Speaking in Tongues

[capnator]

I have heard preachers many times in various SDA churches say that the gift of tongues is the spirit allowing us to witness/communicate to others who couldnt otherwise understand us, and that this is the only way it is used... I really struggle to see that in the bible and would even have to say that this position seems to be wrong.


1 cor 14:1 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual [gifts], but rather that ye may prophesy. 2 For he that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth [him]; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. 3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men [to] edification, and exhortation, and comfort. 4 He that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church. 5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater [is] he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying. .... 9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air. 10 There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them [is] without signification. 11 Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh [shall be] a barbarian unto me.

It seems that speaking in tongues is evidence that the spirit is giving the person words to speak, and if these words are only for the purpose of talking to people who would understand them why on earth do you need interpreters??

1Cr 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become [as] sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

Tongues of Angels is definately not going to be understood by anyone on earth. It does seem that the bible points out tongues as evidence of the spirit can be uplifting to the person speaking, can be a sign to unbelievers, and when interpreted and understood is a message from God.

I do believe that this is most definately counterfeited by satan in some instances.

 

[Sophia7]

I agree. Even at Pentecost, the apostles were not actually speaking in all of the other languages represented by the crowd, but the Holy Spirit interceded to interpret so that everyone would be able to understand in his own language. Also, notice in Acts 2 that when the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they began to speak in tongues, there was not even an audience yet. The crowd came because they heard the sound and wanted to see what was going on. It was then that they were able to supernaturally understand what was being said. When Peter got up to speak, it was to explain what was happening and to make sure that they understood that it was the work of the Holy Spirit.

There is definitely a counterfeit gift. I've been to churches where people were speaking in tongues in a disorganized fashion, without an interpreter, which is forbidden by the Bible. However, if there is a counterfeit gift, there must be a true gift, and I think that Adventists have sometimes misunderstood what the biblical gfit of tongues was meant to be.

 

[Cliff2]

I have heard preachers many times in various SDA churches say that the gift of tongues is the spirit allowing us to witness/communicate to others who couldnt otherwise understand us, and that this is the only way it is used... I really struggle to see that in the bible and would even have to say that this position seems to be wrong.


1 cor 14:1 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual [gifts], but rather that ye may prophesy. 2 For he that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth [him]; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. 3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men [to] edification, and exhortation, and comfort. 4 He that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church. 5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater [is] he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying. .... 9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air. 10 There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them [is] without signification. 11 Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh [shall be] a barbarian unto me.

It seems that speaking in tongues is evidence that the spirit is giving the person words to speak, and if these words are only for the purpose of talking to people who would understand them why on earth do you need interpreters??

1Cr 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become [as] sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

Tongues of Angels is definately not going to be understood by anyone on earth. It does seem that the bible points out tongues as evidence of the spirit can be uplifting to the person speaking, can be a sign to unbelievers, and when interpreted and understood is a message from God.

I do believe that this is most definately counterfeited by satan in some instances.

Difficult question, do not have all the answers, in fact do not have many.

To me it seems that from the Bible there is always order in the way God does things.

When the Bible tells us that we should not speak unless there is someone to interpret then that is what should be done.

There are two basic understandings of tongues within the SDA Church. Both are genuine, one is that a person speaks and another interprets what is said. Straight forward with no major problems.

Second view and also correct is that a person speaks and those who hear can understand what is said even though it is not their language that is spoken.

When the meeting is over they cannot continue to understand what is being said by the speaker.

At least that is what has happeend in case where I have been told that the gift of tongues has been witnessed.

 

[drgibson]

That scripture is in the contest of what if? If I was able to...

In my former life I experienced "Speaking in Tongues" in a Pentecostal church. It isn't from God. I have experienced the true filling of the Holy Spirit and there is a difference.

 

[OntheDL]

I agree. Even at Pentecost, the apostles were not actually speaking in all of the other languages represented by the crowd, but the Holy Spirit interceded to interpret so that everyone would be able to understand in his own language. Also, notice in Acts 2 that when the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they began to speak in tongues, there was not even an audience yet. The crowd came because they heard the sound and wanted to see what was going on. It was then that they were able to supernaturally understand what was being said. When Peter got up to speak, it was to explain what was happening and to make sure that they understood that it was the work of the Holy Spirit.

There is definitely a counterfeit gift. I've been to churches where people were speaking in tongues in a disorganized fashion, without an interpreter, which is forbidden by the Bible. However, if there is a counterfeit gift, there must be a true gift, and I think that Adventists have sometimes misunderstood what the biblical gfit of tongues was meant to be.

Acts 2
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, 11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our
tongues the wonderful works of God.

How did you get that conclusion from reading Acts 2?

