Speaking In Tounges...

OzSpen · Jun 18, 2011

NvxiaLee said:
Pentecostal TV Evangelists are almost synonymous with scandal. But, the point of Charles Manson is to illustrate that tongues has nothing to do with righteousness, religion, or denomination. The difference between a prison convict and a Pentecostal isn't that one has the gift of tongues, but that one wants to test God on the issue.

Nvx,

You really do have an anti-Pentecostal agenda. While I am not Pentecostal, some of the most godly people I know are Pentecostals. Associating them with Charles Manson is a travesty of biblical justice.

I note that you are Presbyterian. Are you proud of the exploits of New Zealand Presbyterian minister, Lloyd Geering? I would not dare label all Presbyterians, including yourself, with the theological heresy of Lloyd Geering. Neither should you commit the logical fallacy of labelling all Pentecostals who speak in tongues with the criminality of Charles Manson.

By the way, this is a Baptist directory. Why are you, a Presbyterian, participating in this directory? Why don't you join this Presbyterian directory: Confessional, Covenantal, Creedal - Presbyterian - Christian Forums

Sincerely, Oz

NvxiaLee · Jun 18, 2011

OzSpen said:
I note that you are Presbyterian. Are you proud of the exploits of New Zealand Presbyterian minister, Lloyd Geering? I would not dare label all Presbyterians, including yourself, with the theological heresy of Lloyd Geering. Neither should you commit the logical fallacy of labelling all Pentecostals who speak in tongues with the criminality of Charles Manson.

Lloyd Geering does not represent traditional or conservative Presbyterian theology. But, all Pentecostals are in error, not just Benny Hinn.

By the way, this is a Baptist directory. Why are you, a Presbyterian, participating in this directory? Why don't you join this Presbyterian directory: Confessional, Covenantal, Creedal - Presbyterian - Christian Forums

As a rule (as already spelled out in this thread), Baptists are not Pentecostals. So, I am defending Baptist doctrine in this thread. The Presbyterian forum is all but dead.

OzSpen · Jun 18, 2011

NvxiaLee said:
Lloyd Geering does not represent traditional or conservative Presbyterian theology. But, all Pentecostals are in error, not just Benny Hinn.

As a rule (as already spelled out in this thread), Baptists are not Pentecostals. So, I am defending Baptist doctrine in this thread. The Presbyterian forum is all but dead.

Nvx,

With respect, Lloyd Geering and other theological liberals in clergy are allowed to promote their views in some Presbyterian denominations. I do not support their views, but some Presbyterian denominations accept their non-orthodox views. The largest Presbyterian denomination in the USA, The Presbyterian Church - USA, is a liberal denomination. See HERE.

All Pentecostals are in error according to your interpretation. That is not how many evangelical Christians interpret passages such as 1 Cor. 12-14. But with your anti-Pentecostal hermeneutic, I am not going to engage with you further to show you exegetically that the charismatic/Pentecostals are correct in their interpretation of 1 Cor. I would be wasting my keyboard time trying to convince you.

You don't understand Baptist theology when you say that Baptists are not Pentecostals. I could just as easily say that Baptists are not Reformed or Arminian either, if I used your method of judgment. The facts are that the evangelical Baptists believe the Bible, so allow for charismatics and non-charismatics, Reformed and Arminian.

As for the Presbyterian forum being nearly dead, that's not the point. This is a Baptist directory.

Sincerely, Oz

SharonL · Jun 18, 2011

Oh my - how heartbreaking to see the Power of God being trashed so carelessly. You know not what you are speaking of when you call praying in tongues as faking it. Try it - then play it back - see if it sounds the same.

There are two kinds of tongues - one is spoken to the church and must have an interpreter or it is not from God - the other is a prayer language between you and God. The Bible tells us we know not how to pray, but our spirit does. If you have ever been in church or a gathering and had words given from the Throne of God and have it interpreted for you, there would be no way you could call it fake.

Praying in tongues carries power. In my own life, many, many times I have seen this power. I would be very careful making fun of the power of God because you know not what you are speaking.

