ST. John Calvin

Andrew21091 · Oct 16, 2007

IamAdopted said:
These men brought scripture and preached scripture. The only reason they were deemed heretics was because scripture does not line up with tradition.

Scripture is Tradition. Also, how does the Orthodox Church not teach or preach Scripture. Have you ever been to the Divine Liturgy or even read the text from that or many of the other services of the Orthodox Church? The services have many quotes from the Bible in it. Here is a text of the Liturgy with the Biblical references.

http://www.orthodoxcentral.com/articles/bibleinliturgy.htm

Also, if you look in many of the writing of Saints, they quote and preach the Scripture a lot.

SeraphimSarov · Oct 16, 2007

Ishida said:
That's funny. The TRUE church would've had reformers! This competition is funny yet sad.

Sad indeed. And hardly funny.

Apollo Celestio · Oct 16, 2007

I can't help but find it funny, this competition to be the one true church. :/

SeraphimSarov · Oct 17, 2007

Ishida said:
I can't help but find it funny, this competition to be the one true church. :/

There's no competition here.

IamAdopted · Oct 17, 2007

ScarletCrusader said:
We are saved by Faith AND Works. You are not saved by faith alone, that would be DEAD FAITH. We need confession to be forgiven for our sins. Also as we need both faith and works, we cannot be sure that those fallen to heresy are saved as they are preaching false.

Through I believe God is merciful, of course. Just beware of false and unbiblical teachings. Check out Calvinism, those heretics believe that everything is directly controlled by God, which means that he chooses some to burn forever. This of course means that God do not love everyone, so Calvinists are therefore the same as Westboro Baptist Church.

Think of it, someone who creates living things just for sending them to eternal torture. Is this our forgiving and merciful God who loves everyone, or is this Allah the deciever?

Sorry no amount of works will save one person.. For it is Faith in Christ alone that saves and the Holy Spirit that gives us the fruit of salvation. Faith is never dead when coupled with the Holy Spirit changing a life from the inward man to the outward man. Many men can do works but yet they do dead works because they don't have faith in the shed blood at calvary. They think they have to add to it by doing good works.. This is just not the gospel message..

Oblio · Oct 17, 2007

Faith is never dead ...

The Holy Apostle James said:
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
(Jam 2:26 KJVA)

I'll go with Scripture on this one

IamAdopted · Oct 17, 2007

Oblio said:
I'll go with Scripture on this one

You need to read the full of what I wrote.. Not just pick and choose what it is you want to bring out..

Benedicta00 · Oct 17, 2007

Ishida said:
That's funny. The TRUE church would've had reformers! This competition is funny yet sad.

What competition are you referring to? No one who is honest seeks a competition.

We should be humble enough to seek out the true Church Church and follow her no matter if it's not what we have personally concluded is true. We err, Christ Church can not.

Facts are the facts. There is only one Church that Jesus established. He did not established many churches, but ONE true Church and that one Church that he established will not have the gates of hades prevail against it. IOW Christ Church will be incapable of teaching us error.

It is our business to be on a quest to find the TRUE Church that Christ established. It has nothing to do with competitiveness. We aren't like the Protestants churches who will advertise and offer Krispy Kremes and Starbucks to get em in the door.

Benedicta00 · Oct 17, 2007

Ishida said:
I can't help but find it funny, this competition to be the one true church. :/

What competition?

Benedicta00 · Oct 17, 2007

ScarletCrusader said:
That we are saved by faith alone is the same lie as Lucifer told Mohamed. Same thing with Jean Calvin's false doctrine that God chose a few to go to heaven.

Why? Shouldn't it be the opposite, the Orthodox Church have never experienced the problems of the Roman-Catholic church, no election of false barbarian "emperor", no paedophile priests, no masochistic orders, no changes of Original Christianity at all. The Holy Spirit guides this Church.

Do you really want to stand by this post that the EO have never experienced scandal? I know for a fact they have their own bad boy bishops.

The fact that no one but the EO knows about Orthodoxy benefits them when it comes to their scandals... in the West we don't hear about the good they do, but we also don't hear about the bad... just like in the Protestant sects, we don't hear about it because it is not publicized the way the Catholic Church is.

Why would Christ Church go unheard of in certain parts of the world if it is the universal Church? EO is just that, eastern, it's not universal.

