Spouse Abuse in Islam

[Jack Russell]

What's up, guys.

I'm a former muslim, saved by the grace of Jesus Christ, and I'm concerned about what's been happening lately in the Islamic world and our President's pathetic response, or lack thereof.

We need to understand what Islam is. We are hearing about the reality of jihad in the Quran, but there is more evil in the Quran as well. Here is what should be the infamous verse in the Quran which commands husbands to beat and isolate their wives:

Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great. [Quran 4:34]

Compare this to how the Bible says husbands should treat their wives:

"Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church— for we are members of his body. “For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.” This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband."

-Ephesians 5:25-33

In the debate on Islam, and the Christian defense of the faith, it is important to understand these facts about Islam, because muslim men and women live under an oppressive and even psychopathic ideology. Spouse abuse happens all over the Islamic world in ways the Christian world would never even imagine (despite what some liberals might say) and there are actual verses in the Quran and Hadith that muslims use to justify this, whereas the Bible commands no spouse abuse whatsoever.

 

[CGL1023]

What's up, guys.

I'm a former muslim, saved by the grace of Jesus Christ, and I'm concerned about what's been happening lately in the Islamic world and our President's pathetic response, or lack thereof.

We need to understand what Islam is. We are hearing about the reality of jihad in the Quran, but there is more evil in the Quran as well. Here is what should be the infamous verse in the Quran which commands husbands to beat and isolate their wives:

Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great. [Quran 4:34]

Compare this to how the Bible says husbands should treat their wives:

"Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church— for we are members of his body. “For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.” This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband."

-Ephesians 5:25-33

In the debate on Islam, and the Christian defense of the faith, it is important to understand these facts about Islam, because muslim men and women live under an oppressive and even psychopathic ideology. Spouse abuse happens all over the Islamic world in ways the Christian world would never even imagine (despite what some liberals might say) and there are actual verses in the Quran and Hadith that muslims use to justify this, whereas the Bible commands no spouse abuse whatsoever.

Does any one know how to deal with Islam? What about FGM and so-called "honor killings"? I have read of the latter but not the former occurring in the US. The UK is dealing with FGM on a widespread basis where recently it had been a non-issue.

I have gone from renouncing Obama's executuve amnesty to agreeing with it. The US birth rate, along with all first world countries, is declining and we see from the problems in European countries that the the native Europeans are being displaced by the Muslims, with their higher birthrate. I have concluded that the people from Mexico, Central and South America are to be preferred as US immigrants because their religious heritage is Christian.

To punctuate the point, I saw a news article about a street preacher violating and being arrested under Sharia law. The place was either Flint or Dearborn Michigan with huge Muslim populations.

 

[Sketcher]

Dearborn does have the largest percentage of Middle Eastern immigrants in the country, but to my knowledge does not have Sharia.

What's up, guys.

I'm a former muslim, saved by the grace of Jesus Christ, and I'm concerned about what's been happening lately in the Islamic world and our President's pathetic response, or lack thereof.

Pleased to meet you. Will you share your testimony with us?

 

[LionL]

As the original post has taken a verse from the Quran to show how "evil" the religion is, I could quote many Bible verses, just to balance the scales. They include the instruction to cut off a woman's hand if she tries to save her husband from a fight, the shame of baring a daughter rather than a son, women as inferior to and beneath men and the death penalty for having sex.

 

[Jack Russell]

I could quote many Bible verses, just to balance the scales...

Could you do that for me? Because the laundry list of "Bible verses" is just a bunch of ad hominem attacks on the Bible. I posted a specific verse from the Quran that justifies wifebeating and there is no such verse in the Bible.

Are you saying that you could prove Christianity is more evil than Islam? Or are you saying they are both equally good? Or both equally bad? I'm not quite sure what you're defending here, though I'm sure it isn't wifebeating.

Do you understand the point I made about how Islam and the Quran supports and promotes wifebeating? I think that's pretty evil. If you think that's okay or you have another moral equivalency about how Christianity is the same, please explain that.

