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Reformationist

Non nobis domine sed tuo nomine da gloriam
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That we are saved by faith alone is the same lie as Lucifer told Mohamed.

Please share with us the vast amounts of knowledge you have accumulated in your impressive 15 years of life regarding the truth. And for the benefit of all, don't post any verses about despising your youth.

Same thing with Jean Calvin's false doctrine that God chose a few to go to heaven.

Please share with us all the teachings of Calvin that limited the number of people chosen to go to Heaven as "a few." Also, you might want to check out Matthew 22:14.
 
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Reformationist

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We are saved by Faith AND Works.

Clearly you do not know anything about that against which you rail. Our faith is the instrumental cause of our justification but it not the grounds for it. It is the vehicle by which God delivers unto His elect the merit for Christ's vicarious atonement. A faith that does not produce works is a dead faith but that is not the faith of which sola Fide advocates speak. We are saved by faith alone, but never a faith that is alone.

We need confession to be forgiven for our sins.

Are you sure you're not Jewish?


Ahh...the wisdom of youth....you make it too easy for us. Your immature comparisons of the doctrines of grace to the vile, contemptuous views of those hate-mongers serves as more of an indictment against you than anything we could say.

Think of it, someone who creates living things just for sending them to eternal torture. Is this our forgiving and merciful God who loves everyone, or is this Allah the deciever?

Pray tell, did God not know who would reject Him and merit condemnation?
 
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Reformationist

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The services have many quotes from the Bible in it.

The Mormons quote from the Bible as well. By that standard, they must be right as well. What your denomination does is pervert the Truth of Scripture.
 
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Reformationist

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I'll go with Scripture on this one

Wow. For all of your claims of scholarship and being the "true Church," you guys sure miss the boat on that one. What you "go with" is your denominations inaccurate understanding of that passage. James spoke of justification before man, Paul spoke of justification before God:

Romans 3:28
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.

James 2:17,18
Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.

Was James talking to God? Clearly not.
 
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Reformationist

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We should be humble enough to seek out the true Church Church and follow her no matter if it's not what we have personally concluded is true. We err, Christ Church can not.

Problem with this theory is that you already think your denomination is "the Church" so when you "seek," you presume that any disagreement you have with the doctrines of your denomination are the product of your own fallibility. Kinda defeats the purpose of making the claim of being open to go wherever the Truth leads you.
 
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Reformationist

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The fact that the Catholic Church is always under attack and the sins of the men are always brought to light tells me that this IS the true Church for the simple fact, if the enemy can bring her down, the rest will fall like domino's.

They're under attack because the Truth of the Bible reveals the sham that your denomination preaches is the truth. As for falling, well, it is nothing but arrogance to presume that if your denomination falls that will be the end of it for the rest of us. "The Church" will survive because God always leaves a remnant. Even your denomination's widespread acceptance won't prevent the Truth of God's Word from prevailing.
 
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IamAdopted

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We don't need to seek out a true church.. We need to seek out Christ. For all of those called of His name are the true church.. The body the bride.
 
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Reformationist

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A) the pope does not set himself up as the authority of the world, that is blatantly a false premise and B) Christ set him up as the guardian of our faith... this we know as per Matt 16.

Well, forgive me but I'm gonna need a bit more to go on than simply your inaccurate understanding of Scripture and your public professions of transfer of authority. The fact that your denomination preaches error is proof for any who are interested that your Pope isn't the bearer of any measure of truth, much less "the guardian of faith."

That is what the point is.. on who's authority did Calvin or any other "reformer" speak?

Binding the conscience of believers is your bag, not ours. Calvin professed what he, and many others believe to be the truth. He wasn't infallible at any time, nor did he claim to be.


That isn't what makes them true, though I will submit that the authority of the leaders of your denomination is on no more stable ground.
 
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Reformationist

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We don't need to seek out a true church.. We need to seek out Christ. For all of those called of His name are the true church.. The body the bride.

And the people said:

 
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sunlover1

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Check out Calvinism, those heretics believe that everything is directly controlled by God,
It isnt?

We aren't like the Protestants churches who will advertise and offer Krispy Kremes and Starbucks to get em in the door.

What competition?

Sad thread guys.


18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. 19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent. 20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. 21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. 22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
 
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Imperiuz

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Please share with us the vast amounts of knowledge you have accumulated in your impressive 15 years of life regarding the truth. And for the benefit of all, don't post any verses about despising your youth.
Sure I'll do. I have studied history since I was seven years old.

14 “For many are called, but few are chosen.” (NKJV) YES, many are called to Christ, but only some will neter heaven, because we are saved by our faith and our works.

While I agree that Faith is most important, Paul said (no I need a verse to prove that?) that Faith without works is Dead faith, just like you said. And according to Mark 16:16: "He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned." This shows us that we have also need to be baptized to enter heaven.

Are you sure you're not Jewish?
Both Catholic and Orthodox Christians confess their sins to a priest.

