State and church

Doubting thomas69 · May 3, 2018

Hi guys a question if a person worked for a church and had lots if time off in a short period due to surgery's and a death , is it ethical that they should give a verbal warning considering they knew the circumstance behind the absences considering the person is church family. Can you operate as a church and a business under the same umbrella as its a question I have been asked to deal with this for someone

seeking.IAM · May 3, 2018

Doubting thomas69 said:
Hi guys a question if a person worked for a church and had lots if time off in a short period due to surgery's and a death , is it ethical that they should give a verbal warning considering they knew the circumstance behind the absences considering the person is church family. Can you operate as a church and a business under the same umbrella as its a question I have been asked to deal with this for someone

I think it is always tricky to employ a parishioner in a church role. The risk is that employee matters or discipline might cause the member/employee to leave along with their pledge, to say nothing of the reaction to others in the parish who are aligned with the employee-parishioner. Still, church leadership has a responsibility to ensure that tasks are completed and there is good stewardship oversight of monies expended for services. I think the church should function as any other workplace, but wisdom would suggest that all these things should be discussed with the parishioner before a hire is made -- that they will be dealt with as an employee as they would in any other kind of business.

Doubting thomas69 · May 4, 2018

seeking.IAM said:
I think it is always tricky to employ a parishioner in a church role. The risk is that employee matters or discipline might cause the member/employee to leave along with their pledge, to say nothing of the reaction to others in the parish who are aligned with the employee-parishioner. Still, church leadership has a responsibility to ensure that tasks are completed and there is good stewardship oversight of monies expended for services. I think the church should function as any other workplace, but wisdom would suggest that all these things should be discussed with the parishioner before a hire is made -- that they will be dealt with as an employee as they would in any other kind of business.

How ever their seemed to be a dismissal of the facts to why the employee was off sick, also evidence was given to support the claim of illness and yet it was still over looked and went straight to disciplinary action

seeking.IAM · May 4, 2018

In my organization, employees get one point for each random sick occurrence (not including FMLA). I can't remember what the point level is when a Verbal Warning is given, but at 8 points the employee is fired for poor attendance. Why they were sick doesn't matter.

Paidiske · May 4, 2018

I'd say it depends entirely on the conditions agreed to when the person was employed. What does the employment contract state about sick leave entitlements?

Doubting thomas69 · May 4, 2018

Its states in the contract that Fair notice and evidence be given which has been adhered to

Paidiske · May 4, 2018

Then I'd probably take it higher (if there's anywhere higher to go, often churches lack a decent HR function or the like). If the employee has met the requirements of the contract and is being disciplined, that's not right at all.

Norbert L · May 4, 2018

Doubting thomas69 said:
Hi guys a question if a person worked for a church and had lots if time off in a short period due to surgery's and a death , is it ethical that they should give a verbal warning considering they knew the circumstance behind the absences considering the person is church family. Can you operate as a church and a business under the same umbrella as its a question I have been asked to deal with this for someone

I think on the practical side, if time off becomes a pattern of behavior then they'll be no shortages of opportunities to give verbal warnings.

When it comes to networking your business, in my view it would be worth the money to seek out a Christian lawyer who specializes in employment law and pay for some advice. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

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