The fact that the Catholic Church is always under attack and the sins of the men are always brought to light tells me that this IS the true Church for the simple fact, if the enemy can bring her down, the rest will fall like domino's. Why publicly, universally attack the EO when they have no power to bring the Church down? When pretty much the Western world hasn't even heard of them?

Oblio · Oct 17, 2007

EO is just that, eastern, it's not universal.

Uh, Eastern refers to the Theology, not the Geography.

Oblio · Oct 17, 2007

I will agree WRT to scandals though. We have our share, to our shame, just as everyone else. This simply attests to the fact that the Church is both human and divine, she is composed of sinful humans that make up the human aspect.

Reformationist · Oct 17, 2007

lionroar0 said:
Calvin set himself up as the authority in Geneva.

Peace

As opposed to the Roman Pontiff, who sets himself up as the authority of the world...

Reformationist · Oct 17, 2007

KjellBjarne said:
So where were they all those years between Pentecost and the Reformation?

They were there. Just because they weren't the majority or widely written and distributed doesn't mean that the theology didn't exist. Most of what Calvin professed to be true was found in the writings of others, most notably Augustine. Good thing Joseph didn't abandon his faith simply because he was in the minority.

Reformationist · Oct 17, 2007

Benedicta00 said:
I never did understand non Catholic critics for having Saints, self declaring their own.

Do they realize that a person is a Saints based on their faith and not based on his works?

They are the ones who preach works have no effect on our soul but they turn around and want their heros to be called St. Who Ever... based on what they did, and not on based on their faith, hope and love. Hey guys, it's faith that saves, remember?

And then not to mention the whole issue of 'worshiping' the man.. ummm, I mean admiring and honoring him... it's just hypocritical and ironic.

What's ironic is that a Roman Catholic would seek to make the argument against works and rebuke someone for "worshipping" the man. That's ironic.

Aside from that, no credible theologian, Protestant or otherwise, contends that works have no effect on the soul. We simply acknowledge that from true faith stems obedient works and though these works evidence faith, they are neither the grounds for our justification, nor are they able to overcome the sanctifying work the Lord is doing in His children.

Benedicta00 · Oct 17, 2007

Reformationist said:
As opposed to the Roman Pontiff, who sets himself up as the authority of the world...

A) the pope does not set himself up as the authority of the world, that is blatantly a false premise and B) Christ set him up as the guardian of our faith... this we know as per Matt 16.

That is what the point is.. on who's authority did Calvin or any other "reformer" speak?

Answer: Their own and it would behoove anyone to try to claim God gave them the authority to interpret scripture 1530 years after the fact... how are you going to prove something like that?

Because you agree with their thoughts and impressions? That is what makes them true? You agreeing with them?

Reformationist · Oct 17, 2007

Benedicta00 said:
I'm saying that I personally find it ironic and a bit hypocrtical. Only God alone should be respected and put on a pedestal. No man should get any credit for anything they do.

Well then, we look forward to your public denunciation of the Roman Catholic practice of placing so many people on pedestals, both literally and figuratively.

Reformationist · Oct 17, 2007

KjellBjarne said:
Nah, it mostly had to do with the fact that they were creating a schism in the Roman church... given, the Roman church was in schism with the Church to begin with, so there was plenty to complain about, but Luther and Calvin didn't have it right, either. The fact that they created another schism was bound to happen.

LOL! What a bunch of nonsense. Luther and Calvin were right for rejecting the nonsense of the Roman faith but wrong for injecting their own brand of heresy? Right. Good one KB. Thankfully, you guys got it right, right?

Reformationist · Oct 17, 2007

KjellBjarne said:
I'm not saying Roman Catholicism is the Church. I'm saying it's not.

One guess as to who you think the church is...

The Reformation was inevitable because of this.

Then you should be applauding their efforts.

Reformationist · Oct 17, 2007

Benedicta00 said:
But then again, if Orthodoxy was the true church then we would have seen the protesters rise against it.

What a ridiculously unbelievable rationale. You presume that Luther's, and other reformers', rejection of the nonsense your denomination preaches is evidence of the Truth. The reformers also rejected the teachings of the Orthodox faith, and any other who, like your own, presume that the glory of man is central to the Gospel. Does that make their views right as well?

ST. John Calvin

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Пресвятая Богородица, спаси нас...

Deal with it.

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