Speaking in Tongues?

[CoderHead]

I was just involved in a discussion on speaking in tongues and would like to ask the following questions:

1. Is speaking in tongues a gift of the Holy Spirit?
2. Does the speaker know what they're saying?
3. Does the "tongue" resemble an actual language?
4. Who has the ability to translate what the speaker is saying?
5. If nobody else understands the speaker, what is the Holy Spirit accomplishing?
6. What is the Biblical basis for this phenomenon?
7. How can an onlooker tell the difference between someone who is genuinely speaking in tongues and someone who is just babbling incoherently?
8. How can an onlooker determine whether a person translating tongues is genuinely translating or making it up as they go?

That list may be a little scattered, but I think it covers the major points that need to be addressed. My most important question is #5: what does God hope to accomplish by having someone ramble on in an unintelligible language if nobody standing around that person has a clue what they're saying?

Thanks!

 

[Van]

If a tongue is a language, then speaking in tongues would be speaking in a different language.

We have nothing except what we have received.

It would be impossible to speak anything but babble unless the speaker knew what he or she was saying.

A person who both knew the language of the audience and the different language being spoken would be able to translate.

If no body understands the speaker, nothing useful to others is being accomplished.

The Biblical basis is the need to speak in a language that can be understood, like a missionary learning the language used in his or her mission field.

If the onlooker can understand the language being spoken, then he would know that the person is speaking in his or her tongue. If the speaker or the translator is not speaking in a tongue you understand, then there is no way to assess whether another tongue is being spoken.

 

[CoderHead]

So, you're saying that a person filled with the Holy Spirit should only be speaking in a tongue that is understandable by at least one person present, and that God's purpose for speaking in tongues is solely to get His message to people who don't speak the speaker's native language? That actually makes sense. But if that's true, then do you dismiss all of the people who break out into (apparent) babble during church services as kooks?

 

[aiki]

I was just involved in a discussion on speaking in tongues and would like to ask the following questions:

Is speaking in tongues a gift of the Holy Spirit?

1 Corinthians 12:7-10
7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all:
8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit,
9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit,
10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.

Does the speaker know what they're saying?

1 Corinthians 14:2-5 (NKJV)
2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.
3 But he who prophesies (or preaches) speaks edification and exhortation and comfort to men.
4 He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies (or preaches) edifies the church.
5 I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied; for he who prophesies is greater than he who speaks with tongues, unless indeed he interprets, that the church may receive edification.

Does the "tongue" resemble an actual language?

Acts 2:5-12
5 And there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven.
6 And when this sound occurred, the multitude came together, and were confused, because everyone heard them speak in his own language.
7 Then they were all amazed and marveled, saying to one another, "Look, are not all these who speak Galileans?
8 And how is it that we hear, each in our own language in which we were born?
9 Parthians and Medes and Elamites, those dwelling in Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia,
10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya adjoining Cyrene, visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes,
11 Cretans and Arabs--we hear them speaking in our own tongues the wonderful works of God."
12 So they were all amazed and perplexed, saying to one another, "Whatever could this mean?"

Who has the ability to translate what the speaker is saying?

See above.

If nobody else understands the speaker, what is the Holy Spirit accomplishing?

Not a whole lot.

What is the Biblical basis for this phenomenon?

See above.

How can an onlooker tell the difference between someone who is genuinely speaking in tongues and someone who is just babbling incoherently?

If what is said is does not agree with Scripture, it is false.

2 Peter 2:1-3
1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction.
2 And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed.
3 By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber.

Revelation 22:18-19
18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;
19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

If what is interpreted does not edify and is not intelligible, it is false. One can also "test the spirits":

1 John 4:1-3
1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
2 By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God,
3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.

1 Corinthians 14:27-28
27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, let there be two or at the most three, each in turn, and let one interpret.
28 But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in church, and let him speak to himself and to God.

1 Corinthians 14:33
33 For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.

How can an onlooker determine whether a person translating tongues is genuinely translating or making it up as they go?

See above.

That list may be a little scattered, but I think it covers the major points that need to be addressed. My most important question is #5: what does God hope to accomplish by having someone ramble on in an unintelligible language if nobody standing around that person has a clue what they're saying?

I think what Paul the apostle says in 1 Corinthians 14 answers this question very thoroughly.

