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Speaking in tongues
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Resha Caner
Expert Fool
It happens.
It has also been faked, abused, and misunderstood - just like every other gift.
Why? What's your interest in the subject?
It has also been faked, abused, and misunderstood - just like every other gift.
Why? What's your interest in the subject?
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Resha Caner
Expert Fool
Do you mean the commentary on speaking in tongues sounds like gibberish (i.e. nonsense), or the people you've experienced doing it sound as if they're speaking gibberish?
Speaking in tongues does happen (Acts 10:44-46).
But there is also gibberish (glossolalia), which I have always interpreted as emotional euphoria - maybe due to the Spirit, maybe not. It is one of my pet peeves that people think an adrenalin rush equates to something "spiritual." Maybe that is due to my own experience with acquaintances who descend into glossolalia - and do not heed 1 Corinthians 14:27.
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It happened in Acts 10:44-46, anyway. And, it happened for good reason, to show the Apostle Peter - and all of us, by recording it - that God accepts men from every nation.
Christians, regardless or race, are fellow citizens of Israel. God does not show favoritism.
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Any reader of Scripture should be able to see that all references to speaking in tongues is a reference to different languages, which God used in Acts at the beginning of the church to unite believers (see Acts 2:4-8).
I think that the reason many Christians like to omit verse 6 is so they can continue the gibberish and pretend to be holier than others. It is offensive to God, I feel sure; though I realize there are simple believers that don't realize this is false doctrine, and try to measure up to the expectation some older ones have for them. I have a very good paper on this which shows the folly of the behavior.
- 1 Watchman
I think that the reason many Christians like to omit verse 6 is so they can continue the gibberish and pretend to be holier than others. It is offensive to God, I feel sure; though I realize there are simple believers that don't realize this is false doctrine, and try to measure up to the expectation some older ones have for them. I have a very good paper on this which shows the folly of the behavior.
- 1 Watchman
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marksman315
Finally in the Fight
I can speak on this issue because I have spoken in tongues, and I have been enlightened that this should not be happening in our day and age (I've been a Baptist for the past two years).
My pastor recommended reading the book "Charismatic Chaos" by John MacArthur, and it was very enlightening. I highly suggest reading this book. Look at some of the other claims made by some of the practicers.
When I spoke in tongues the first time, I had a wave of power and warmth come over me, and tears were coming from my eyes. This is a very similar experience I recently saw on the TV show "Bizarre Foods" with Andrew Zimmern. He had this same experience (without the talking) put on him from a pagan ritual. It really scared me.
The experience of speaking in tongues were real experiences, however, where the power is coming from begs serious question. It's scary for me to admit that this did not come from God. However, God is soverign over all and had allowed this to happen to me so I can tell others about it from a "now enlightened" point of view.
Seek the truth, and not the experience. Experience fades like a drug. Real truth comes from God, and real truth never dies.
My pastor recommended reading the book "Charismatic Chaos" by John MacArthur, and it was very enlightening. I highly suggest reading this book. Look at some of the other claims made by some of the practicers.
When I spoke in tongues the first time, I had a wave of power and warmth come over me, and tears were coming from my eyes. This is a very similar experience I recently saw on the TV show "Bizarre Foods" with Andrew Zimmern. He had this same experience (without the talking) put on him from a pagan ritual. It really scared me.
The experience of speaking in tongues were real experiences, however, where the power is coming from begs serious question. It's scary for me to admit that this did not come from God. However, God is soverign over all and had allowed this to happen to me so I can tell others about it from a "now enlightened" point of view.
Seek the truth, and not the experience. Experience fades like a drug. Real truth comes from God, and real truth never dies.
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Leimeng
Senior Member
~ Any Christian can speak in tongues.
~ Not every Christian will.
~ In the BIBLE, there are at least four different purposes and types of speaking in tongues.
~ Tongues and other gifts existed under the Old Covenant, and under the New Covenant. We are still under the New Covenant. There is no other covenant which GOD operates under. Tongues and other gifts still exist today and are practiced by those who believe (per Scripture).
~ I would not recommend J MacArthur's book to ANYONE. The esegisis is very poor. The scholarship is horrendous, and the blatent misquotes and highly selective editing of others is absolutely dishonest and not reflective of one who calls themselves Christian. If an undergraduate student handed me a paper as poorly researched and written as Charismatic Chaos, they would fail and be placed on academic probation for academic dishonesty.
~ Not every Christian will.
~ In the BIBLE, there are at least four different purposes and types of speaking in tongues.
~ Tongues and other gifts existed under the Old Covenant, and under the New Covenant. We are still under the New Covenant. There is no other covenant which GOD operates under. Tongues and other gifts still exist today and are practiced by those who believe (per Scripture).
