Speak the Truth, or be PC?

[icamewithasword]

To start, if you are NOT a Christian, please don't post here.

Not that that will do any good, I'm sure.

Why is this site called "Christian Forums"? I think it's a misnomer, maybe "Religious Forum" would be a better name? That way you would at least expect to find postings from agnostics, atheists, or even wichen (sp?). I am SO dissapointed in this site. Even when visiting the Baptist threads, where I would hope to be able to pose questions or respond to questions from what I would hope to be other believers of the truth I know, I find it mixed in with just the opposite.
First, is there a "safe" place on this site where like Christians can converse without attack from quasi-scientists, atheists,..etc.? For instance, I go to Creationist Theology (as I was not interested in Theistic Evolution) and the first thread I find interesting (because of the title) is started by someone that tries to refute Genesis creation. What am I missing here?
Second, how do you handle it? Or rather, how can you stand it? I know we are to expect persecution. But we are taught that what we are told in darkness, we are to shout abroad when the daylight comes, and what The Lord whispers in our ears, we are to shout from the rooftops. I've even read posts in this Baptist forum where one was admonished for speaking (typing) the truth, because the he wasn't being PC enough. My understanding is that we cannot be PC and spread the gospel at the same time.
In Matthew 16:23 Jesus says to Peter "Get behind me, Satan! You are a hindrance to me. For you are not setting your mind on the things of God, but on the things of man."
Not very PC these days....but I don't believe we are supposed to be. I don't think we are to modify scripture so as not to offend anyone. All things written in scripture are true, and changing things for the sake of sparing someones feelings would be an affront to God. I'm not a scholar, but the Holy Spirit has made this true to me. I am sure that whomever you are able to convert (if even possible anymore) will thank you in the end when standing next to you in the Kingdom.
To be perfectly honest though, reading posts in here (CF) that cannot possibly be inspired by the Holy Spirit that I know are both disheartening and tiring.
Any CHRISTIAN input would be appreciated.

 

[SallyNow]

I'm not a Baptist, and I respect FSG, but you asked for responses from all Christians so... I won't debate what you have said, but I will say that the subforums you mentioned only allow Christians to debate, although some allow non-Christians to ask questions or post fellowship (non-debating) posts. So, it is very likely that the posts you read were from Christians, maybe Christians who are scientists, not "quasi-scientists or atheists". There are grey-area issues in Christianity where there is some room for debate, and not all Christians agree on those subjects, but that doesn't mean that those who do not agree with you are not Christians. They simply have a different point of view.

 

[icamewithasword]

I'm not a Baptist, and I respect FSG, but you asked for responses from all Christians so... I won't debate what you have said, but I will say that the subforums you mentioned only allow Christians to debate, although some allow non-Christians to ask questions or post fellowship (non-debating) posts. So, it is very likely that the posts you read were from Christians, maybe Christians who are scientists, not "quasi-scientists or atheists". There are grey-area issues in Christianity where there is some room for debate, and not all Christians agree on those subjects, but that doesn't mean that those who do not agree with you are not Christians. They simply have a different point of view.

Thanks for your reply. And maybe my sub-forum example was not a good one.... I did not intend to say anything meaning that those who don't agree with my pov are not Christians; and I'll re-read my op, but I don't think I said that. But there are postings from self-proclaimed atheists and agnostics in christian forums. BTW I thought it strange that there would even be a little faith icon for atheists.....
I understand there is and always will be debate; but I disagree with grey-area issues (or at least calling it that).
God Bless!

 

[56Bluesman]

To start, if you are NOT a Christian, please don't post here.

Not that that will do any good, I'm sure.

Why is this site called "Christian Forums"? I think it's a misnomer, maybe "Religious Forum" would be a better name? That way you would at least expect to find postings from agnostics, atheists, or even wichen (sp?). I am SO dissapointed in this site. Even when visiting the Baptist threads, where I would hope to be able to pose questions or respond to questions from what I would hope to be other believers of the truth I know, I find it mixed in with just the opposite.
First, is there a "safe" place on this site where like Christians can converse without attack from quasi-scientists, atheists,..etc.? For instance, I go to Creationist Theology (as I was not interested in Theistic Evolution) and the first thread I find interesting (because of the title) is started by someone that tries to refute Genesis creation. What am I missing here?
Second, how do you handle it? Or rather, how can you stand it? I know we are to expect persecution. But we are taught that what we are told in darkness, we are to shout abroad when the daylight comes, and what The Lord whispers in our ears, we are to shout from the rooftops. I've even read posts in this Baptist forum where one was admonished for speaking (typing) the truth, because the he wasn't being PC enough. My understanding is that we cannot be PC and spread the gospel at the same time.
In Matthew 16:23 Jesus says to Peter "Get behind me, Satan! You are a hindrance to me. For you are not setting your mind on the things of God, but on the things of man."
Not very PC these days....but I don't believe we are supposed to be. I don't think we are to modify scripture so as not to offend anyone. All things written in scripture are true, and changing things for the sake of sparing someones feelings would be an affront to God. I'm not a scholar, but the Holy Spirit has made this true to me. I am sure that whomever you are able to convert (if even possible anymore) will thank you in the end when standing next to you in the Kingdom.
To be perfectly honest though, reading posts in here (CF) that cannot possibly be inspired by the Holy Spirit that I know are both disheartening and tiring.
Any CHRISTIAN input would be appreciated.