Peace.

 

[CoderHead]

1 Corinthians 14:27-28
27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, let there be two or at the most three, each in turn, and let one interpret.
28 But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in church, and let him speak to himself and to God.

Awesome, thanks!

So what's your opinion on church services (I've seen a Pentecostal and AoG service) where multiple people get up and just start babbling incoherently? Are these people faking to get attention, are they truly overcome by the Spirit, or are they possessed?

 

[aiki]

So what's your opinion on church services (I've seen a Pentecostal and AoG service) where multiple people get up and just start babbling incoherently? Are these people faking to get attention, are they truly overcome by the Spirit, or are they possessed?

I don't have to give you merely my opinion. The apostle Paul makes it clear that what you describe above is not edifying spiritually and is a cause for scorn from the unbeliever. I agree entirely with him.

Are these people faking? I'm sure in some (if not most) instances that they are.

Are they truly overcome by the Spirit? Well, one can tell by evaluating how they speak in tongues:

Is it done "decently and in order"? Do those who hear someone speaking in tongues gain a deeper understanding of God's truth? Are they edified spiritually? If not, God is not in it. God is "not the author of confusion," the apostle Paul writes, so when I see "Christians" together in a state of utter chaos, hooting, laughing, babbling, and rolling about on the floor I can be sure God is not in involved.

Are those who claim to be "in the Spirit," and speaking in tongues as a result, actually demonically possessed? Perhaps, but I think this is far less likely than the other alternatives you've suggested.

Peace.

 

[seashale76]

Awesome, thanks!

So what's your opinion on church services (I've seen a Pentecostal and AoG service) where multiple people get up and just start babbling incoherently? Are these people faking to get attention, are they truly overcome by the Spirit, or are they possessed?

I was raised AoG- and imo- it's a spirit, but not a holy one. I wouldn't necessarily go so far as to say possessed though. I do feel that dabbling in the whole Pentecostal experience is no different than dabbling in the occult. There are many similarities between this type of ecstatic experience and what can be found in various other religions. It is an altered state of conciousness. It feels good, that's why people keep seeking after the experience. Been there, done that, and it was why I kept doing it for as long as I did. The first time, I couldn't stop and went on for hours. It was very odd to feel like I had no control over my own body.

The Orthodox do believe in speaking in tongues, but we don't recognize what you see in Pentecostal churches. Here is what we do recognize: One person speaks to another. Both speak different languages. The one being spoken to hears his/her own language. This gift of God is occasionally given to someone so that they can minister to and preach the good news to others who don't understand them.

Of what possible use is speaking in tongues when everyone can already speak to and understand each other?

Disclaimer: I'm not claiming to speak for Orthodox Christianity. I'm very biased against the belief system I was raised in (Pentecostal) and feel that it did me a lot of harm. It is a rather hot button issue for me.

 

[totalimmortal]

Great answer aiki. You should always go to the Bible first to see what it says instead of opinions and heresay Paul speaks a whole chapter almost on tongues In 1 Corinthians 14 which aiki quoted that pretty much explains clearly the answers to your questions.

 

[Bryanfromiowa]

You;ve got some good answers here. To summarize yes it is a gift of the spirit, yes it an actual language speaker and listener hear it in their own language. Read act 2 Acts 2 - Passage Lookup - Today's New International Version - BibleGateway.com .

If its not a real language and the person isn't speaking to someone then i don't believe its from god. I believe this debate has been going on since pauls time note this passage from 1 cor14.

6 Now, brothers and sisters, if I come to you and speak in tongues, what good will I be to you, unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or word of instruction? 7 Even in the case of lifeless things that make sounds, such as the pipe or harp, how will anyone know what tune is being played unless there is a distinction in the notes? 8 Again, if the trumpet does not sound a clear call, who will get ready for battle? 9 So it is with you. Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air. 10 Undoubtedly there are all sorts of languages in the world, yet none of them is without meaning. 11 If then I do not grasp the meaning of what someone is saying, I am a foreigner to the speaker, and the speaker is a foreigner to me. 12 So it is with you. Since you are eager for gifts of the Spirit, try to excel in those that build up the church.

In my limited experience with aog and penecostel churches it seems to me that some of them treat this as a status symbol and thus encourage a culture where where people fake it .