~ I would not recommend J MacArthur's book to ANYONE. The esegisis is very poor. The scholarship is horrendous, and the blatent misquotes and highly selective editing of others is absolutely dishonest and not reflective of one who calls themselves Christian. If an undergraduate student handed me a paper as poorly researched and written as Charismatic Chaos, they would fail and be placed on academic probation for academic dishonesty.
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A New Dawn
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I believe that it is a gift given for the building up and edifying of the church. For that reason, I do not believe it is needed much since we have the Bible, the NT canon in specific, which performs the same function. However, I have heard that it has been manifested in places where the church is not, nor do they have a NT printed in the language, such as when missionaries have gone to remote African tribes, each of which has their own language. I do believe that this is a proper use of tongues. I do believe that in order for there to be tongues spoken, there needs to be an interpretation of tongues, that is why I do not believe that much of what is called tongues today is truly speaking in tongues.
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What's the difference between tongues and gibberish that you think is tongues?
When Peter and the Apostles spoke in tongues at Pentecost, people of various nationalities understood what they were saying. But, we no longer need tongues to spread the gospel. When the perfect has come, the imperfect is done away with. Tongues was a temporary solution.
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E.C.
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Actually, the tongues which you have describe is not only the correct definition, as seen in Acts, but does still occur once in a while. It isn't only for the spreading of the Gospel, but for giving spiritual care as well. There was a Greek Orthodox monk who died in the early 1990s named Elder Paisios who lived (almost) his entire life in prayer and consequently became very close to God. As a result, people went to him because God revealed to him the solutions to their problems at the very root of them.
So tongues is still alive and well, but it is not the gibberish found in Pentecostal churches and is considered a minor gift.
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Just by way of information, we see that there are different references to tongues in the New Testament. I think we need to get away from how some groups are practising tongues and to get back to the Bible and see how it describes the gift, because it is through the pages of Scripture that we see what the gift actually is and how it should be practised.
The Day of Pentecost was a special event, and was designed to attract a whole crowd of pilgrims from all the different regions around Israel. As a result of hearing their own dialects being spoken they were convinced that God was doing something significant. After Peter's sermon, 3000 of them accepted Christ.
The Cornelius episode happened to convince Peter that the Holy Spirit fell on gentile believers as well as Jews. That was the point of the reference, not to give a doctrine on tongues.
The Ephesus episode was to show that John's baptism went so far, but the Gospel of Christ was the completion of John's ministry. When the Ephesian believers, who were baptised with John's baptism accepted Christ, the Holy Spirit fell on them to show Paul that these believers were truly Christian. I am not saying that tongues is essential for salvation as some teach. I am saying that the Holy Spirit validated Paul's preaching of the Gospel to these believers.
The doctrinal part of tongues is found in 1Corinthians 14. Paul gave this teaching to the Corinthians to correct bad practice. Paul's teaching is therefore sound and correct. He is saying the right way of practising tongues.
These are the points that Paul makes:
* Prophecy is to be preferred to tongues when in a church meeting.
* If tongues are used in a church meeting, there must be an interpreter to interpret them so that everyone understands what is being said.
* If praying in tongues is for personal edification then the believer must speak to himself and to God. Logically, this would happen in the believer's private prayer time where God would be the one who understands the language.
* Tongues used as a private prayer language builds a believer up in his/her faith.
* Tongues is not understood by anyone, including the person who speaks it because he is speaking mysteries in the Spirit to God.
* It should not be forbidden to speak in tongues.
* Paul spoke in tongues more than them all, yet in the church he would rather prophesy. This shows that in private Paul spoke in tongues often. Prayer to God in tongues was a big part of his private prayer. Some believe that this is why Paul was such a powerful apostle and evangelist.
* Paul did not treat the private use of tongues, nor the public use of tongues and interpretation as gibberish. He viewed tongues as a genuine language that is understood by God.
I have sat in on the conversations of Chinese, Samoans, and Indians as they were speaking in their languages. The languages sound like gibberish to me, but they are genuine understandable languages.
But when people get out of control and speak in church meetings without interpreters, I can believe that they are speaking in the flesh and not the Spirit. This is why many observers accuse them of speaking gibberish, and maybe that is what these people are speaking, seeing that they are ignoring the teaching of Paul on the subject,
Tongues is not usually accompanied by strong emotion. In private before God, there is no room for theatre or showmanship, there the language is spoken in a cool, calm and collected manner. It is a faith language, therefore is not based on emotions. If it was based on emotions, then it would not be faith.
If people seek the gift of tongues and are waiting for some emotional, sensory experience, the devil is always on hand to give them one as a counterfeit.
But when we are speaking of counterfeits we need to realise that a counterfeit mimics the real thing. So there has to be the real thing for the devil to give a counterfeit. If the real thing does not exist, why bother to have a counterfeit?
