speaking in tongues

[ralph21ph]

does “Speaking in tongues” is of the devil?

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

Does 'speaking in tongues' is of the devil?

Can you rephrase?

Anyway, if you mean 'Is 'speaking in tongues' of the devil?':

My answer is no. Babbling in tongues and xenoglossia is not of the devil. It's silly and in no way reflects the biblical New Testament practice, but I'd never call it of the devil.

 

[Mathetes the kerux]

does “Speaking in tongues” is of the devil?

Not at all.

 

[Mathetes the kerux]

Does 'speaking in tongues' is of the devil?

Can you rephrase?

Anyway, if you mean 'Is 'speaking in tongues' of the devil?':

My answer is no. Babbling in tongues and xenoglossia is not of the devil. It's silly and in no way reflects the biblical New Testament practice, but I'd never call it of the devil.

Really? Then what IS the BIBLICAL practice of tongues? This should be interesting brother.

 

[Simonline]

does “Speaking in tongues” is of the devil?

No, authentic 'speaking in tongues' is Godly, but it can be counterfeited by the Evil One. It can also be mimicked by human flesh.

The best way of checking (if you don't have the ability to discern between spirits) is to observe what accompanies the speaking in tongues whether the one speaking in tongues is known to be Godly in lifestyle, whether any accompanying prophecies or pronouncements come true or, more importantly, are consistent with the Scriptures (Isa.8:20).

Whilst it is true that Charismatics who are not rooted in the Word are the easiest Christians to deceive it is also true that anti-Charismatics can be mislead as well.

The right way is the combination of Word and Spirit together. See Word And Spirit Together by David Pawson, available online from www.anchor-recordings.com (UK) or www.Goodseed.org (USA) or from your local Christian bookstore or public lending library.

Simonline

 

[sandman]

Here’s my biblical stance on tongues……

I don’t consider myself a Charismatic holy roller jumping for Jesus kind of person, just a believer, but your welcome to throw any label on me you wish.
I have been speaking in tongues for many years …… 33 to be exact. Throughout that time I’ve had much opportunity to work the Word in this area due to the opposition I have run into with other Christians concerning the operation of speaking in tongues; what it is, what it isn’t, and who can operate speaking in tongues.
The denial and cynicism hurled from the Christian skeptics on this subject are for the most part not without warrant due largely in part to what is being taught from those whom we have trusted to teach. I am talking about the ministers the teachers the theologians and the biblical scholars.
There is also what I might call the fringe, possibly what you reference as the charismatic who promote things like snake handling with tongues, falling down and doing the “dust mop wiggle” ….. a reaction assigned to being “slain in the spirit” (I personally think that is a cheesy way for the minister to clean his floor.) You also have the “home runners” who run around the bases of the church hands in the air speaking in tongues as if it were a baseball diamond …….truly a sight to see …..How about those who blurt out uncontrollably with tongues throughout the service ….”lady your scaring my kids …and me too!!”
There are plenty more examples I could cite but you catch my drift, these are truly absurd, off the wall, off the Word actions, usually intertwined with speaking in tongues and slain in the spirit ……Nothing in the Word backs up these hideous action, in fact Gods Word dictates just the opposite What I read in the Bible is that “all things are to be done decently and in order”.
What is decent and in order about someone blurting out uncontrollably, or running around the church screaming during service, or falling down in the aisles rolling around speaking in tongues. The speaking in tongues could be genuine, but the slain in the spirit is either being faked, or it is coming from a source other then The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Anytime our freedom of will is infringed upon or overstepped it is from a different source other than the true God, and that is the majority of what I see with the “slain in the spirit;” as the name would indicate
There is no connection in the Word of God relating tongues with being slain in the spirit. In fact the whole slain in the spirit is a counterfeit. I don’t care what people experience, if it is not in the Word, if it contradicts the truth, it’s off…… I am not saying that God can’t do special things for people at certain times, but God will never do anything that contradicts his Word for “He has magnified his Word above all his name” Psalms 138:2. If He did contradict his Word, we have nothing left.
These same people that claim to be slain in the spirit, that claim to involuntary speak in tongues because God is controlling them, are the same ones that boast of “freedom of will” ….so which is it? If God has given us freedom of will, which the Word does dictate, then how can God overstep that freedom of will to control you or slay you ….the answer is simple, the Word is true. God does not control or overstep our freedom of will.
The Word of God has got to be our only criteria for truth, not what an individual feels or experiences. Now if those feelings or experiences line up with the truth……..great! go with it, but where………. within the book of Acts {which records the rise and expansion of the Christian Church} do you see anything relatively close to the display of “slain in the spirit”. the answer is nowhere! The perfect opportunity for God to display someone being slain in the spirit would have been the original outpouring of the holy spirit on the day of Pentecost. Possibly having the 12 apostles being blown around in the temple like tumbleweeds in a wind storm would have set a precedent, but it doesn’t say that. The record states, it was the ninth hour, the hour of prayer, they were sitting decently and in order.
A few scriptures to consider