 

[Sketcher]

Is speaking in tongues a gift of the Holy Spirit?

Yes, though there are fake tongue-speakers out there who do not have the Holy Spirit's gift of tongues. These people are just faking it, have a mental disease, or a problem with demon possession.

Does the speaker know what they're saying?

I don't know, I don't have the gift. I would think so, though. There is a separate gift of interpretation of tongues, but that is primarily for the benefit of those around you. Anybody could make any series of noises and claim that he said anything, after all.

Does the "tongue" resemble an actual language?

It is a language, whether it is of men or angels. I have no idea what benefit speaking in an angelic language would be for us in this age. But the most Biblical use of tongues is described in Acts 2, where the Apostles who had the gift were proclaiming the Gospel in languages that they had no training in. I have also heard a story from the mission field of tongues being used in this way. I'm a lot more comfortable with that than breaking out in a language that nobody else around you can understand.

Who has the ability to translate what the speaker is saying?

Those with the gift of interpretation, or the native speakers of the language that the tongue-speaker is untrained in.

If nobody else understands the speaker, what is the Holy Spirit accomplishing?

Good question. Tongues are a sign to unbelievers (1 Corinthians 14:22). If nobody can understand what is being spoken, I personally don't see what kind of sign it would be to unbelievers. If the unbeliever can hear the Gospel in their own language which the speaker is untrained in though, that is one heck of a wondrous sign.

What is the Biblical basis for this phenomenon?

Acts 2, and 1 Corinthians 12-14. Unfortunately, I have yet to find a charismatic congregation that practices tongues according to what the Scriptures say about them. There are rules for speaking in tongues.

How can an onlooker tell the difference between someone who is genuinely speaking in tongues and someone who is just babbling incoherently?

Interpreter. This is why if no one has the gift of interpretation in the assembly, those with the gift of tongues should not use it in the assembly (1 Cor. 14:28).

How can an onlooker determine whether a person translating tongues is genuinely translating or making it up as they go?

Good question, but I would hope people would be able to tell. After all, it takes one slick individual to fake an interpretation of another language that he has no knowledge of and not look obvious. Most people would struggle with it if they were faking any type of interpretation.

 

[CoderHead]

All excellent answers, and I thank everyone for participating! This actually clears up a lot. Reps for you all.

 

[Van]

But if that's true, then do you dismiss all of the people who break out into (apparent) babble during church services as kooks?

Not to put too fine a point on it, but yes I consider them misled kooks. I am what is called a "cessionalist" (one who believes the gifts to perform signs and wonders to authenticate the gospel ceased with the end of the lives of the New Testament writers. So speaking in a foreign language without being taught ended according to this view near the end of the first century AD. But since this view is not taught with sufficient clarity, others who have looked at the matter say the Holy Spirit still gives these sign and wonder gifts such as speaking in tongues and healing and raising people from the dead.

 

[theVirginian]

When this subject comes up, one angle is rarely discussed. There are two levels of speaking in tongues.

One level is when Tongues is spoken in a congregation and an interpretation is given. The interpretation is given via the Holy Spirit, just as the Tongues are. Nobody has to know the language. The Tongues part is like the Holy Spirit saying, "Listen up! I have something to say." The Acts account was a different situation. The Upper Room participants were preaching to the crowd and there was no time to learn the different languages, so the Holy Spirit took over.

Another level is the gift of tongues as a form of personal prayer. It bypasses the mind and lets the Holy Spirit pray through us. It energizes the spirit. It is a strong weapon against demonic forces. The demonic counterfeit is a mantra used in eastern religions.

Tongues used in a congregational setting as group worship without an interpretation doesn't help anybody but the speaker. When Paul says that tongues is the least of the gifts, this is what he's talking about.

 

[CoderHead]

One level is when Tongues is spoken in a congregation and an interpretation is given. The interpretation is given via the Holy Spirit, just as the Tongues are. Nobody has to know the language. The Tongues part is like the Holy Spirit saying, "Listen up! I have something to say." The Acts account was a different situation. The Upper Room participants were preaching to the crowd and there was no time to learn the different languages, so the Holy Spirit took over.