So it is really important to get away from the hangup of seeing tongues misused among some groups and judging the gift itself on that. If someone used a crescent spanner to hit someone on the head instead of undoing a bolt, do we say that crescent spanners are bad? No. We say that the person misusing the spanner is bad.
John Calvin says that there is a genuine gift of tongues and says that God withdrew it from the early church because it was so widely misused that for God to allow it to continue it would be further discredited and the work of the Holy Spirit would be brought into disrepute.
Perhaps, because of the wide misuse of tongues, thereby discrediting it and bringing the gifts and work of the Holy Spirit into disrepute in these days, it might be that God may remove it from the Church in general once more and its use be limited to small groups that will use it as Paul taught it should be used.
I trust that this is useful for clarifying how a conservative Presbyterian elder who believes in the right use of the gifts of the Spirit according to Scripture, rather than how many Pentecostal groups practice it.
The Day of Pentecost was a special event, and was designed to attract a whole crowd of pilgrims from all the different regions around Israel. As a result of hearing their own dialects being spoken they were convinced that God was doing something significant. After Peter's sermon, 3000 of them accepted Christ.
The Cornelius episode happened to convince Peter that the Holy Spirit fell on gentile believers as well as Jews. That was the point of the reference, not to give a doctrine on tongues.
The Ephesus episode was to show that John's baptism went so far, but the Gospel of Christ was the completion of John's ministry. When the Ephesian believers, who were baptised with John's baptism accepted Christ, the Holy Spirit fell on them to show Paul that these believers were truly Christian. I am not saying that tongues is essential for salvation as some teach. I am saying that the Holy Spirit validated Paul's preaching of the Gospel to these believers.
The doctrinal part of tongues is found in 1Corinthians 14. Paul gave this teaching to the Corinthians to correct bad practice. Paul's teaching is therefore sound and correct. He is saying the right way of practising tongues.
These are the points that Paul makes:
* Prophecy is to be preferred to tongues when in a church meeting.
* If tongues are used in a church meeting, there must be an interpreter to interpret them so that everyone understands what is being said.
* If praying in tongues is for personal edification then the believer must speak to himself and to God. Logically, this would happen in the believer's private prayer time where God would be the one who understands the language.
* Tongues used as a private prayer language builds a believer up in his/her faith.
* Tongues is not understood by anyone, including the person who speaks it because he is speaking mysteries in the Spirit to God.
* It should not be forbidden to speak in tongues.
* Paul spoke in tongues more than them all, yet in the church he would rather prophesy. This shows that in private Paul spoke in tongues often. Prayer to God in tongues was a big part of his private prayer. Some believe that this is why Paul was such a powerful apostle and evangelist.
* Paul did not treat the private use of tongues, nor the public use of tongues and interpretation as gibberish. He viewed tongues as a genuine language that is understood by God.
I have sat in on the conversations of Chinese, Samoans, and Indians as they were speaking in their languages. The languages sound like gibberish to me, but they are genuine understandable languages.
But when people get out of control and speak in church meetings without interpreters, I can believe that they are speaking in the flesh and not the Spirit. This is why many observers accuse them of speaking gibberish, and maybe that is what these people are speaking, seeing that they are ignoring the teaching of Paul on the subject,
Tongues is not usually accompanied by strong emotion. In private before God, there is no room for theatre or showmanship, there the language is spoken in a cool, calm and collected manner. It is a faith language, therefore is not based on emotions. If it was based on emotions, then it would not be faith.
If people seek the gift of tongues and are waiting for some emotional, sensory experience, the devil is always on hand to give them one as a counterfeit.
But when we are speaking of counterfeits we need to realise that a counterfeit mimics the real thing. So there has to be the real thing for the devil to give a counterfeit. If the real thing does not exist, why bother to have a counterfeit?
So it is really important to get away from the hangup of seeing tongues misused among some groups and judging the gift itself on that. If someone used a crescent spanner to hit someone on the head instead of undoing a bolt, do we say that crescent spanners are bad? No. We say that the person misusing the spanner is bad.
John Calvin says that there is a genuine gift of tongues and says that God withdrew it from the early church because it was so widely misused that for God to allow it to continue it would be further discredited and the work of the Holy Spirit would be brought into disrepute.
Perhaps, because of the wide misuse of tongues, thereby discrediting it and bringing the gifts and work of the Holy Spirit into disrepute in these days, it might be that God may remove it from the Church in general once more and its use be limited to small groups that will use it as Paul taught it should be used.
I trust that this is useful for clarifying how a conservative Presbyterian elder who believes in the right use of the gifts of the Spirit according to Scripture, rather than how many Pentecostal groups practice it.