OzSpen · Jun 18, 2011

SharonL said:
Oh my - how heartbreaking to see the Power of God being trashed so carelessly. You know not what you are speaking of when you call praying in tongues as faking it. Try it - then play it back - see if it sounds the same.

There are two kinds of tongues - one is spoken to the church and must have an interpreter or it is not from God - the other is a prayer language between you and God. The Bible tells us we know not how to pray, but our spirit does. If you have ever been in church or a gathering and had words given from the Throne of God and have it interpreted for you, there would be no way you could call it fake.

Praying in tongues carries power. In my own life, many, many times I have seen this power. I would be very careful making fun of the power of God because you know not what you are speaking.

Sharon,

You have stated it so well. However, exegetically it is clearly demonstrated from 1 Cor. 14 to be a true and genuine manifestation of a gift of the Spirit. However the 'rationalistic' Christians want to deny its biblical base and its benefits to Christian growth.

Keep up the good work of responding on this Forum to the doubters. It is a tragedy when someone wants to identify speaking in tongues, a genuine gift of the Spirit, with the criminal, Charles Manson.

In Christ, Oz

thegospelisgoodnews · Jun 18, 2011

No doubt there is great fakery, many counterfeits, but this is only a satanic tactic to lead you away from true Holy Spirit power, don't throw the baby out with the bath water, the gifts are biblical, how they are being witnessed in many churches are not

OzSpen · Jun 18, 2011

thegospelisgoodnews said:
No doubt there is great fakery, many counterfeits, but this is only a satanic tactic to lead you away from true Holy Spirit power, don't throw the baby out with the bath water, the gifts are biblical, how they are being witnessed in many churches are not

Amen! The wheat grows with the tares in many churches, including evangelical and Pentecostal, but that does not make all Pentecostals promoters of fakery

In Christ, Oz

stelow · Jun 18, 2011

The true gifts of tongues given by God the Father, through His Holy Spirit was real, and served the purpose, He intended for the gift to have...

1 Corinthians 14:22

22 Therefore tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe, but to those who believe not; but prophesying serveth not those who believe not, but those who believe.

Presbyterian Continuist · Jun 19, 2011

NvxiaLee said:
Lloyd Geering does not represent traditional or conservative Presbyterian theology. But, all Pentecostals are in error, not just Benny Hinn.

As a rule (as already spelled out in this thread), Baptists are not Pentecostals. So, I am defending Baptist doctrine in this thread. The Presbyterian forum is all but dead.

I happen to be a Presbyterian elder, with links to Glen Eden and Ranui Baptist churches in Auckland, as well as having a background in the Pentecostal church.

I can say with absolute certainty that your statement about "all Pentecostals are in error" is totally wrong. I have fellowshipped in a number of Pentecostal churches, one at leadership level, and the basic theology is not much different from Baptist theology, except that more emphasis is placed on the contempory operation of the gifts of the Spirit.

I can see this confidently because I spent about 8 years in Baptist churches, 4 years of which I served as a deacon. I can assure you that the basic evangelical theological basis for both churches are the same.

If you are saying that Pentecostals are in error because they practice the gifts of the Spirit as outlined in 1 Corinthians 12 and 14, then prove that from Scripture, because if it 'aint in the Bible then it 'aint true. The gifts of the Spirit are in the Bible, therefore they are true. Cessationist theory 'aint in the Bible therefore it certainly 'aint true.

Presbyterian Continuist · Jun 19, 2011

His_disciple3 said:
the Baptist Church that I attend has several people that prayers in tongues and there has been prophecy given during the services also.

Don't get drawn into a debate with this brother, otherwise you will get into a two-horse debate which will spoil the thread. You can't win against someone who is totally convinced that Pentecostalism is a cult.