 

[Jack Russell]

Dearborn does have the largest percentage of Middle Eastern immigrants in the country, but to my knowledge does not have Sharia.

Pleased to meet you. Will you share your testimony with us?

I would love to, thank you, I'll try to keep it short.

I studied Islam and the Quran for about 4-5 years after being unable to deal with the immorality of my peers and unable to find Christians who were nice. I had been reading the Bible for about 5 years but I wasn't saved yet, I didn't truly understand the Gospel, my need for salvation, and the grace of Christ dying on the cross for our sins.

After taking shahada, the first thing the imams did when I went to mosque was show me photographs from the conflict in Bosnia-Herzegovina. Muslims were being killed there and the attitude of the imams was "we need to do something about this" i.e. wage jihad. A few years later, John Walker, AKA "Johnny Taliban" was recruited not 100 miles away from me.

A couple years before that, I was exhausted with Islam. Being sick of several illnesses and working two jobs, Islam offered no comfort. As much as a third of the Quran talks about Hell, and it repeatedly tells of how merciful and compassionate God is, but offers no such examples. There is no healing in the Quran, or examples of God being kind.

I heard a pastor on the radio one day (my co-worker used to listen to Christian radio in our work vehicle) saying how God wasn't angry with me, He wants to help us quit sin, He isn't just waiting to destroy us. The Quran pretty much says otherwise. I immediately felt God's love for me like I had never felt, and I understood the mercy of Jesus Christ dying for our sins. In the next few months God healed me of several illnesses I'd had for years.

 

[LionL]

Could you do that for me?

OK. I'll look them up and get back to you in the morning. Always happy to oblige.

Are you saying that you could prove Christianity is more evil than Islam? Or are you saying they are both equally good? Or both equally bad?

Neither religion is bad per se. Both have a majority of followers who ignore the 'evil' verses in their holy book and a minority who stick with them.

Do you understand the point I made about how Islam and the Quran supports and promotes wifebeating?

I understand that the verse you quoted is in the Quran. I also understand that the vast majority of Muslims do not beat their wives. Do you understand that there are verses in the Bible which condemn women as inferior to men? I doubt that many Christians actually believe that to be true.

Why are you so anti-Islam? Yes, condemn wife beaters but do not suggest that all or even a large percentage of Muslims are wife beaters.

 

[Sketcher]

Neither religion is bad per se. Both have a majority of followers who ignore the 'evil' verses in their holy book and a minority who stick with them.

You do realize that the Bible has one set of instructions for Jews and a different set of instructions for Christians, right?

I also understand that the vast majority of Muslims do not beat their wives.

Please show us some reliable statistics to prove this.

Do you understand that there are verses in the Bible which condemn women as inferior to men? I doubt that many Christians actually believe that to be true.

You'll need the share these verses book, chapter, and verse.

 

[miamited]

Hi jack,

Well, first, one must understand that our president is the President of the United States. He is not the president of other countries. He doesn't really have any say in how other countries do their business or run their countries. To be honest, he doesn't even have sovereign power here in the U.S. He can certainly appeal to some other government to do something, but he has no power to compel them to do such. I say this because you mention his response as being 'pathetic'. So, I would ask you, what should he do? What specific steps do you think he should take that would make the governments and culture in question change their whole worldview of women?

Further, this issue of 'spouse abuse' that you mention has been going on for centuries. Why is it that today the sitting president's work is pathetic, but 10 years ago it was not, and yet the problem did exist then also? If your response might be, "Well, no, the United States' response to spouse abuse in muslim countries has always been pathetic, then you probably should say it like that rather than appear to pin responsibility on the current sitting president. And again I would remind you that we are not the sovereign ruler of the world. We are merely another country living among other countries. Each of which have their own sovereignty and get to make their own laws and treat their people the way they believe they should be treated.

You gave the answer to the reason that this practice is accepted in many muslim countries as being the instruction of what they hold as their holy writings. So, what, we should tell them that they have to put the book down and forget about what it says? Or, we should tell them that their book is wrong and they have to change their ways because we say it's wrong? After all, they obviously don't believe it's wrong if that's the basis for their actions and such things are generally accepted all the way up into the highest echelons of their governments.

