Stand in the Holy Place

InSpiritInTruth · Nov 21, 2011

In Matthew 24:15 Jesus said;"When you therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken by Daniel the prophet, stand in the Holy Place,(whoso readeth, let him understand)"

So what is the Holy Place the Lord is refering to?

I don't believe it to be a literal place on the map, but rather a spiritual place in the heart and mind of the believer.

Moses and Joshua were told to remove their shoes(man made covering for the feet) when in the presence of the Lord. For the place by the Lord, where they stood was Holy ground.

And in Exodus 33:21 when Moses desired to see the glory of God, he was shown this Holy Place.

Exodus 33:21;"And the Lord said, Behold there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a Rock."

And Jesus(the very Word of God) is that Rock we must stand on, and abide in.

It is by faith in the very Word of God that we must stand firm in, and turn not to the left, or to the right from. He, Jesus is (the Rock) that sure foundation we must build our houses upon, so that when the storm comes, we may be able to stand, and able to abide.

Psalm 18:2
The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower.

Psalm 18:31
For who is God save the LORD? or who is a rock save our God?

Psalm 18:46
The LORD liveth; and blessed be my rock; and let the God of my salvation be exalted.

Psalm 28:1
Unto thee will I cry, O LORD my rock; be not silent to me: lest, if thou be silent to me, I become like them that go down into the pit.
Psalm 92:15
To shew that the LORD is upright: he is my rock, and there is no unrighteousness in him.
Psalm 94:22
But the LORD is my defence; and my God is the rock of my refuge.
Psalm 95:1
O come, let us sing unto the LORD: let us make a joyful noise to the rock of our salvation.

In Psalm 24:3 we are told;"Who shall ascend into the hill of the Lord? or who shall stand in his Holy Place?"

Compare to Romans 10:6-8;"But the righteousness which is of faith speaks on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven?(that is, to bring Christ down from above)"

7."Or, Who shall descend into the deep?(that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)"

8."But what saith it? The Word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the Word of faith, which we preach."

Children, abide in the Rock, and stand in that Most Holy Place in your hearts and minds, Amen.

dana b · Nov 22, 2011

The "Holy Place" means working in the garden. It is where God put Mankind to begin with. And it is where we as human beings seem to try every excuse to get out of.

Oh I know there are many things that we can say that it is. But they are all a cope out. Adam and Eve coped out when they left. Jesus encouraged us to come back by making most of his parables about "sowing seeds, working in vinyards and pruning plants."(even though some say he was a carpenter's son)

Mankind is the only being on this earth who has the ability and cognizance to plant, water, care for harvest and preserve food. All of the other plants and animals are entirely unaware of this and can only scamper about retrieveing, stealing at night and storing food. Is it any wonder that the Bible says that God make Adam because "there was not a man to till the ground?" Gen.2;5 And the first thing he did is "plant a garden" and "put them into it to dress it and to keep it?"

No, it's a total mistake how modern human beings now live in cities and mostly do every other type of job but planting seeds, weeding and caring for their food. So in Rev.22 it again says there will be 12 types of trees each producing fruit in their season. But of course most people(city slickers) will instead debate some other superfluous mystical explanations for where God want us to "stand." Anyway, myself, I've always been an agricultural labourer out of shere convictions that the "Holy Place," is in the vegatable garden.

C R F · Nov 22, 2011

InSpiritInTruth said:
In Matthew 24:15 Jesus said;"When you therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken by Daniel the prophet, stand in the Holy Place,(whoso readeth, let him understand)"

So what is the Holy Place the Lord is refering to?

I don't believe it to be a literal place on the map, but rather a spiritual place in the heart and mind of the believer.

Moses and Joshua were told to remove their shoes(man made covering for the feet) when in the presence of the Lord. For the place by the Lord, where they stood was Holy ground.

And in Exodus 33:21 when Moses desired to see the glory of God, he was shown this Holy Place.

Exodus 33:21;"And the Lord said, Behold there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a Rock."

And Jesus(the very Word of God) is that Rock we must stand on, and abide in.

It is by faith in the very Word of God that we must stand firm in, and turn not to the left, or to the right from. He, Jesus is (the Rock) that sure foundation we must build our houses upon, so that when the storm comes, we may be able to stand, and able to abide.

Psalm 18:2
The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower.

Psalm 18:31
For who is God save the LORD? or who is a rock save our God?

Psalm 18:46
The LORD liveth; and blessed be my rock; and let the God of my salvation be exalted.