I Cor 14:26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.

I Cor 14:33 For God is not [the author] of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

I Cor 14:40 Let all things be done decently and in order.

I Corinthians 14:32And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. Not the other way around.

Ok so much for my rant……………..
In answer to the original question is tongues of/from the devil …No….not if the Word is accurate, and I believe it is. In spite of my rant there are several great benefits to speaking in tongues, benefits that are specifically designed for the individual believer; which is what tongues is primarily designed for.
Make no mistake; I am not talking about jumping up and down, swinging from the chandeliers, singing glory halleluiah! I am talking about speaking in tongues, accurately according to the Bible, decently and in order, as God designed this to be done.
One other thing: Speaking in tongues can be operated by anyone who is born again of Gods spirit. Not all will, not all desire to, it’s not a prerequisite for salvation but it is available to all those born again. Those who desire not to are missing out on some great benefits that God set up, but it’s an individuals choice.

 

[hosea6v6]

does “Speaking in tongues” is of the devil?

In stead of tossing a match at a gas tank, can you tell me what Is tongues. This is a subject that many claim is true to day, but they can not back it up with Gods word. They just FEEL that it is true and that is all they need to believe.

Hosea6v6

 

[sandman]

To explain what tongues is, is like asking to give an explanation of the English language……. The English language is a means of communication to others that understand the language; who we are, what we are, what we like, what we do, where we’re going, that we think, how we feel, our intentions, our admirations, our aspiration, etc. etc.

Tongues is communication ….not to others, but to God that is how God set it up. I can explain tongues to the extent of the information furnished in the Word of God.
As a precursor to that information let me share a little about my experience with tongues.
When I first spoke in tongues I had never even heard of the term never heard the language spoken before ….didn’t know what it was. I was reading a book called Power in Praise by Merlin Carothers; somewhere within the book it talked about tongues a language of angels ….. bla bla bla I can’t remember exactly …. but it said that anyone who was born again could do it ……just thank God…. open your mouth and do it ….so I did ….wow!! it was the greatest high I had ever had, and believe me I have had some great highs. Now that was my experience, not all experiences are the same, and not all experiences are a guarantee for truth ……..it has to line up with the Word of God; and speaking in tongues does. Since that time {1974} I have had much opportunity to research the Word and study this subject …..by no means am I an expert but I can tell you what the Word says about the subject, what the benefits are, who can speak in tongues, and why we should and how to do it.

