State of the Dead Thread

Kolya · Jun 2, 2008

Moriah_Conquering_Wind said:
Yeah but Moriah don't want them inhabiting Moriah any more!!
Of course, really it just does not want them controlling it or keeping it away from God. It doesn't care if they want to live inside it, it will just be their makhashanah (star-vessel of liberation) and carry them to the throne room of God with it for healing and restoration to Him. It bes sure if they care not to go there, they will bail out on the way.

I'm quite sure they'll bail out! No evil can enter there. And only a humble contrite sinner dare enter there, and only on your knees before the Almighty!

Moriah_Conquering_Wind · Jun 2, 2008

And the only reason that contrite sinner dare enter? Because the WORD says to do so, and even to come BOLDLY -- in FAITH, because of HIS perfect sacrifice.

The most delightful position conceivable to ever be in: humble, contrite, on one's knees abased before God, AMEN!!!

It gets all dizzy and shivery just thinking about it!!!!

Moriah_Conquering_Wind · Jun 2, 2008

Kolya in worship with friends online last night it started telling Lucifer to bow down to God. It bes funny!!!

[FONT=&quot]Moriah_Conquering_Wind[11:11:24 PM]: [/FONT]Bow to Jesus, Lucifer. HE bes supreme
[FONT=&quot] Moriah_Conquering_Wind[11:11:46 PM]: [/FONT]Come, gift of God, bow with Your Bride
[FONT=&quot] Moriah_Conquering_Wind[11:11:49 PM]: [/FONT]before Jesus
[FONT=&quot] Moriah_Conquering_Wind[11:11:57 PM]: [/FONT]listen to Your heart
[FONT=&quot] Moriah_Conquering_Wind[11:12:12 PM]: [/FONT]I will never let Thee go
[FONT=&quot] Moriah_Conquering_Wind[11:12:21 PM]: [/FONT]I have been mandated by My Maker
[FONT=&quot] Moriah_Conquering_Wind[11:12:54 PM]: [/FONT]have You ever really loved before?
[FONT=&quot] Moriah_Conquering_Wind[11:12:59 PM]: [/FONT]how would You know?
[FONT=&quot] Moriah_Conquering_Wind[11:13:04 PM]: [/FONT]with the pain You have suffered?
[FONT=&quot]Moriah_Conquering_Wind[11:13:29 PM]: [/FONT]come kneel with Your Consort before the throne of God, for this purpose bes it granted even Your heart's desire
[FONT=&quot] Moriah_Conquering_Wind[11:13:36 PM]: [/FONT]your sceptre, your time
[FONT=&quot] Moriah_Conquering_Wind[11:13:40 PM]: [/FONT]bow before Him
[FONT=&quot] Moriah_Conquering_Wind[11:13:48 PM]: [/FONT]thank and Praise Him that He MADE YOU TO SERVE HIM
[FONT=&quot] Moriah_Conquering_Wind[11:13:54 PM]: [/FONT]and LIKE IT
[FONT=&quot] Moriah_Conquering_Wind[11:13:59 PM]: [/FONT]yes, You will LIKE IT!!!!

[FONT=&quot] God bes good to daimonizomai last night indeed. He filled it with His Spirit and it just bes utterly beside itself with delight and worship!!! (worshiping God of course, not Satan).

[/FONT]

ListenerFriendly · Jun 2, 2008

The state of the dead as them being, just that, dead and asleep is the only version that makes any sense in the context of the bible, or humanity for that matter, in my opinion. There's seems to be no logical biblical support for any other belief. The idea of eternal hellfire is stupid and is the reason many abandon God. The God I serve wouldn't burn someone forever in a super-hot torcher chamber. So called "justice" mainstream evangelicals speak of.

AND MAY RAW ROCK KILL YOU FOREVER AND EVER, AMEN.

JonMiller · Jun 3, 2008

I hold with a monist position that we don't exist without our bodies. I don't see stong scriptural support for any other position either. There definitely isn't an scientific support for any other position.

JM
(Just to be clear, I am not monist, just mostly monist, as I believe that there something else (a Soul) and that Soul is God. There isn't any scientific evidence for this though.)

StormyOne · Jun 3, 2008

JonMiller said:
I hold with a monist position that we don't exist without our bodies. I don't see stong scriptural support for any other position either. There definitely isn't an scientific support for any other position.

JM
(Just to be clear, I am not monist, just mostly monist, as I believe that there something else (a Soul) and that Soul is God. There isn't any scientific evidence for this though.)

scriptural support is the litmus test?

.chrys. · Jun 3, 2008

Sort of on topic, but sort of off...where was Jesus then, when He died? Was He "asleep" that whole Sabbath, or what??

JonMiller · Jun 3, 2008

StormyOne said:
scriptural support is the litmus test?

I Also pointed out the lack of scientific evidence.

JM

StormyOne · Jun 3, 2008

JonMiller said:
I Also pointed out the lack of scientific evidence.

JM

which may or may not be significant. It could be that science has not yet developed a way to capture, record, document what happens to a person after they die... or that science may have an inkling but cannot definitively predict or replicate the phenomena observed.... example, science has enabled humans to track weather but predicting weather remains problematic....