 

[OntheDL]

1 Cor 14
18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.

It's quite clear to me what the biblical use of tongue is. It's used for evangelism for understanding. If used inside the church, an interpreter is needed. Apparently the holy spirit wasn't the interpreter Paul was talking about.

People babeling in the church is a scene right out of Catholic charismatic movement.

 

[Sophia7]

Acts 2
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, 11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our
tongues the wonderful works of God.

How did you get that conclusion from reading Acts 2?

Look at the chronology in the text. They were speaking in tongues before the crowd showed up. And the Bible says that the people heard them speaking in their own languages, not that they actually were speaking in all of those languages. There were no human interpreters; that was the work of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Sophia7]

1 Cor 14
18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.

It's quite clear to me what the biblical use of tongue is. It's used for evangelism for understanding. If used inside the church, an interpreter is needed. Apparently the holy spirit wasn't the interpreter Paul was talking about.

People babeling in the church is a scene right out of Catholic charismatic movement.

According to the rest of 1 Corinthians 14, tongues are not meant for evangelism but are to be used between a person and God. They are also a sign. They are not for the purpose of editfying the church, as other gifts are. Here are a couple of key portions:

1 CO 14:1 Follow the way of love and eagerly desire spiritual gifts, especially the gift of prophecy. 2 For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit. 3 But everyone who prophesies speaks to men for their strengthening, encouragement and comfort. 4 He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. 5 I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, but I would rather have you prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may be edified.

1 CO 14:22 Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers; prophecy, however, is for believers, not for unbelievers. 23 So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and some who do not understand or some unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind? 24 But if an unbeliever or someone who does not understand comes in while everybody is prophesying, he will be convinced by all that he is a sinner and will be judged by all, 25 and the secrets of his heart will be laid bare. So he will fall down and worship God, exclaiming, "God is really among you!"

There is no question that many churches have unbiblical practices regarding speaking in tongues. However, there can't be a counterfeit without a true gift.

 

[OntheDL]

According to the rest of 1 Corinthians 14, tongues are not meant for evangelism but are to be used between a person and God. They are also a sign. They are not for the purpose of editfying the church, as other gifts are. Here are a couple of key portions:

1 CO 14:1 Follow the way of love and eagerly desire spiritual gifts, especially the gift of prophecy. 2 For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit. 3 But everyone who prophesies speaks to men for their strengthening, encouragement and comfort. 4 He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. 5 I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, but I would rather have you prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may be edified.

1 CO 14:22 Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers; prophecy, however, is for believers, not for unbelievers. 23 So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and some who do not understand or some unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind? 24 But if an unbeliever or someone who does not understand comes in while everybody is prophesying, he will be convinced by all that he is a sinner and will be judged by all, 25 and the secrets of his heart will be laid bare. So he will fall down and worship God, exclaiming, "God is really among you!"

There is no question that many churches have unbiblical practices regarding speaking in tongues. However, there can't be a counterfeit without a true gift.

I'm sorry. What you quoted contradicts your interpretation.

 

[Sophia7]

I'm sorry. What you quoted contradicts your interpretation.

No, it contradicts your interpretation.

 

[OntheDL]

God never has and never will give His spiritual gifts to unbelievers (who aren't living according to God's way). His spiritual gifts are given to the faithful men and women for His testimony to the unbelievers.

 

[Sophia7]

God never has and never will give His spiritual gifts to unbelievers (who aren't living according to God's way). His spiritual gifts are given to the faithful men and women for His testimony to the unbelievers.

When did I ever say that God gives spiritual gifts to unbelievers? The Bible says that tongues are a sign for unbelievers, not that unbelievers speak in tongues. Please read what I actually said and not what you think I said.

 

[OntheDL]

When did I ever say that God gives spiritual gifts to unbelievers? The Bible says that tongues are a sign for unbelievers, not that unbelievers speak in tongues. Please read what I actually said and not what you think I said.

You said the diciples weren't actually speaking in all other languages. But the holy spirit interceded to interprete for the crowd (unbelievers) so they could understand what was being said.

I agree. Even at Pentecost, the apostles were not actually speaking in all of the other languages represented by the crowd, but the Holy Spirit interceded to interpret so that everyone would be able to understand in his own language. Also, notice in Acts 2 that when the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they began to speak in tongues, there was not even an audience yet. The crowd came because they heard the sound and wanted to see what was going on. It was then that they were able to supernaturally understand what was being said.

 

[Sophia7]

You said the diciples weren't actually speaking in all other languages. But the holy spirit interceded to interprete for the crowd (unbelievers) so they could understand what was being said.

Sorry, if you're wondering why your post says that I edited it, I accidentally hit the "edit" button instead of the "quote" button. For some reason, the buttons were not displaying properly. Hopefully I got it restored back to how you had it.