Psalm 28:1
Unto thee will I cry, O LORD my rock; be not silent to me: lest, if thou be silent to me, I become like them that go down into the pit.
Psalm 92:15
To shew that the LORD is upright: he is my rock, and there is no unrighteousness in him.
Psalm 94:22
But the LORD is my defence; and my God is the rock of my refuge.
Psalm 95:1
O come, let us sing unto the LORD: let us make a joyful noise to the rock of our salvation.

In Psalm 24:3 we are told;"Who shall ascend into the hill of the Lord? or who shall stand in his Holy Place?"

Compare to Romans 10:6-8;"But the righteousness which is of faith speaks on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven?(that is, to bring Christ down from above)"

7."Or, Who shall descend into the deep?(that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)"

8."But what saith it? The Word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the Word of faith, which we preach."

Children, abide in the Rock, and stand in that Most Holy Place in your hearts and minds, Amen.

Spirit, any man that has ears to hear builds upon that rock. Remove your sandels because you are standing on Holy ground means you have the true understanding of the word, you have ears to hear and understand with your heart. If you don't you are standing on the earth that is cursed. You can have a heart full of lies and deceit or a heart full of truth , according to your understanding. People wear sandles to keep the filth of the earth of them.

John Stefanyszyn · Nov 23, 2011

Mr. InSpiritinTruth,

The words from God that you have written are true and ,yes, the One and Only Creator God, the One True Way of Life through Christ, is as David wrote..."The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower."
.....and my Holy Place.....the Glorious Holy Mountain (Kingdom)

I invite you to also refer to Daniel 11:45.
It summarizes what the final king of the north, the final beast and prophet, will accomplish before the return of Christ.....
....this ruler will plant (after clearing the earth of the Truth of God) the tents (the tabernacle) of his palace (his kingdom / his way of life/ his belief / his god of fortresses) between (as the central belief) the seas (mankind) and the Glorious Holy Mountain (The Holy Place...the Truth of the Only God, His Christ, and the One True Way of Life).
...he may even claim Jerusalem to be now the city of this "god of fortresses" and man's peace.

As it is written, the way and belief of this last "world" ruler will replace the first love, take the center postion, and become the preemeninent core belief of all mankind...and all cultures,religions, nations will bow down to this way of life because of their love for it.....even "Christians" will compromise and embrace this belief before and above Christ because of its "perceived" righteousness for freedom of rights and religion and man's peace.

St_Worm2 · Nov 23, 2011

InSpiritInTruth said:
In Matthew 24:15 Jesus said;"When you therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken by Daniel the prophet, stand in the Holy Place,(whoso readeth, let him understand)"

So what is the Holy Place the Lord is refering to?

I don't believe it to be a literal place on the map, but rather a spiritual place in the heart and mind of the believer.

The, "Holy Place", in this case, is referring to the Temple in Jerusalem during the Tribulation period. It is there, about 3.5 years into the Tribulation, that the Antichrist will establish himself as world dictator, bring an end to the regular temple sacrifices/services (which had been reinstituted at the beginning of the Tribulation), and set up an image of himself in the Temple to be worshiped as God (see 2 Thess 2:2-4 & Rev 13:14-15).

The "abomination that causes desolation" was spoken of first in the Book of Daniel (see Dan 9:27 & 12:11).

--David

earagun · Nov 23, 2011

DaLeKo said:
The, "Holy Place", in this case, is referring to the Temple in Jerusalem during the Tribulation period. It is there, about 3.5 years into the Tribulation, that the Antichrist will establish himself as world dictator, bring an end to the regular temple sacrifices/services (which had been reinstituted at the beginning of the Tribulation), and set up an image of himself in the Temple to be worshiped as God (see 2 Thess 2:2-4 & Rev 13:14-15).

The "abomination that causes desolation" was spoken of first in the Book of Daniel (see Dan 9:27 & 12:11).

--David

WOW! AN ACTUAL BIBLICAL INTERPRETATION WHAT A NOVEL IDEA! I was beside myself wondering where these folks come up with these answers, almost as if I picture them shaking one of those crazy 8 balls and getting their answer. nobody seems to understand hermeneutics these days, let the bible interpret itself, otherwise everyone will come up with answers completely out of left field

St_Worm2 · Nov 23, 2011

John Stefanyszyn said:
As it is written, the way and belief of this last "world" ruler will replace the first love, take the center postion, and become the preemeninent core belief of all mankind...and all cultures,religions, nations will bow down to this way of life because of their love for it.....even "Christians" will compromise and embrace this belief before and above Christ because of its "perceived" righteousness for freedom of rights and religion and man's peace.

Hi John, where does the Bible teach that true Christians will embrace the Antichrist or worship the image of the Beast?

Thanks!

--David

pdehart · Nov 23, 2011

When the Old Testiment speaks of the Holy Place, EVERY jew knew what that ment. The Holy place within the temple or tabernacle. We forget sometimes that the Bible was written by Jews for Jews. It was not written for theologans to interpert it. We should take it for what it says.