As I stated in my OP anyone who is born again has the latent ability to speak in tongues …..the reason we should will be evident in the benefits listed below. For those who are interested in the how I would be happy to post very simple instructions or feel free to PM me. I have guided many hundreds of people into the how of speaking in tongues and have never had anyone not manifest ….you see, it’s simple, God made it that way for people like me.
Before I list the benefits of tongues I would like to cover one area that has caused much confusion in the church today ………gift
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ .
I would first like to address the use of the word gift because thiscontributes to the school of thought that it is not our choice ….. but Gods choice who will speak in tongues or operate any of the other 8 manifestations. Now in a sense it is Gods choice who speaks in tongues but not in the way most of us have been taught; the who is restricted to those born again of Gods spirit.
God makes his will perfectly clear when we read what is written ……but confusion has come about due to words that have been added.
Many times throughout the Bible translators have added words to help enhance the meaning of scripture. For the most part the KJV has these words in italics; sometimes they are well supplied, sometimes not. In chapters 12, 13, &14 of I Corinthians the word gifts has been added four times 12:1, as well as 13:2, 14:1 & 12. These should be deleted, as they are not in the original text.
Now a fair question to ask is: why is the word gift not well supplied in these verses? Because verse 7 of Chapter 12 changes from what was being talked about, which were gifts,……….. to something else.
Verse 4 of I Corinthians 12 speaks of the diversities of gifts of which there are 7 in number given to the Church of the Body of Christ {“5 gift ministries” listed in Ephesians} {“holy spirit” the gift given at new birth} and {“gifts of healing” because every healing is a gift, yet it is still an operation or manifestation of the spirit }. Then in verse 6 it states that God is the one who energizes {worketh} each operation.
In verse 7 it changes form gifts to manifestation.
Verse 7 “But the manifestation of the spirit is given to every man to profit withal”The word but sets in contrast that which precedes it … verses 4-6 was dealing with gifts but now it’s changed from gifts to manifestations; so what’s the difference between gift and manifestation. A gift is individually given and you do not have it unless someone gives it to you, a manifestation is an evidence, a showing forth of something you already have.
For example: If someone gives you a cell phone, that is a gift. You make calls, do text messaging, take pictures; that is the manifestation or operation of the phone. If someone gave you a phone but you didn’t know how to use it, you would still have the phone (the gift) with all the features, but if you didn’t know how to use it …very simply, you couldn’t manifest or operate the phone. Although it is tough to compare a cell phone to holy spirit, (as I can’t think of one time I have had a dropped call from holy spirit) but you can draw several similarities allegorically.
The word manifestation in the Greek is phanerôsis meaning “to be visible,” “bring to light,” “or open to sight” “to show forth in the sense world”. What is it that we are to bring to light? Verse 7 says the spirit, ……… verse 7 further goes on to say that it is given to every man {all inclusive} every person {who is born again of God}
If we call these a gift we do two things first we are changing the Word of God by adding words that do not belongand secondly we are putting ourselves in the position of waiting for God to give us one or more of the so-called gifts listed in verses 8-10. It stimulates believers to hope, desire, pray and beg for something, and then to question their righteousness, their walk, their goodness, and their worthiness, as to why they do not receive it. I have even seen at times the prompting of fake tongues amongst well meaning groups because individuals so yearn and desire to manifest. Why is this …because calling it a gift makes God a respecter of persons as to whom He gives these quote un quote gifts to; and we know that God is no respecter of persons, as the Bible states in Acts 10:34, Ephesians 6:9, Colossians 3:25. …..God is a respecter of conditions, the condition being “believing” …… believing what is available.
For God to give you two {quote un quote} “gifts” and only give me one …would make him a respecter of persons, that is why the word gifts does not fit into these verses as much as people want to squeeze it in. By squeezing the word gifts in this verse it takes the accountability off of the believer (where it should be) and puts it on God; …..as in “well God has not seen fit to give me the gift of tongues, prophecy, word of knowledge,” etc.
But God has seen you fit, God did his part when he put His seed {holy spirit, the gift} in you; it is up to you, not God, to make the next move; your next move is to believe, and believing is a verb which connotes action. We have the gift of holy spirit within us and now God is telling his kids, to manifest that spirit as follows in verses 8-10.
I will not into go into verses 8-10 which list the 9 manifestations of the spirit at this time but I do want to cover verse 11 as this also leads to controversy regarding this subject.
I Cor. 12:11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
Some say the words “severely as he will” are referring to as God wills. If that were the case then God just contradicted Himself from verse 7 where He stated “is given to every man” Furthermore the word severely is the Greek word idia from idios meaning “ones own” Of the 114 times the word idios is used in the Bible, this is the only place it is translated severely. Usually translated “one’s own” “his own” “your own”. In II Peter 1:20 the word idios is translated “privately”, and if it’s private it is pretty much ones own. By using the correct rendering of this word idios verse 11 would read “dividing (distributing) to every man his own, as he (the man) will”
There is much more to these verses, but I just want tostress the point that these are not gifts, but a manifestation of the gift of holy spirit. The reason I stress this point is once people understand it is not a gift, but the manifestation of the gift already latent within you, they are made free from that which once stopped them from speaking in tongues, which was waiting for God to give them the gift. You have it; you can speak in tongues and/or operate any of the other 8 manifestations of the spirit.