JonMiller · Jun 3, 2008

Predicting weather patterns is an issue of mathematics, not detection. So there are really two sets of issues (maybe 3).

What we can model (mathematics).
What we can detect (technology).
What is out there (the unverise). (the third issue)

Now it is true, we could be able to detect so little that we can't detect what happens to a person after they die. But for now, our detection mechanisms yield nothing (and there have been attempts). Because of not seeing anything, means that something happening to a person after he dies is either do to not having good enough detectors or such not existing in the universe.

Now, unlike with the existence of God question, science has made some advances in the field of 'who we are'. These suggest that our physical brain is a fundamental part of the person. However, some people accuse scientists of bias (and they are probably right, most scientists are monists and reductionists) and there are a few scientists who think that current evidence fits better within a view consistent with a soul/etc.

JM

StormyOne · Jun 3, 2008

JonMiller said:
Predicting weather patterns is an issue of mathematics, not detection. So there are really two sets of issues (maybe 3).

What we can model (mathematics).
What we can detect (technology).
What is out there (the unverise). (the third issue)

Now it is true, we could be able to detect so little that we can't detect what happens to a person after they die. But for now, our detection mechanisms yield nothing (and there have been attempts). Because of not seeing anything, means that something happening to a person after he dies is either do to not having good enough detectors or such not existing in the universe.

Now, unlike with the existence of God question, science has made some advances in the field of 'who we are'. These suggest that our physical brain is a fundamental part of the person. However, some people accuse scientists of bias (and they are probably right, most scientists are monists and reductionists) and there are a few scientists who think that current evidence fits better within a view consistent with a soul/etc.

JM

I understand what you are saying however I am suggesting that maybe whatever it is cannot be detected by what is currently available.... a crude example is the situation where people were using human growth hormones to enhance performance and there were no tests able to detect HGH...

So if (and I know it is a big if) something occurs when a person dies i.e. transition to another dimension, at present there may not be an instrument that can detect inter-dimensional transitions....

Moriah_Conquering_Wind · Jun 3, 2008

JonMiller said:
I hold with a monist position that we don't exist without our bodies. I don't see stong scriptural support for any other position either.

Obviously you have never gone out of yours ... consciously ...

Moriah_Conquering_Wind · Jun 3, 2008

ConstantWitness said:
Sort of on topic, but sort of off...where was Jesus then, when He died? Was He "asleep" that whole Sabbath, or what??

Some think He went into the netherworlds and proclaimed liberty to the captives there. .....

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
1 Peter 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

But it bes a pretty shaky interp on this verse.

JonMiller · Jun 3, 2008

StormyOne said:
I understand what you are saying however I am suggesting that maybe whatever it is cannot be detected by what is currently available.... a crude example is the situation where people were using human growth hormones to enhance performance and there were no tests able to detect HGH...

So if (and I know it is a big if) something occurs when a person dies i.e. transition to another dimension, at present there may not be an instrument that can detect inter-dimensional transitions....

Well, biology is complicated stuff. Physics a lot better, and we can understand some sorts of dimensions (even predict them) in physics. For those sorts of dimensions, we can make detectors for. These detectors say that the dimensions are very very minor... or non-existant.

Physicists do tend towards beleiving that they exist though, as they fit the math better.

JM

JonMiller · Jun 3, 2008

BTW, thuogh, on the dimension question physics is pretty open (or even freindly towards) the idea.

It is neuroscience that is currently claiming (or close to claiming) that the biological/physical brain is the source and seat of consciousness/personhood. While I have a couple of neuroscience books and have read a bit, I am definitely not very konwledgeable on a very complicated subject.

I can just repeat what the majority claim, and note that there is a minority that disagrees with them.

JM

SoldierOfTheKing · Jun 3, 2008

ConstantWitness said:
Sort of on topic, but sort of off...where was Jesus then, when He died? Was He "asleep" that whole Sabbath, or what??

Dead, awaiting His resurrection.

For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Matthew 12:40

StormyOne · Jun 3, 2008

SoldierOfTheKing said:
Dead, awaiting His resurrection.

Matthew 12:40

Jesus as God cannot be killed, cannot die... so there is a conundrum....

.chrys. · Jun 3, 2008

SoldierOfTheKing said:
Originally Posted by ConstantWitness

Sort of on topic, but sort of off...where was Jesus then, when He died? Was He "asleep" that whole Sabbath, or what??

Dead, awaiting His resurrection.

For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Matthew 12:40

SOTK, would you also say that Jonah died whilst spending time in the belly of the whale; and that he was resurrected on the third day?

Moriah_Conquering_Wind · Jun 3, 2008

Making literal Jesus' association with the sign of Jonah could court missing the point.

The entire book of Jonah exists as a vital teaching concerning the Reconciliation Awareness, as it lays the foundation that even apocalyptic prophecy, while not stated in such vernacular, bes inherently conditional.

He whats got an ear to hear, etc....

Mankin · Jun 3, 2008

Jesus was also a human. He allowed the sin of the world to flow over his perfect spirtual being. With sin upon him, God had to seperate Himself from Jesus. Thus Jesus' human nature could die and Jesus gave up his spirit thus causing death.

State of the Dead Thread

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