Rose_bud · Nov 23, 2011

pdehart said:
When the Old Testiment speaks of the Holy Place, EVERY jew knew what that ment. The Holy place within the temple or tabernacle. We forget sometimes that the Bible was written by Jews for Jews. It was not written for theologans to interpert it. We should take it for what it says.

St_Worm2 · Nov 23, 2011

pdehart said:
When the Old Testiment speaks of the Holy Place, EVERY jew knew what that ment. The Holy place within the temple or tabernacle. We forget sometimes that the Bible was written by Jews for Jews. It was not written for theologans to interpert it. We should take it for what it says.

Hi pdehart, which 'theologians' are you talking about? Everyone of them I have read interprets, "The Holy Place", in Matt 24, as being the Temple in Jerusalem. Also, don't forget that the "Jews" knew the Bible because it was read to them and interpreted for them by their own "theologians".

I'm not directing this comment at you personally, but I am continually amazed at the demonizing of those who make it their life's work to study and help others know and understand God's Word more accurately here at CF. Should something be considered wrong simply because St. Augustine said it? Should it not be instead that we take the interpretation of the Scriptures made by our orthodox theologians and church doctors as the truth unless we can otherwise prove them wrong?

Sorry! I know my comments are off topic, but I've felt for some time that this was a subject that needed to be addressed.

Yours and His,
David

earagun · Nov 23, 2011

DaLeKo said:
Hi John, where does the Bible teach that true Christians will embrace the Antichrist or worship the image of the Beast?

Thanks!

--David

If it weren't possible, then why would there be any reason to warn believers, why does Paul warn, why does Jesus warn but if you want a scripture Mathew 24:24 "For false christ and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, IF POSSIBLE, EVEN THE ELECT.

earagun · Nov 23, 2011

DaLeKo said:
Hi pdehart, which 'theologians' are you talking about? Everyone of them I have read interprets, "The Holy Place", in Matt 24, as being the Temple in Jerusalem. Also, don't forget that the "Jews" knew the Bible because it was read to them and interpreted for them by their own "theologians".

I'm not directing this comment at you personally, but I am continually amazed at the demonizing of those who make it their life's work to study and help others know and understand God's Word more accurately here at CF. Should something be considered wrong simply because St. Augustine said it? Should it not be instead that we take the interpretation of the Scriptures made by our orthodox theologians and church doctors as the truth unless we can otherwise prove them wrong?

Sorry! I know my comments are off topic, but I've felt for some time that this was a subject that needed to be addressed.

Yours and His,
David

Sir considering what we have written in the bible we see from the earliest beginnings of the church that error was at the door, even the apostle Peter if not stopped could of led the whole church to follow the circumcision group if not abruptly stopped by the apostle Paul, just figuring early church figures must be correct without lining it up against what we have written in the bible is not a very good idea. Its very likely that error has crept in, we are even warned that it would!, now when we see some of the error, as did Luther it must be exposed and the truth of God's word will put a light on it........needless to say Luther had further to go, and more to expose

InSpiritInTruth · Nov 23, 2011

DaLeKo said:
The, "Holy Place", in this case, is referring to the Temple in Jerusalem during the Tribulation period. It is there, about 3.5 years into the Tribulation, that the Antichrist will establish himself as world dictator, bring an end to the regular temple sacrifices/services (which had been reinstituted at the beginning of the Tribulation), and set up an image of himself in the Temple to be worshiped as God (see 2 Thess 2:2-4 & Rev 13:14-15).

The "abomination that causes desolation" was spoken of first in the Book of Daniel (see Dan 9:27 & 12:11).

--David

In John 2:19 Jesus said;"Destroy this Temple, and in three days I will raise it up."

Was Jesus refering to the literal temple at Jerusalem, or the Temple of His Body?

Also was Jesus telling the people to stay at Jerusalem, or flee?

Matthew 24:16
Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Mark 13:14
But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

Luke 21:21
Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

And if Jerusalem was to be made a desolation, why would the Lord want his people to stay in it?

Come out of her my people, and be not a partaker of her sins!

St_Worm2 · Nov 23, 2011

earagun said:
If it weren't possible, then why would there be any reason to warn believers, why does Paul warn, why does Jesus warn but if you want a scripture Mathew 24:24 "For false christ and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, IF POSSIBLE, EVEN THE ELECT.

Believers, those who have the mind of Christ (1 Cor 2:16), are warned for that very reason, so we will not be deceived.