Tongues Benefits
Although I have listed 8 there are others that I have not listed as they would require more explanation.


1. To speak the wonderful works of God

Acts 2:11
Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

2. To magnify God

Acts10:46
For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God.

3. To give thanks well

I Corinthians 14:17
For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified

4. To bring a message from God {when interpreted} I Corinthians 14:5, 27, 28;
5:… except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

27: If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
28: if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.




5. Sign to the unbelievers I Corinthians 14:22, Mark 16:17;

I Corinthians:
Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

Mark:
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

6. To edify you, build you up. I Corinthians 14:4, Jude 20;

I Corinthians:
He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.


Jude:
But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost

7. To speak to God mysteries {divine secrets}

I Corinthians 14:2
For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.



8. Makes intercession for us

Romans 8:26&7
26: Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27: And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God

Ephesians 6:18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

The primary purpose of tongues is designed for the individual believer in his/her private prayer life two of the 9 manifestations are set up that way by God but because this post is already a mile long I will not go into that at this time.

 

[jesusfreak4888]

I find it very interesting, how tongues really hasn't been an issue until that last 150 years or so? Did that mean that it wasn't around or for our time? No, how did people start to get back into it? A few people from a methodist church decided to get together, because they knew that what they were getting wasn't all God had to give, they knew there must be more, they had an eagerness to draw closer to him. And suddenly almost like the day of entecost, the gifts of the spirit came down, and as people started passionately following after God it came to more and more People, I consider myself to speak in tongues, Yes I know that people sometimes force it, but I havn't it comes when you are in a state of just being lost in Christ, when you are in his arms, or intimately praying, could I just start speaking now. NO

 

[jesusfreak4888]

sorry my computer restarted on its own, as I was saying...I believe that many times on TV the holy spirit is blasphemed, and the bible says that we should never blaspheme the holy spirit, People can say it may not be right, but saying that it's of the devil, or those people are just getting attention, what if they truly aren't. God probably wouldn't like it
GOD BLESS!!!

 

[KenBrauckmann]

Thanks to both and would love to see more posts on this.. I have spoken in 'an unknown tongue' for over 20 years and it is hard to explain to my girlfriend what it is and isn't. (Explain how you speak your native tongue to someone else?)

hope this 'bump' restarts the thread...

Ken

 

[zspeedyrabit]

Babblings are indirect communications.

 

[zspeedyrabit]

KenBrauckmann, Could you explain the unknown tongues that you have spoken in for 20 years? You state that you speak in tongues, are the tongues that you speak in the spoken word form?