I won't go into the rest of your post as the last part is a flame.

God allows us to not convert to the True faith, he does not order some people top become infidels.

Why use KJV? But I can give you a reason to not, as Benedicta00 put it "advertise and offer Krispy Kremes and Starbucks to get em in the door." Here:

Matthew 6:24

24"No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money.
 
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Reformationist

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Sure I'll do. I have studied history since I was seven years old.

Great. 8 years, and that 8 years as a child. I can only imagine the wisdom you've gained. I've got three kids and while I may be a bit partial, I am fairly certain they are intelligent kids, but kids nonetheless. What they would grasp of history and Scripture is certain to be formed based on the things to which they are exposed.

14 “For many are called, but few are chosen.” (NKJV) YES, many are called to Christ, but only some will neter heaven, because we are saved by our faith and our works.

As the portion of this response following the NKJV is nothing more than a regurgitation of what your church tells you which, itself, is nothing more than their erroneous understanding of the Bible, I fail to see how this helps to bring us to your conclusions.

While I agree that Faith is most important, Paul said (no I need a verse to prove that?) that Faith without works is Dead faith, just like you said.

He did? Are you sure you don't mean James?

And according to Mark 16:16: "He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned." This shows us that we have also need to be baptized to enter heaven.

Baptism, if you refer to water baptism, is a public profession of alliance to God. It is not, however, the grounds for our justification. Again, you cite nothing from Scripture, other than your denomination's inaccurate understanding of works of obedience, to lead us to where you attempt to take us.

Both Catholic and Orthodox Christians confess their sins to a priest.

LOL! That just shows unity in error, nothing more.

I won't go into the rest of your post as the last part is a flame.

LOL! You call Calvinists heretics for believing that God is sovereign and then contend that I've flamed you. As I said, such is the wisdom of youth...

God allows us to not convert to the True faith, he does not order some people top become infidels.

You, like all people, are born infidels. If you think the imputation of a sinful nature was not by the decree of God then you know nothing and the theological position you find yourself in now is nothing more than starting off with an erroneous understanding of the Fall.

Back to the ol' drawing board there SC. Hey, here's an idea, trying reading and studying the Bible instead of simply accepting as infallible the nonsense that your denominational leaders presuppose and foist upon Scripture. They do nothing but revel in the creation and assume that they come off as pious simply because they acknowledge man's "need" of a Savior.
 
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Yeznik

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This inaccurate understanding and methodology , use state is only used in Protestantism.
 
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Reformationist

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This "inaccurate understanding" is only used in Protestantism.

So you believe James was speaking of justification before God? If so, what type of justification was Paul speaking of in Romans 3:28?

Not to mention the mule sized hole that's blasted into the works based theologies with Romans 3:20:

"Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin."

Oh, let me guess, the point of Romans 3:20 is to let us know that our justification is not just by works, right?
 
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SeraphimSarov

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LOL! What a bunch of nonsense. Luther and Calvin were right for rejecting the nonsense of the Roman faith but wrong for injecting their own brand of heresy? Right. Good one KB. Thankfully, you guys got it right, right?

Way to not make any discernable counterpoint...
 
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Yeznik

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No, I believe you are running the around the argument into a tangent to prove your point.
 
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Imperiuz

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This is not an argument. Show me how I was wrong here instead of telling me that the NKJV and that the Orthodox Church is wrong. The verse that you told me to read do nothing but confirm that my views about salvation is correct.

And what is so wrong with the NKJV? The KJV isn't "holy" in anyway, the Septuagint is.

He did? Are you sure you don't mean James?
Sorry, thank you for correcting me here.

So how do you intercept this verse, Mark 16:16?

LOL! That just shows unity in error, nothing more.

James 5:16 (NKJV)

"Confess
your trespasses to one another,and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much."

LOL! You call Calvinists heretics for believing that God is sovereign and then contend that I've flamed you. As I said, such is the wisdom of youth...
God is the almighty sovereign, No one would deny that.

Back to the ol' drawing board there SC. Hey, here's an idea, trying reading and studying the Bible instead of simply accepting as infallible the nonsense that your denominational leaders presuppose and foist upon Scripture.
I do read the bible, three-four times a week. The Anno 1917 version of the bible in Swedish. And I haven't found a single verse who go against the teachings of the Orthodox Church.
 
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SeraphimSarov

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One guess as to who you think the church is...

Come and see. One guess as to whether you've ever even seen what you're arguing with...

Then you should be applauding their efforts.

I applaud their rejection of indulgences, an outrageous abuse of authority backed by indefensible theology. Many of the fruits of their efforts, as well as some indefensible theology of their own, however, I cannot applaud.
 
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Imperiuz

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"Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin."
FLESH? We will not take our bodies with us to heaven, our souls will be there but not our flesh.

Also notice that what he relay tells us is that following the law is not the primary source of our salvation. Not that God will not judge us on our sins or that faith without works and baptism is enough for entering Heaven.
 
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