require some explaination to me, but they left me feeling oddly bothered.

Can't see them.

Another one, not pictured, showed Mary standing on a snake. I know what scripture this is in reference to, but the scripture states
15And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

In which the seed (Christ) would bruise his head (the serpent) NOT Mary.

Umm .. the gender is netural. Not "he". . but "it"

Perhaps some clarification is in order.

Does the above help?

However, I do not want this to turn in to a flame war. Please refrain from doing so.

Good luck!

You could have taken this to the OBOB forum to ask your questions to avoid a flame war. .. but you did it here . . you could always ask for it to be moved.

I simply want to question RCC members on what appears to be error, most tellingly the crushing of the snake, the Mary teaching Christ scripture, and the overwhelming amount of attention paid to Mary in statuettes... as opposed to Jesus.

Any thoughts?

If you simply want to question RCC members on these statues, then why didn't you ask in OBOB?

Why don't you ask to have the thread moved?


.

 

[Uphill Battle]

Jewish mothers were the child's first teacher . . No, for it was the role of Jewish mothers to instruct their young children. . I would hazard a guess that the child Jesus is depicted as a young child. . .

riiiight, but teaching Jesus scripture? Come on now....

JHS is a symbol for Jesus Christ

Are we not all spiritual warriors?

true enough. Can't get the pictures to work. so the two can be ignored for now.

No, for any attention given to Mary is attention given to Jesus.

fail to see how this is possible.... they are statues of Mary, not Jesus. simply saying that any attention to Mary is attention to Christ seems spurious to me.

Umm .. the gender is netural. Not "he". . but "it"

right. IT (the seed) is the seed of the woman, what is the decendant of Eve that crushes the head of the serpent? It's a prophecy about Christ.

You could have taken this to the OBOB forum to ask your questions to avoid a flame war. .. but you did it here . . you could always ask for it to be moved.
If you simply want to question RCC members on these statues, then why didn't you ask in OBOB?
Why don't you ask to have the thread moved?

Because if I disagree with what is stated, I cannot rebut it. OBOB doesn't really brook discussion.

 

[FrauleinElsa]

hello all.

I was waiting for my fiancee to finish getting her hair done, when I came across a place where they were selling statuettes of Mary, Christ, etc...

I ordinarily don't care much about the statuettes... I've seen them before, and RCC believes many things about Mary that I do not, but that is their perogative.

A few left me with a disturbed feeling, however.

For instance:



This statue was titled "Mary instructs Christ." In her hand is a bible.



this one is called "lighting the way."


this one depicts Mary as some kind of warrior. On the chalice, it has JHS... dont' know what that means.

did a count on the statuettes. (the table went around the corner, not pictured.) 3 statuettes of Christ. 2 of Mother Theresa. a dabbling of statuettes of unnamed saints. 58 statuettes of Mary.

Now, whether or not Marian Dogmas of RCC are true or not (I do not wish do debate that.) Even if they ARE true....

does the fact that Marian statuettes out number those of Christ nearly 20 to 1 not speak of the attention given Mary as opposed to Christ?

does the fact that they depict Mary instructing Christ in the scriptures not bug anyone?

The other two photos would require some explaination to me, but they left me feeling oddly bothered.

Another one, not pictured, showed Mary standing on a snake. I know what scripture this is in reference to, but the scripture states
15And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

In which the seed (Christ) would bruise his head (the serpent) NOT Mary.

Perhaps some clarification is in order.

However, I do not want this to turn in to a flame war. Please refrain from doing so.

I simply want to question RCC members on what appears to be error, most tellingly the crushing of the snake, the Mary teaching Christ scripture, and the overwhelming amount of attention paid to Mary in statuettes... as opposed to Jesus.

Any thoughts?

Hi,

I'd like to be able to see the statues in question if you are able to post them again. I agree, this shouldn't be a flame war, but I must be honest. I am a purist and I don't agree with any theology that puts Mary, angels, saints or anything over Jesus. I just came from a "church" where they didn't even preach about His birth and only mentioned His death once a year. So, I'm real sensitive to that kind of thing now. That being said, I don't like statues anyway. In my humble human opinion they are something made by man, no matter how well intentioned and therefore I don't agree with them. And the statues you mentioned would creep me out. But that's just me.

 

[Rhamiel]

it does not bother me that there are 58 statues of Mary, but I am a little miffed that there are not 157 statues of Jesus, oh and the saints!!!! come on, you did not drop by a normel catholic shop, the local cathedral might have a book store conected to it, you should check it out and see what a real catholic shop looks like and not some mall stuff
The idea of God being a child is hard for us to understand, Jesus even wants us to be childlike in faith. Did Mary teach Jesus how to read? or scripture? It would make sense.
Mary standing on a snake and a moon is very common in art... wow just found this out, that comes from a mistranslation of the Douay-Rheims bible, read all about it here http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/1997/9709chap.asp

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I got a question. Why are the Mary and Catholic threads always on this board instead of the OBOB board?
Just wondering. Thanks.