 

[KenBrauckmann]

The 'tongues' I refer to ('Glossalia') are spoken. While many will debate whether these are 'for today' or 'ceased with the Apostles' and also whether they are Human or Angelic languages, there is not debate on the terms used as to the source, i.e., spoken. (Written language would be based on the roots GRAPH or GRAM, not GLOSSA which specifically refers to the tongue.)

when I am 'speaking in tongues' it is not a Known Human Language rather I understand it to fall under Paul's term of 'an unknown tongue' - spoken to God and not for the (direct) benefit of Humans. A 'prayer language', as I have never had interpretations of what I have said - God seems to have given me other gifts than (public) Tongues and Interpretaion of Tongues.

I hope this clarifies, if not, let me know...?

Ken

 

[MoNiCa4316]

I believe that speaking in tongues is from the Holy Spirit...maybe not always, that is why we have to discern the spirits and judge everything by its fruits...but if the 'fruits' are good, then it's most likely from Him
I speak in tongues sometimes and I can't make myself do it, it only happens when I'm deep in prayer or praising God..it's an awesome experience and it has helped me

God bless!

monica

 

[BigNorsk]

We see in the bible a reference to a supernatural speaking of language that could be understood even by people who weren't Christian. This appears to be one type of tongue. We hear occassional reports of such with missionaries but it doesn't seem to be a very common thing.

There is also what is commonly referred to as tongues today. Some claim that it is the private prayer language that Paul speaks of. If it is, it is the least of the gifts. Certainly not given to all. But there is evidence that this is not what is happening either. For instance scripture teaches us that Christians are clearly in control of such tongues and that worship is to be done in order, with only one speaking at a time, and then only if there is an interpreter. If not, scirpture commands them to be silent during the service.

This does not seem consistent with the people who claim they must speak and cannot really control themselves, nor with the practice of encouraging many to speak at once. If it is a spirit, then such is certainly not of the holy spirit, but I do not believe it is a spirit at all.

Instead we see in many religions, not just Christianity, the same exact phenomenon. Some Hindus have been doing it for a long time. It is tied into the phenomenon known as excstatic utterances. It involves an area of the brain that is not the speach center, which would be used if it were an actual language. Instead it is language like or a paralanguage, not containing the elements of a language. It also tends to be accompanied by body twitching or dancing, and the manifestation of sounds isn't limited to speach, it can also be laughing, barking or making other sounds. This seems to be at least somewhat controlled by what the person would find acceptable, but is not directly controlled by the person.

So we end up with neither the Holy Spirit nor with demons, but a phenomenon somewhat akin to putting oneself into a trance. It seems to be a part of the human brain. It is quite pleasurable for most people but really isn't worshipping God. The greatest danger lies into the thought process that since that was God directly speaking that really the people are prophesying and has lead to the wave of current self proclaimed prophets and apostles that are leading people astray. The so called tongues phenomenon served almost like an entry level drug to cause the bible to be discarded as the sole source and norm of Christian doctrine by many.

Search for "ecstatic utterances" and you can read about them in a variety of religions.

Marv

 

[Mathetes the kerux]

We see in the bible a reference to a supernatural speaking of language that could be understood even by people who weren't Christian. This appears to be one type of tongue. We hear occassional reports of such with missionaries but it doesn't seem to be a very common thing.

There is also what is commonly referred to as tongues today. Some claim that it is the private prayer language that Paul speaks of. If it is, it is the least of the gifts. Certainly not given to all. But there is evidence that this is not what is happening either. For instance scripture teaches us that Christians are clearly in control of such tongues and that worship is to be done in order, with only one speaking at a time, and then only if there is an interpreter. If not, scirpture commands them to be silent during the service.

This does not seem consistent with the people who claim they must speak and cannot really control themselves, nor with the practice of encouraging many to speak at once. If it is a spirit, then such is certainly not of the holy spirit, but I do not believe it is a spirit at all.

Instead we see in many religions, not just Christianity, the same exact phenomenon. Some Hindus have been doing it for a long time. It is tied into the phenomenon known as excstatic utterances. It involves an area of the brain that is not the speach center, which would be used if it were an actual language. Instead it is language like or a paralanguage, not containing the elements of a language. It also tends to be accompanied by body twitching or dancing, and the manifestation of sounds isn't limited to speach, it can also be laughing, barking or making other sounds. This seems to be at least somewhat controlled by what the person would find acceptable, but is not directly controlled by the person.