The insinuation of Matthew 24:24, in accord with both Chpt 24 and with what the rest of the Bible has to say about God's elect, is most clearly represented by the words of the NIV in this case which reads,

For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the electif that were possible. Matt 24:24

Sieben · Nov 23, 2011

earagun said:
WOW! AN ACTUAL BIBLICAL INTERPRETATION WHAT A NOVEL IDEA! I was beside myself wondering where these folks come up with these answers, almost as if I picture them shaking one of those crazy 8 balls and getting their answer. nobody seems to understand hermeneutics these days, let the bible interpret itself, otherwise everyone will come up with answers completely out of left field

I... was confused where people were getting their answers too

St_Worm2 · Nov 23, 2011

InSpiritInTruth said:
In John 2:19 Jesus said;"Destroy this Temple, and in three days I will raise it up."

Was Jesus refering to the literal temple at Jerusalem, or the Temple of His Body?

In John 2:19, Jesus was referring to His own body. That is not the case in Matthew 24.

InSpiritInTruth said:
Also was Jesus telling the people to stay at Jerusalem, or flee?

Matthew 24:16
Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Mark 13:14
But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

Luke 21:21
Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

And if Jerusalem was to be made a desolation, why would the Lord want his people to stay in it?

Come out of her my people, and be not a partaker of her sins!

It is the Temple in Jerusalem, not Jerusalem itself, that will be made desolate during the 2nd half of the Tribulation period.

--David

St_Worm2 · Nov 23, 2011

earagun said:
Sir considering what we have written in the bible we see from the earliest beginnings of the church that error was at the door, even the apostle Peter if not stopped could of led the whole church to follow the circumcision group if not abruptly stopped by the apostle Paul, just figuring early church figures must be correct without lining it up against what we have written in the bible is not a very good idea. Its very likely that error has crept in, we are even warned that it would!, now when we see some of the error, as did Luther it must be exposed and the truth of God's word will put a light on it........needless to say Luther had further to go, and more to expose

Where did I say that we are not to check what various theologians have said about the Word of God? My point was not that we are to blindly accept the commentary of orthodox theologians as truth, but simply that their comments, especially those that line up with what the church has said is true, should be considered as such until we can prove otherwise. If you believe theologians are to always be considered wrong in everything they say, why are you defending Luther?

InSpiritInTruth · Nov 23, 2011

DaLeKo said:
In John 2:19, Jesus was referring to His own body. That is not the case in Matthew 24.

It is the Temple in Jerusalem, not Jerusalem itself, that will be made desolate during the 2nd half of the Tribulation period.

--David

What temple might that be? The one where the dome of the rock now sits?

Is that the Holy Place you are talking about? Where Gods people are to stand? Please, think about what you are saying.

Luke 8:18
Take heed therefore how ye hear: for whosoever hath, to him shall be given; and whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he seemeth to have.

Hebrews 13:14;"For here we have no continuing city, but seek one to come."

http://www.christianforums.com/passage/?search=Luke+8:17-19&version=KJV

DamianWarS · Nov 23, 2011

if the term the "holy place" is to be take metaphorically then we first need to establish the concrete aspect of its use before we jump into the symbolic otherwise we can quickly start focusing on the wrong aspects. I would suggest with the corresponding passages in Daniel and the tradition of the Jews that the "holy place" is not a general term as in Israel or Jerusalem but more specifically the temple and even more specifically the inner chambers of the temple refereed to as the "holy of holies". This "inner chamber" was geographically pretty specific and even today Jews are not allow to walk on the temple mount in case they accidentally walking into "holy of holies".

This isn't the only place where this phrase is used and you can see it when Stephen is falsely accused of blasphemy in Acts 6:13-14 saying "This man incessantly speaks against this holy place and the Law; for we have heard him say that this Nazarene, Jesus, will destroy this place and alter the customs which Moses handed down to us." This parallels with what Jesus said when he refereed he said he would "destroy the temple of God and to rebuild it in three days." (Matthew 26:61) and in this case the "holy place" would then seem to suggest the temple.

Other passages also suggest the temple in Acts 21:28 where Jews accused Paul saying "This is the man who preaches to all men everywhere against our people and the Law and this place; and besides he has even brought Greeks into the temple and has defiled this holy place." Although there accusation was wrong this is again talking about the temple.

this does confirm that culturally the Jew thought of the phrase "the holy place" as the temple.

InSpiritInTruth · Nov 23, 2011

King James Version (KJV)

Hebrews 9

1Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. (Holy Place)
2For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.
3And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;
4Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;
5And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercyseat; of which we cannot now speak particularly.
6Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God.
7But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:
8The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:
9Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
10Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation. 11But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building.

The Lord first shows in the natural design, a much greater spiritual design to come in Christ.

Those who abide in the Truth, which is in Christ, are standing in this Holy Place.

It is written, to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

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