I ask again, what specific steps would you tell the president to take that you know would 'fix' the problem?

Quite frankly, the only way any nation has been able to change another whole nation is to go to war with them or cause some severe economic problem which hurts the citizenry more than the governments. And the track record of such things actually bringing about the desired change is sketchy at best. If you look at present day South Vietnam you will find that it operates pretty much under communistic ideology and yet the U.S gave the lives of thousands of our citizens to try and prevent that. Right now in Iraq the political situation isn't a lot different than it was before we went to war over there, yet we fought to bring about changes in that government. We have had economic sanctions in place against Cuba for decades and yet such an effort hasn't brought about any change in their government.

Telling another nation that what they are doing is wrong and forcing them to toe the line isn't always an easy task and this is why I think you should let the president know that you have the answer to the problem and how the changes can be brought about.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

 

[Jack Russell]

Hi jack,

You gave the answer to the reason that this practice is accepted in many muslim countries as being the instruction of what they hold as their holy writings. So, what, we should tell them that they have to put the book down and forget about what it says?

Actually our job as Christians is to share the Gospel with muslims hoping they themselves will repent, accept the free gift of salvation from Jesus Christ, and turn away from the evil book on their own accord.

The first thing the President can do is repent of his support of feticide (55+ million dead babies in America) and sodomy (1 out of 4 gay men with AIDS).

If he doesn't repent of these sins and accept Christ as his savior, he will never have a clue about how to properly handle Islamic nations. And if our country does not repent of these sins we will continue to be attacked and abused by Islamic nations and muslims in the same way that God allowed Israel to eventually be overrun by Babylon for their sins of child sacrifice and male prostitution (sodomy) in the Temple.

 

[Jack Russell]

Does any one know how to deal with Islam?

Yes!

The American military and the CIA dealt with Islam and the Islamic world just fine in the 20th century up until about the time of the Clinton Administration.

As for how Christians should deal with Islam, we should learn about it so we can witness to muslims even more effectively, and also educate our fellow Americans about the evil of Islam when they are naively sympathetic to it.

 

[miamited]

Actually our job as Christians is to share the Gospel with muslims hoping they themselves will repent, accept the free gift of salvation from Jesus Christ, and turn away from the evil book on their own accord.

The first thing the President can do is repent of his support of feticide (55+ million dead babies in America) and sodomy (1 out of 4 gay men with AIDS).

If he doesn't repent of these sins and accept Christ as his savior, he will never have a clue about how to properly handle Islamic nations. And if our country does not repent of these sins we will continue to be attacked and abused by Islamic nations and muslims in the same way that God allowed Israel to eventually be overrun by Babylon for their sins of child sacrifice and male prostitution (sodomy) in the Temple.

Hi jack,

Why oh why do people, who claim themselves to be christians make up false claims and promote false ideas? Answer that for me please.

You bring up a bunch a woo-ha about dead babies and gay men. Have you actually been living under a rock all your life and just came out last week to see the world. How in the name of truth do you lay the blame of abortion and homosexuality at the feet of the current sitting president? Abortion has been legal and well practiced in this country since the Roe v. Wade decision in 1973. How in the world, in your christian mind, do you resolve in your head to now claim that President Obama needs to repent of 55 million aborted babies? You know who needs to repent of 55 million dead babies? The 55 million people who went to someone to have their baby aborted!

The president does not make, nor is he responsible for, whether it is President Obama or Bush or Clinton or any other president, the decisions that individuals make. Whether or not the president of our nation is or is not a christian has absolutely no bearing on the choices that individuals make. There are 55+ million dead babies because there are 55+ million people who chose on their own to have an abortion. Why don't you lay the blame for the abortion epidemic on the door step of those who are responsible for the abortion epidemic.

The president, so far as I am aware has never forced anyone to have an abortion. As far as I know there has never been anyone who actually performs abortions force someone to have one. They are free choices made by individuals for whatever reasons they have individually to have an abortion. Why do you think to yourself that President Obama supports abortion? Has his wife ever had one? Have you spoken with him in private and he has claimed to you that he supports abortion? On what basis do you make the claim that President Obama supports abortion?