Beyond the "Veil," in the "Most Holy," there was but one piece of furniture--the "Ark." It was a rectangular box made of wood overlaid with gold, having a lid or cover of pure gold called the Propitiatory or "Mercy Seat." Upon it (and of the same piece), were two cherubs of gold--beaten work. Within this "Ark" (under the Propitiatory) were placed the golden bowl of manna, Aaron's rod that budded, and the two tables of the Law. (`Heb. 9:4`) Upon the Propitiatory a supernatural light appeared, shining out between the cherubim, representing the Divine presence. This was the only light in the "Most Holy."
It is noticeable that all the furniture inside the Tabernacle was of gold, or covered with gold, while in the "Court" everything was of copper.

 

[Rhamiel]

Der Fraulein posted " I don't agree with any theology that puts Mary, angels, saints or anything over Jesus"
I agree 100%,
UpHill posted "they are statues of Mary, not Jesus. simply saying that any attention to Mary is attention to Christ seems spurious to me."
What it seems to you is not something I can controll, we are not lying though, we really believe that attention to Mary is attention to Jesus, that is why marian devotion is a good thing, it brings our minds and souls closer to Jesus

 

[HisKid1973]

it brings our minds and souls closer to Jesus[/size]

...We can use the word to do the same thing...We can bring every thought captive to Christ..His word is a lamp to our feet and a light to our path..I don't need to look at an icon or stare at a picture to do this, correct...I can meditate on His words

 

[thereselittleflower]

riiiight, but teaching Jesus scripture? Come on now....

Why not?

true enough. Can't get the pictures to work. so the two can be ignored for now.

fail to see how this is possible.... they are statues of Mary, not Jesus. simply saying that any attention to Mary is attention to Christ seems spurious to me.

That is how it seems to you, I understand. That does not mean that is how it is to us. I can tell you that from personal experience that the closer I get to Mary, the closer I get to Jesus at the same time. Don't ask me to explain it, but it is a true and real phenomena.

right. IT (the seed) is the seed of the woman, what is the decendant of Eve that crushes the head of the serpent? It's a prophecy about Christ.

The prophecy is about two people . .Mary and Jesus.

"It" is gender neutral, and in the Hebrew, is not specific enough to be so dogmatic about it. It can be seen as both.

Because if I disagree with what is stated, I cannot rebut it. OBOB doesn't really brook discussion.

Then why not the denominational discussion forum where it can be limted to Catholics but allow full discussion with us?

You would be much more likely to avoid a flame war there.


.

 

[Uphill Battle]

Der Fraulein posted " I don't agree with any theology that puts Mary, angels, saints or anything over Jesus"
I agree 100%,
UpHill posted "they are statues of Mary, not Jesus. simply saying that any attention to Mary is attention to Christ seems spurious to me."
What it seems to you is not something I can controll, we are not lying though, we really believe that attention to Mary is attention to Jesus, that is why marian devotion is a good thing, it brings our minds and souls closer to Jesus

I am not doubting the sincerity of your belief.

What I doubt is the disparities.

 

[thereselittleflower]

...We can use the word to do the same thing...We can bring every thought captive to Christ..His word is a lamp to our feet and a light to our path..I don't need to look at an icon or stare at a picture to do this, correct...I can meditate on His words

Kim, how can using one to help bring one closer to Jesus be better than using both?

I used one for 30+ years. . the momment I started using both it was like being in a supersonic jet in comparison.

You are perfectly free to use just one . . . .

I don't want to use just one.


.

 

[LadyGarnetRose]

Just to place this forward not for a flame war but for some understand of Talmudic based Traditional Rabbinical Law. Mary would NEVER have taught Yeshua! Mary wouldn't have even HAD a piece of scripture in her hand EVER!

Women were FORBIDDEN from ever touching the Scripture.

Women did not teach their male children scripture, that was the job of the Father and the Rabbis. Women did not handle scripture for fear they might be unclean. Women were not taught the laws other than the pertain mitzvot that applied to them.

 

[winsome]

Another one, not pictured, showed Mary standing on a snake. I know what scripture this is in reference to, but the scripture states
15And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

In which the seed (Christ) would bruise his head (the serpent) NOT Mary.

Perhaps some clarification is in order.

I understand this arose from an error in an early translation from the Latin Vulgate version of the bible into English (as "she shall bruise its head") and became a popluar statue of the Virgin Mary that kept getting copied.

 

[RccWarrior]

Mary standing on a snake is in Revelation, and really, so what if there are statues of these kinds? If they really "spook" you out (some of you exaggerate as if the statue will get you or something..) don't look..

 

[icedtea]

Ha! no, its just me. All dolls freak me out. I once spent the night at a friends who had this doll colelction. When she came into the room next morning she started laughing as I had turned all the dolls to face the wall instead of me!