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I got the names mixed up. It was Shamus who replied.
Actually, I took a lie detector test yesterday...No I didn't!
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I got the names mixed up. It was Shamus who replied.I laughed so hard, I'm choking!
I got the names mixed up. It was Shamus who replied.
Actually, I took a lie detector test yesterday...No I didn't!
Yes, I did. I think that anyone can call themselves an apostle if they are part of an interdenominational ministry that is recognised by a number of church groups, but they cannot really compare with the First Century apostles for the reasons which I stated. Actually, I'd be a bit suspicious of a person who went around calling himself an apostle, because it was never meant to be a title, but a role. So if others see that person fulfilling what they recognise as an apostleship role than they can say, "That person is an apostle" and be okay with it. It is basically the same as the Prophet role for the same reasons. There are people going around calling themselves prophets of the body of Christ, but they are nothing of the sort. If they are functioning in the prophetic, then they can say that because most of the time their prophetic role is limited to the group with which they are working. Others can identify the person as a prophet when they sense the impact of his prophecies and know in their spirits that the prophecy really do come through the Holy Spirit and complies with the purpose that Paul set out of what New Testament prophecy should have.BTW, did you see my post on apostles/missionaries?
Yes, I did. I think that anyone can call themselves an apostle if they are part of an interdenominational ministry that is recognised by a number of church groups, but they cannot really compare with the First Century apostles for the reasons which I stated. Actually, I'd be a bit suspicious of a person who went around calling himself an apostle, because it was never meant to be a title, but a role. So if others see that person fulfilling what they recognise as an apostleship role than they can say, "That person is an apostle" and be okay with it. It is basically the same as the Prophet role for the same reasons. There are people going around calling themselves prophets of the body of Christ, but they are nothing of the sort. If they are functioning in the prophetic, then they can say that because most of the time their prophetic role is limited to the group with which they are working. Others can identify the person as a prophet when they sense the impact of his prophecies and know in their spirits that the prophecy really do come through the Holy Spirit and complies with the purpose that Paul set out of what New Testament prophecy should have.
And I have only ever met one with what seems to me to be the true gift of prophecy. His name is Arvind DeSilva, originally from India. He lives in Waynesboro, Va.Yes, I don't like is when someone calls themselves Apostle so and so, but missionaries fulfill the role.
I've only met one prophet, and he was legit. His name was Dick Mills.
And I have only ever met one with what seems to me to be the true gift of prophecy. His name is Arvind DeSilva, originally from India. He lives in Waynesboro, Va.
I hadn't seen him for 25 years, when I went to hear him preach about a week ago on Saturday night... after the service, he said the Lord had given him a word for me... that my situation on the job that I had been praying about, would be changing very quickly. And that I should not worry about it. He said a few other things, very encouraging to me.
I had been praying about not getting enough hours on the job. I used to work 5 shifts a week, but had been cut back to 3. Which was shrinking my savings...
Well, on Monday morning, I got a phone call. I was being given back Monday 1st shift. And probably within a month will be up to 5 shifts per week again. Monday thru Friday, all first shifts. God is good!
No, he doesn't have any word more than God gives him for specific people. And Brother Arvind is not widely known. He doesn't seek big-time attention.I tried looking up Prophet Arvind DeSilva and nothing came up. I then tried Prophet Dick Mills and a lot came up. Dick Mills had the "office" of prophet. I've had the gift of prophecy, but am not a Prophet. I can't give a word from God to everyone I meet like he could. What about Arvind DeSilva?
No, he doesn't have any word more than God gives him for specific people. And Brother Arvind is not widely known. He doesn't seek big-time attention.
And a real prophet of God doesn't necessarily have a word for everyone.
Not the way I understand it.
I don't know Dick personally.Dick did.
I don't know Dick personally.
I have no way of verifying if he is always on-target.
There is a reason God tells us to know those who are over us in the Lord, and who labor among us...
Because their lives need to measure up.
And if they operate in the gift of prophecy, it needs to be verified.
Which is why I just don't pay much attention to the "prophecies" of big-time preachers.
It is one thing for a prophetic person to have a word of encouragement for those who come across his path. It is quite another for people to continually ask for words of guidance and encouragement from the prophet. Trying to get a special "word of the day" is too similar to consulting a horoscope for me. Also it makes one too dependent on another human being instead of allowing the Holy Spirit to give the necessary guidance without regularly employing a "middle-man".No, he doesn't have any word more than God gives him for specific people. And Brother Arvind is not widely known. He doesn't seek big-time attention.