The same thing holds for homosexual activity. From all indications that I have seen President Obama is a heterosexual male. God isn't going to punish him because individual people choose the homosexual lifestyle. The Scriptures are clear. The one who sins shall die.

Now, let me get back to my previous request of you. Ok, you are a christian, you have repented of your sin. What specific steps should the president take, based on your testimony of yourself and your faith, to 'fix' the problem you've got stuck in your craw in the middle east as regards the muslim faith?

You wrote: in the same way that God allowed Israel to eventually be overrun by Babylon for their sins of child sacrifice and male prostitution (sodomy) in the Temple.

Yes, God will decree righteous judgment upon the earth, but I'm confident that His judgment will fall on those who sin. The one who got an abortion and never repented. The homosexual who never repented. The thief and the liar who never repented (so you've got some work to do on that one). The fornicator and the one whose heart was full of hate and never repented. Those are the ones on whom God's judgment will fall.

Just as in Israel, God's judgment didn't just destroy king so-and-so, but all the people who were sinners. The whole country was overrun and not just because the king was a sinner, but because all the people were sinners. I have raised up children, declares the Lord, and all have turned their backs on me and spurned me. They have all become worthless! They are like a hut in a field of melons. They all sin and approve of their sin declares the Lord of hosts, the Lord Almighty.

You seem to think that our governmental system is different than it actually is. The president, no matter who it is, cannot just sweep his hand across the desk of his office and declare that something is legal or illiegal. That is the job of our legislative body. So before you start jumping up and down that the president is responsible for all the ills of our nation, maybe you should spend some time studying how the government of our nation works.

People who hold President Obama, or any other president, as singularly responsible and capable of changing the laws in our country really don't have a clue about how our government works. They are people with no understanding. They bluster and haruumph! about things and point fingers and throw out empty threats and claims for which they don't have a clue what they're talking about. And these people, when they attach themselves to the 'christian' faith, make those of that faith appear as fools to those who are not of that faith. Because they think that we are all like that fool.

I'm sorry if this comes off a bit tough, but really, you are way out on a limb that you yourself are cutting off behind you and hopefully you'll stop and consider the total lack of understanding that your post reveals.

Anyway, I hope you'll give me an answer to the now several times repeated question. If you won't send your great knowledgeable wisdom to the president, if you'll reveal this great mystery to me, I will.

God bless you,
In Christ, Ted

 

[miamited]

Hi again Jack,

Listen friend, if you want to change the laws in the United States, then work to elect legislators that will change the laws to how you'd like to have them changed. That's who makes and changes the laws in our nation.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

 

[Jack Russell]

...but really, you are way out on a limb that you yourself are cutting off behind you and hopefully you'll stop and consider the total lack of understanding that your post reveals...

Please put that in a mirror. I couldn't even make it through your whole post.

You support Obama, I get it.

If you want to read the books of Kings and see what happens when wicked kings ruled Israel, go for it.

 

[miamited]

`

Please put that in a mirror. I couldn't even make it through your whole post.

You support Obama, I get it.

If you want to read the books of Kings and see what happens when wicked kings ruled Israel, go for it.

Hi jack,

I've read the book of the kings several times through. I get what you're saying. My issue is that you're holding the wrong king liable. President Obama's presidency has had little to no impact on the issue of abortion. Yes, the ACA does address the issue of who might pay for an abortion, but the legality of the procedure has never been an issue during his administration. Abortions under the ACA are required to be paid from separate funds that insurance companies collect and are absolutely not supported by government funding. So, under President Obama's administration, as far as anyone can tell, he is not particularly 'for' abortions.

The king that will have lead the nation to ruin because under his administration abortions were made legal would be President Richard Nixon. So if you want to be honest in your assessment as to 'who' is the one responsible for leading America into the world of abortion and 'who' needs to repent, that would be the person you need to direct your ire towards. President Obama's administration has maintained that abortions shall not be paid for with government funding.