This sort of makes sense to me as far as the implementation goes in the context of the "Upper Room." It still doesn't make sense to me when it occurs in a church in the U.S. with all English-speaking attendees. Even if there is an interpreter there, what good is it doing anybody? Everyone speaks English. Is it just supposed to be impressive?

Another level is the gift of tongues as a form of personal prayer. It bypasses the mind and lets the Holy Spirit pray through us. It energizes the spirit. It is a strong weapon against demonic forces. The demonic counterfeit is a mantra used in eastern religions.

This just took a turn for the weird. Speaking to your Heavenly Father in prayer is supposed to energize your spirit, period. There's nothing said about tongues in the context of personal prayer. I know of no doctrine related to speaking in tongues when you're alone. Again, what good does it do you if you have no clue what you're saying? You can rebuke demons in English, so what's the point?

Tongues used in a congregational setting as group worship without an interpretation doesn't help anybody but the speaker. When Paul says that tongues is the least of the gifts, this is what he's talking about.

OK. But I still fail to see how it even helps the speaker. If they're given the gift of tongues without the gift of interpretation, they may as well be foaming at the mouth, for all the good it does.

 

[Bryanfromiowa]

Even if there is an interpreter there, what good is it doing anybody? Everyone speaks English. Is it just supposed to be impressive?

its only benefiting the speaker and only then because they want attention and percieved elevated status among their congregation.

 

[theVirginian]

Even if there is an interpreter there, what good is it doing anybody? Everyone speaks English. Is it just supposed to be impressive?

The tongues part is a heads up to the congregation. It alerts them that the known language that follows is from the Holy Spirit.

This just took a turn for the weird.

I know. The gift of tongues is the most common manifestation of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and it is the easiest gift to practice since it doesn't necessarily have to involve ministering to somebody else the way the other gifts do. Tongues is the Swiss Army knife of the spiritual gifts. The learning curve only involves the various ways it can be used. It's also the hardest gift to explain to somebody who hasn't experienced it.

Speaking to your Heavenly Father in prayer is supposed to energize your spirit, period. There's nothing said about tongues in the context of personal prayer.

The Bible doesn't get into the nuts and bolts of the gifts of the Spirit like a manual, but there are snippets here and there that we can use to build an image of how they work. I Corinthians 14 contains some regarding speaking in tongues. Verse 4 says, "He that speaks in an unknown tongue edifies himself...". This one is sometimes misunderstood to say that the speaker is just tooting his own horn. What it is actually saying is that he strengthens his inner man/spirit. The reason I use this verse to back up my claim of personal prayer is that building something up takes time. With an average of thirty seconds of tongues spoken in the tongues/interpretation, it isn't enough time to do anybody any good. Time spent in the prayer closet praying in tongues is much more productive.

I know of no doctrine related to speaking in tongues when you're alone. Again, what good does it do you if you have no clue what you're saying?

"For he that speaks in an unknown tongue speaks not unto men, but unto God: for no man understands him; howbeit in the spirit he speaks mysteries." I Corinthians 14:2. Praying in tongues bypasses the mind and is talking to God spirit to Spirit.

You can rebuke demons in English, so what's the point?

I have occasionally sensed that my praying in tongues was rubbing a devil raw that I was dealing with. That's point enough for me.

But I still fail to see how it even helps the speaker. If they're given the gift of tongues without the gift of interpretation, they may as well be foaming at the mouth, for all the good it does.

My grandmother moved into my parents' home in the '70s to live out her days. One day I heard her moanning in pain in her bedroom. I went in and asked if I could pray for her healing and she agreed. I put one hand on top of her head and asked God to heal her. Nothing happened. I thought, "OK. Let's try a different approach." I started praying in tongues aloud. About fifteen seconds later, she started weeping, grabbed my hand and pulled it tighter to her head as though something was being transfered from me to her and she wanted as good of a connection as possible. A couple of minutes later she relaxed her hold on my hand and her healing was complete. I have no idea what I was praying and don't really care as long as it worked. I also don't know what was being transferred from me to her. I meant to ask later and never got around to it.

 

[CoderHead]

I thought, "OK. Let's try a different approach." I started praying in tongues aloud.

You can turn it on and off at will?

 

[CoderHead]

OK, now I'm back to square one. For a while there, I thought it was becoming clear, and even the scripture being quoted made some sort of sense. But now it's just confusing!

 

[CoderHead]

Clear as mud.