And a real prophet of God doesn't necessarily have a word for everyone.
Not the way I understand it.
I agree wholeheartedly. It's a very immature approach to hearing from God.It is one thing for a prophetic person to have a word of encouragement for those who come across his path. It is quite another for people to continually ask for words of guidance and encouragement from the prophet. Trying to get a special "word of the day" is too similar to consulting a horoscope for me. Also it makes one too dependent on another human being instead of allowing the Holy Spirit to give the necessary guidance without regularly employing a "middle-man".
How can anyone learn mechanics only by studying about it, without any hands-on experience?I don't really have a dog in the fight as far as speaking in tongues goes, but I'd like to throw out a suggestion of Glossolalia by SBTS professors Frank Stagg, E. Glenn Hinson, Wayne E. Oates if anyone wants to read a brief, but good, analysis of the phenomena in the New Testament.
How can anyone learn mechanics only by studying about it, without any hands-on experience?
How can anyone lead anyone else to the Lord, without first experiencing salvation?
How can anyone understand the gift of tongues, only by studying about it, outside of the context of experience?
If I wanted to learn from any preacher or teacher about any gift, I would seek out someone who actually has experience in it, instead of one who thinks it isn't for today.
That kind of teaching only exists to prop up a lack of experience.
Kind of like the kind of theology that says you can't know if you are saved.
The preachers who don't have the experience will tell others they can't know, either.
How can anyone learn mechanics only by studying about it, without any hands-on experience?
Yet, that is how most Baptists approach the subject of tongues; mechanically.The book isn't trying to teach mechanics, that isn't its goal. Have you read it?
The book isn't trying to teach mechanics, that isn't its goal. Have you read it?
I agree. The things of God are spiritually discerned. Academic study can go only so far but must fall short. I see that our friend has a Masters of Divinity from a Presbyterian seminary. I am a Presbyterian elder and also have a Masters in Divinity, and so I know that our local Knox Presbyterian seminary teaches cessationism and the teaching that tongues and other supernatural gifts are not for today is so strong that it is very difficult to change the prejudice that has arisen from it. My daughter has studied Psychology and she says that stuff that has been drummed into someone during their formative years is so ingrained that it is almost impossible to get them believe otherwise. This is why those who have had cessationism drummed into them by their churches or seminaries are so adamant against it, that all the best arguments in support of continuance fall on deaf ears. Even when they see the miracles happen in front of their eyes they won't believe them, and they will suggest that the devil can perform signs and wonders as well.Yes, those that don't believe are like these in 1 Corinthians 14:23, either unsaved or merely uninformed. Therefore, as Paul said, "Let those who are ignorant, remain ignorant." (same chapter)
I agree. The things of God are spiritually discerned. Academic study can go only so far but must fall short. I see that our friend has a Masters of Divinity from a Presbyterian seminary. I am a Presbyterian elder and also have a Masters in Divinity, and so I know that our local Knox Presbyterian seminary teaches cessationism and the teaching that tongues and other supernatural gifts are not for today is so strong that it is very difficult to change the prejudice that has arisen from it. My daughter has studied Psychology and she says that stuff that has been drummed into someone during their formative years is so ingrained that it is almost impossible to get them believe otherwise. This is why those who have had cessationism drummed into them by their churches or seminaries are so adamant against it, that all the best arguments in support of continuance fall on deaf ears. Even when they see the miracles happen in front of their eyes they won't believe them, and they will suggest that the devil can perform signs and wonders as well.
So what is the answer? The acceptance of continuance can only come through a revelation from the Holy Spirit. It seems that God has to personally intervene by a miracle of revelation to cut through the strong prejudice that is so built into these ones who will not believe that people can speak in tongues inspired by the Holy Spirit today. Jack Deere is a good example of a person trained at the cessationist Dallas Seminary, and who was an avowed cessationist for a fair while, and then God through a series of events, intervened and changed his belief. He wrote a book called "Surprised By the Power of The Spirit" which charts his transformation from cessationism to continuance. So it is possible for a strongly prejudiced cessaationist to be transformed by the power of the Spirit, but it would take a miracle of God to do it.
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