Similarly with the gay rights issue. Most of what is turning the world on it's head regarding gay rights are individual states, not the federal government. The individual states make their individual state's marriage laws. Of course, because of this issue, at some point the federal government will probably one day have to make a stand on it, but that time is not now and it won't likely come under President Obama's administration.

I understand and I get what your complaint is, but I'm just asking you to be honest in your judgment as to 'who' is responsible. No, I did not vote for President Obama. However, I believe in the biblical instruction that I respect those in authority over me. I am allowed to cast my vote for who I believe will be the best leader of our nation, but once that decision is made, whether it's my guy or the other guy, my job is then to respect the person who is in that position of authority.

Perhaps you should read the book of Daniel. Daniel lived under a king who was not a righteous man, but Daniel never once disrespected his position as king. He didn't always agree with him, but even when he was released from the lion's den he addressed Nebedchudnezzer with, "Oh king live forever..." He didn't go around bad mouthing the king even though he had tried to have his best friends killed in a fiery furnace.

Further, you honestly don't seem to have a good grasp of exactly how our government works and who is really responsible for the laws created and enforced in our nation. It isn't the position of the president, no matter who the man is.

BTW, if you don't want to read rebuttals to your position, then just say so. It's quite alright with me.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

 

[LionL]

You do realize that the Bible has one set of instructions for Jews and a different set of instructions for Christians, right?

Of course. But some Christians take instruction from the Old Testament.

Please show us some reliable statistics to prove this.

Does experience count? I have known many Muslims and have no reason to believe that they were beaten by their husbands - no more than non Muslims anyway.

You'll need the share these verses book, chapter, and verse.

1 Timothy 2:11-12 - Women are inferior to men.
1 Corinthians 11:5 - Women must cover their heads whilst praying.

A couple of examples of the Bible's depiction of women as inferior. There are many, many more in the Old Testament.

You don't have to fight Islam. It is not 'evil'. God save us from fundamentalists of any religion.

 

[Sketcher]

Of course. But some Christians take instruction from the Old Testament.

And whether or not they do so correctly depends on which instruction, and why. There are takeaways from it, but our marching orders are in the New Testament instead.

Does experience count? I have known many Muslims and have no reason to believe that they were beaten by their husbands - no more than non Muslims anyway.

Unless you personally know most of the world's 1.6 billion Muslims, no it does not. I got to know a couple of Muslim guys growing up. Good guys, but they unfortunately don't speak for most of the Muslim world. If they did, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

1 Timothy 2:11-12 - Women are inferior to men.
1 Corinthians 11:5 - Women must cover their heads whilst praying.

A couple of examples of the Bible's depiction of women as inferior.

1 Timothy 2:11-12 - "Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet."

That's not inferiority, it does not say anything about the value of women or contradict the Christian teaching of their being equal co-heirs in the Kingdom of God. It simply speaks to the manner in which women were instructed to learn in a society that largely forbade their education, within the context of public worship. The restriction does not apply to private settings.

1 Corinthians 11:5 - "but every wife who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head, since it is the same as if her head were shaven."

This too is not inferiority, it does not say anything about the value of women or contradict the Christian teaching of their being equal co-heirs in the Kingdom of God. Rather, it states the manner in which they should conduct themselves in public worship because of their role.

God save us from fundamentalists of any religion.

Personally, I'm a fan of being fundamental about "Love your neighbor as yourself."

 

[Albion]

What's up, guys.

I'm a former muslim, saved by the grace of Jesus Christ, and I'm concerned about what's been happening lately in the Islamic world and our President's pathetic response, or lack thereof.

We need to understand what Islam is. We are hearing about the reality of jihad in the Quran, but there is more evil in the Quran as well. Here is what should be the infamous verse in the Quran which commands husbands to beat and isolate their wives:

Why would this be posted on the "Conservative Christianity" forum?

 

[LionL]

Personally, I'm a fan of being fundamental about "Love your neighbor as yourself."

Amen to that. If only all members of all faiths followed this one rule!

 

[Albion]

Could this be moved to a more appropriate forum?