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BAFRIEND
Well-Known Member
i can only give an outside opinion as i have never been in a denomination that accepts it nor a member of catholic charismatic renewal
it is my experience from what others have told me that most denoms that practice it and ccr hand out a 'how to' booklit telling people to begin by trying to speak 'baby talk' also know as babbling
if it is induced by the Holy Spirit then what is up with the how to booklit
it is my experience from what others have told me that most denoms that practice it and ccr hand out a 'how to' booklit telling people to begin by trying to speak 'baby talk' also know as babbling
if it is induced by the Holy Spirit then what is up with the how to booklit
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Amen! Tongues were known languages used by God to share the Gospel.
1 Corinthians 13:8-13 (KJV) 8 Charity never faileth: but whether [there be] prophecies, they shall fail; whether [there be] tongues, they shall cease; whether [there be] knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. 13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these [is] charity.
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lismore
Maranatha
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I was a member of a Pentecostal Church for eight years and never saw such a booklet.
Tongues are awesome, when a stranger comes into to the meeting and is touched by God because he hears people who do not naturally speak his language praising God in his own language.
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SharonL
Senior Veteran
Oscar did a beautiful job in explaining this beautiful gift of God. It saddens me to see this gift trashed so carelessly. The Power of God that people are trashing will some day become clear to them I pray.
The Bible tells us we know not how to pray, the Holy Spirit speaks through out spirit giving us our prayer language that is just between you and God. The tongues that are given in church, or a gathering is straight from the Throne and must have an interpreter. If you have ever been in a meeting where God has sent a Word, you will know it came from God and you can feel the very presence of the Holy Spirit - God will provide an interpreter for this kind of tongue.
Tongues have not passed away, but the devil has done a good job on making people think they have because they are so powerful and put a hurt on the enemy. Tongues are alive and well and carrys the Power of God every time.
The Bible tells us we know not how to pray, the Holy Spirit speaks through out spirit giving us our prayer language that is just between you and God. The tongues that are given in church, or a gathering is straight from the Throne and must have an interpreter. If you have ever been in a meeting where God has sent a Word, you will know it came from God and you can feel the very presence of the Holy Spirit - God will provide an interpreter for this kind of tongue.
Tongues have not passed away, but the devil has done a good job on making people think they have because they are so powerful and put a hurt on the enemy. Tongues are alive and well and carrys the Power of God every time.
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The perfect which is to come (I put that part of the quote in bold), is the perfected bride of Christ. Obviously that has not come yet, so the supernatural gifts have not passed away.
Those who think we don't need the supernatural gifts are full of pride, because they think that through man's wisdom, God's will can be done on earth these days. They pray that the Holy Spirit will move, but their prayers are useless and ignored by God, because His Holy Spirit moves supernaturally through the tools that He has provided.
There is nothing in Scripture that says that tongues is exclusively for preaching the Gospel. The doctrine of tongues is clearly explained by Paul in 1Corinthians 12 and 14, and there is absolutely no mention of tongues being used to preach the Gospel to the unconverted. Paul clearly teaches that tongues and prophecy are for the Christian church.
So, if it ain't in the Bible, then it ain't true. The notion that tongues have ceased is not in the Bible therefore it is a lie. The notion that tongues were used to preach the Gospel is also not in the Bible therefore that is a lie as well.
We can't say because the 120 spoke in all the languages of the regions around about Israel that they were preaching the Gospel, because Luke says that they were praising and glorifying God, not preaching the Gospel. It was Peter who got up and preached the Gospel in Aramaic. If the ones who spoke in tongues were preaching the Gospel, then why did Peter have to get up and explain what was happening and then preached the Gospel to them?
I wonder if some turn off their common sense and logical minds when they come to read the Scripture?
We cannot stop cessationists being that way, and we cannot stop them receiving the consequences of their pride and dependence on man instead of Christ. Those who love God and are fully dependent on Christ know that they need the supernatural tools of the Spirit in order the effectively preach the Gospel. I say that cessationists don't care very much about souls. They would rather see souls go to hell in their millions, than give up their pride and dependence on their own wisdom and seek God to confirm the preaching of the Gospel with supernatural signs and wonders.
Jesus said that we cannot serve two masters. We cannot serve the world and Christ as the same time. Cessationist theology is of the world, and theology will not make it into eternity. Those who make theology their master will go out into eternity naked and Christless.
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stelow
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I say to study First Corinthians 14 diligently, compare the different reputable commentaries, pray for understanding from the Holy Spirit, Paul gives us the answer.
Here's my take on it, do not forbid them to speak in tongues; do forbid them, if it's done as the pagans or cults, or in the assembly, if done by more than three, or when the gift of interpretation is lacking.
Not all will have this gift, and its importance seems to have less value than other gifts.
Here's my take on it, do not forbid them to speak in tongues; do forbid them, if it's done as the pagans or cults, or in the assembly, if done by more than three, or when the gift of interpretation is lacking.
Not all will have this gift, and its importance seems to have less value than other gifts.
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