So we end up with neither the Holy Spirit nor with demons, but a phenomenon somewhat akin to putting oneself into a trance. It seems to be a part of the human brain. It is quite pleasurable for most people but really isn't worshipping God. The greatest danger lies into the thought process that since that was God directly speaking that really the people are prophesying and has lead to the wave of current self proclaimed prophets and apostles that are leading people astray. The so called tongues phenomenon served almost like an entry level drug to cause the bible to be discarded as the sole source and norm of Christian doctrine by many.

Search for "ecstatic utterances" and you can read about them in a variety of religions.

Marv

Hey Marv . . . tongues in Scripture ARE ecstatic.

And, as you well know, to use abuse to denounce the credibility of a thing is hermeneutical error . . . otherwise Paul would have just struck down the use of tongues period. There is control in the *charismatic* tongue . . . there are times when the urge seems overwhelming . . . but that is when an interpretation needs to be given and in the assembled worship gathering.

By your standard NONE of the tongues occurences in Acts would be valid . . . because NONE of them had interpreters *per se.* So be careful.

As for the tongues in other religions . . . well . . . there is also EVERY manifestation of the other *gifts* of the Spirit in these other religions too (ie prophecy, healing, miracles, demonic expulsion, knowledge et al) . . . that really proves nothing save for a common religious experience . . . of which ONE is from truth . . . the others being REAL but not of the truth. Satan counterfiets everything, as you well know, so this isn't a surprise.

Besides, contextually, ALL of the accounts are in scripture are ecstatic speech also.

 

[BigNorsk]

Hey Marv . . . tongues in Scripture ARE ecstatic.

And, as you well know, to use abuse to denounce the credibility of a thing is hermeneutical error . . . otherwise Paul would have just struck down the use of tongues period. There is control in the *charismatic* tongue . . . there are times when the urge seems overwhelming . . . but that is when an interpretation needs to be given and in the assembled worship gathering.

By your standard NONE of the tongues occurences in Acts would be valid . . . because NONE of them had interpreters *per se.* So be careful.

As for the tongues in other religions . . . well . . . there is also EVERY manifestation of the other *gifts* of the Spirit in these other religions too (ie prophecy, healing, miracles, demonic expulsion, knowledge et al) . . . that really proves nothing save for a common religious experience . . . of which ONE is from truth . . . the others being REAL but not of the truth. Satan counterfiets everything, as you well know, so this isn't a surprise.

Besides, contextually, ALL of the accounts are in scripture are ecstatic speech also.

It's not my standard, it's what the bible commands to do.

And I did not denounce the credibility of the gift of tongues.

And the scriptural references specifically do not fit the phenomenon known as ecstatic utterances or maybe better vice versa.

Marv

 

[Mathetes the kerux]

It's not my standard, it's what the bible commands to do.

And I did not denounce the credibility of the gift of tongues.

And the scriptural references specifically do not fit the phenomenon known as ecstatic utterances or maybe better vice versa.

Marv

I agree with the standard . . . but context determines meaning (as you know).

The common "ecstatic" tongue DOES fit the scriptural revelation . . .

would you care to go through the passages?

 

[MoNiCa4316]

But there is evidence that this is not what is happening either. For instance scripture teaches us that Christians are clearly in control of such tongues and that worship is to be done in order, with only one speaking at a time, and then only if there is an interpreter. If not, scirpture commands them to be silent during the service.

This does not seem consistent with the people who claim they must speak and cannot really control themselves, nor with the practice of encouraging many to speak at once. If it is a spirit, then such is certainly not of the holy spirit, but I do not believe it is a spirit at all.

When I speak in tongues, I'm still in control and fully conscious, and can stop if I want to. I agree that it shouldn't be like a "trance" or something.