Anyway, the disciples were believers. They were the ones speaking in tongues. It was a sign to the unbelievers although they didn't understand it at first and thought that the disciples were drunk, just as 1 Cor. 14 says that unbelievers will think that people are out of their minds if they speak in tongues. Why would anyone think that people were drunk or out of their minds if they were simply speaking other languages so that everyone could understand them? In any case, God didn't give spiritual gifts to the audience before they became believers.

 

[OntheDL]

Why would anyone think that people were drunk or out of their minds if they were simply speaking other languages so that everyone could understand them? In any case, God didn't give spiritual gifts to the audience before they became believers.

Because they were galilaeans. How could they speak in other people's tongues? That was a sign for the crowd (unbelievers) and it gave understanding (opposite of confusion the different tongues bring).

Verses 8-11 of Acts 2 states that's why they were amazed that these Galilaeans were talking in each known tongues of the people(unbelievers) from all these different places.

In 1 Cor 14, Paul was talking about a different circumstance: the tongues for inside the church (among the believers). That was what Paul was cautioning about the use of it.

 

[capnator]

Sorry in Act 2 I'd have to say they were speaking in tongues before the crowd turned up

Acts 2:2-4 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.


To me this sounds like they were in the house praying or whatever then you have the rushing wind and tongues of fire and speaking in tongues.... not talking to anyone who needs evangelising in another language.

And I think the point paul is trying to make in corinthians is that having people speaking in tongues in church is not profitable if no-one can understand what is being said.

1 Cor 14:18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all 19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that [by my voice] I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an [unknown] tongue.

He's obviously making a point that for him to stand there and speak in the spirit in an unkown tongue is not going to profit the church as much as a message that they can understand. An unkown tongue is useless for evangelising.

I think the Evangelism only position is just a distancing from pentecostalism, which I have no doubt in my mind that in some cases(can't say all because that would be a harsh generalisation) the spirit giving utterance to their tongues is not the holy spirit.

 

[tall73]

He's obviously making a point that for him to stand there and speak in the spirit in an unkown tongue is not going to profit the church as much as a message that they can understand. An unkown tongue is useless for evangelising.

I think the Evangelism only position is just a distancing from pentecostalism, which I have no doubt in my mind that in some cases(can't say all because that would be a harsh generalisation) the spirit giving utterance to their tongues is not the holy spirit.

Right on.

Satan doesn't counterfeit something when there is no reality. I Corinthians 14 makes it plain in numerous ways that this was a language that not everyone understood.



These appear to be two different manifestations of the work of the Spirit. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[Sophia7]

Sorry in Act 2 I'd have to say they were speaking in tongues before the crowd turned up

Acts 2:2-4 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.


To me this sounds like they were in the house praying or whatever then you have the rushing wind and tongues of fire and speaking in tongues.... not talking to anyone who needs evangelising in another language.

And I think the point paul is trying to make in corinthians is that having people speaking in tongues in church is not profitable if no-one can understand what is being said.

1 Cor 14:18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all 19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that [by my voice] I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an [unknown] tongue.

He's obviously making a point that for him to stand there and speak in the spirit in an unkown tongue is not going to profit the church as much as a message that they can understand. An unkown tongue is useless for evangelising.

I think the Evangelism only position is just a distancing from pentecostalism, which I have no doubt in my mind that in some cases(can't say all because that would be a harsh generalisation) the spirit giving utterance to their tongues is not the holy spirit.

I agree.

 

[JJ2003]

Lets be clear.

Tongues are just a sign, miracle and wonder. Tongues are biblical. But Satan can do almost anything.

The key is that we can't judge each other as Jesus says love and save the sinners.

So instead we need to test each spirit for biblical principals.

If it is something not understanding then ignore it. I would be more concerned if you focus on other wonders and DONT TEST THEM.

SDA's can help me with the Biblical test verses for this.

Isaiah 8.20 warns that if people don't keep the law and the testimony of jesus then there is no light in them.

Proverbs clearly outlines people who are wicked vs good.

Rather than worrying about tongues I would be focused more on the other tests and get to know them very well.

In end times it will not be only tongues that are a problem.

Miracle healing, signs and wonders - bringing fire down - are all things Satan is planning to do. The key is the Isaiah 8.20 and John 14.15 (if you love me keep my commandments"). Here the focus is on keeping the 10 commandments (Sabbath on Saturday) and testifying to Jesus

Then you are stronger than just worrying about Tongues.

Hope this helps.
...

 

[JJ2003]

finally, focus on Jesus all the time - not on the outcomes of humans. Otherwise you will focus on the (flesh) outputs of men and not on the (spritual) output of Jesus - His love.