His_disciple3 · Jun 19, 2011

Oscarr said:
Don't get drawn into a debate with this brother, otherwise you will get into a two-horse debate which will spoil the thread. You can't win against someone who is totally convinced that Pentecostalism is a cult.

just trying to open their eyes that other denominations including Baptist are receiving the prophecy of Joel Chapter 2, that God will pour His Spirit out on all people, and I feel for him because, I may not have went as far as curse other members of the Body of Christ, but I was taught close to the same as he is teaching, until I got serious about my study of the Word, and saw things contrary to that teaching. hey If God can get through this thick skull and Heart, then there is hope for everyone!!

stelow · Jun 19, 2011

Run from those who are teaching false doctrine, that's what the Scriptures teach us to do, it's not up to us to open their eyes.

Presbyterian Continuist · Jun 19, 2011

stelow said:
Run from those who are teaching false doctrine, that's what the Scriptures teach us to do, it's not up to us to open their eyes.

I agree. Samuel did not try and stop the Israelites from having the king they wanted even though God told him that they were rejecting Him. Samuel even went and anointed the new king. So we don't stop people from believing what they want after we have shared the Word of God with them, and so we do not stop them experiencing the consequences of their choice.

OzSpen · Jun 19, 2011

Oscarr said:
Don't get drawn into a debate with this brother, otherwise you will get into a two-horse debate which will spoil the thread. You can't win against someone who is totally convinced that Pentecostalism is a cult.

Oscarr,

More than that, he has linked Pentecostalism to the criminal Charles Manson. When this happens, we can't have a reasonable conversation with such a person when he commits this kind of genetic logical fallacy.

In Christ, Oz

OzSpen · Jun 19, 2011

stelow said:
Run from those who are teaching false doctrine, that's what the Scriptures teach us to do, it's not up to us to open their eyes.

stelow,

Who are the people teaching false doctrine in this thread?

Thanks, Oz

stelow · Jun 19, 2011

Oscarr said:
I agree. Samuel did not try and stop the Israelites from having the king they wanted even though God told him that they were rejecting Him. Samuel even went and anointed the new king. So we don't stop people from believing what they want after we have shared the Word of God with them, and so we do not stop them experiencing the consequences of their choice.

Ten of the Apostles, Paul, and many others were martyred for spreading the good news, about the Kingdom of God. These men were obedient to the Gospel even unto death, just like their Lord and Savior.

stelow · Jun 19, 2011

OzSpen said:
stelow,

Who are the people teaching false doctrine in this thread?

Thanks, Oz

OzSpen,

Is that a loaded question?

May God bless;
Steve

stelow · Jun 19, 2011

the particular baptist said:
Shows the poor state of staffing at CF when tongue talkers overrun the Baptist board.

I'm sure there's somewhere on Christian Forums, where their ideas and systems, would be accepted.

OzSpen · Jun 20, 2011

stelow said:
OzSpen,

Is that a loaded question?

May God bless;
Steve

Steve,

Absolutely not. I was simply asking to inquire what you regarded as false doctrine.

While I am a convinced charismatic who attends a Baptist church, I regard the prosperity doctrine, whether it is taught by the charismatics Tilton, Copeland, Hagin, Hinn or others to be false according to the Scriptures.

I also regard the "confess it to possess it" theology among charismatics to be false. Former tennis champion, Margaret Court, is preaching such a view in her church in Perth, Western Australia. I have a critique of this view in, "Double faults and not aces".

Mine was an honest question to you.

In Christ, Oz

OzSpen · Jun 20, 2011

the particular baptist said:
Shows the poor state of staffing at CF when tongue talkers overrun the Baptist board.

Don't you have charismatic Baptist churches in your part of the world? There are quite of few of them in my state of Queensland, Australia.

Discussing gifts of the Spirit in a Baptist directory should be normal as the Baptists mostly are strong on the authority of Scripture. If the Scripture teaches the gifts of the Spirit as it does in passages such as Romans 12 and 1 Corinthians 12-14, it is normal to be discussing the gifts of the Spirit in a Baptist thread.

Perhaps there are others who have contributed to this thread who could tell of charismatic Baptist churches in your part of the world.

In Christ, Oz

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