I'm a christian, and the fact that atheists and unbelievers come to these boards to troll, to ask questions, or whatever they're up to, doesn't bug me in the least. It's an opportunity to minister for me. For me, I take apologetics and polemics of the faith seriously as we are called to contend for the faith. It sounds like you want a place where only christians that subscribe to your view of things are allowed, as you seem frustrated when challenged not only by unbelievers, but other christians as well, who don't see everything eye to eye with you.

I've got bad news that such a safe house doesn't exsist in the public square of reality or the internet, let alone in the majority of churches. I encourage your staying fast to the scriptures as you have. However you need to realize that born again, saved, Holy Ghost filled believers don't always see eye to eye on all of the particulars of biblical interpretation. If you want to see the fur fly, just get in on any discussion of doctrinal subjects such as predestination and election! Eschatology is a mine field of pain, and so are the debates over the interpretation of the first chapter of Genesis as it's been going on long before Charles Darwin came along with his teachings of materialistic naturalism which got into the fray.

Keep studying God's word and learning as much as you can. Accept that others in the faith will have disagreements here and there, but as long as they don't stray from the fundamentals of the Gospel of Christ, the rest of the debates are small beans in the scheme of things imho. As for the secular world all we can do is proclaim the hope that is within us without shame. I'm careful to choose my battles carefully so as not to speak upon things I don't know about, and rather give my witness as to why I believe.

I respect that non believers ask good questions that do need to be adressed. Here I'd encourage you to study basic apologetics in regards to the many common questions that we christians are asked, and if you don't know something say so, but declare what you do know in humility. I hope this helps some.

 

[arunma]

Hi Icamewithasword. I fully agree with what you've written in your original post, and these are issues that trouble me as well. Today few people in the church think it's right for us to tell unbelievers that they are going to hell. I have to wonder what profit it is for us to water down the horror of hell, seeing as how we want people to not go there, but instead to join themselves to Jesus and be saved. I also agree with you that there's a problem with giving non-Christians access to forums such as this one. First of all, it gives them another platform to propagate sinful worldviews. Secondly, it gives them an opportunity to attack the Gospel with foolish and immature comments. I'm all for reasonable debate. The problem is that most non-Christians aren't interested in reasonable debate. Atheists, for example, reverence science to the extent of idolatry. Yet I've found that they rarely embrace logic and reason as we do. Why give them a voice on this forum when they only mean to espouse illogical ideas?

You need to know a bit about the history of this forum. There used to be stricter rules about posts by non-Christians. In previous times there were forums for Christians, and forums for everyone. Only Christians could post in the Christian forums. Last year those barriers were completely removed. Then, more recently, the Christian and outreach forums were replaced, except that now non-Christians could post anywhere they wanted. So when you have a Christian posting on this forum about a certain struggle that he or she is going through, you will soon have an atheist or (worse) a liberal Christian wolf come in to devour that person. Is this forum doing more bad than good? Probably. That's why I still post here, in fact.

Anyway, good to meet someone who shares my concerns.

 

[icamewithasword]

I'm a christian, and the fact that atheists and unbelievers come to these boards to troll, to ask questions, or whatever they're up to, doesn't bug me in the least. It's an opportunity to minister for me. For me, I take apologetics and polemics of the faith seriously as we are called to contend for the faith. It sounds like you want a place where only christians that subscribe to your view of things are allowed, as you seem frustrated when challenged not only by unbelievers, but other christians as well, who don't see everything eye to eye with you.
First, thank you for your reply.
I feel I must say that when I am speaking of "believers in the Truth I know" that I don't mean to say that "I know the Truth, and you don't". I am a growing follower, doing my best to learn something new each day. But I am frustrated with postings by unbelievers that are not asking if God exists, but rather are here to state that he doesn't.

I've got bad news that such a safe house doesn't exsist in the public square of reality or the internet, let alone in the majority of churches. I encourage your staying fast to the scriptures as you have. However you need to realize that born again, saved, Holy Ghost filled believers don't always see eye to eye on all of the particulars of biblical interpretation. If you want to see the fur fly, just get in on any discussion of doctrinal subjects such as predestination and election! Eschatology is a mine field of pain, and so are the debates over the interpretation of the first chapter of Genesis as it's been going on long before Charles Darwin came along with his teachings of materialistic naturalism which got into the fray.

As far as the first half of this paragraph; so true my brother. After all, it's the internet--what could I possibly exect?
Predestination and election....ohhh, no. I'm not even going to go there!
As far as Genesis, I see a fundemental diff in debating over how long a day was, to debating over whether or not God created all things or if earth (or a form of it) was aready here, and God came along and improved upon it.


Keep studying God's word and learning as much as you can. Accept that others in the faith will have disagreements here and there, but as long as they don't stray from the fundamentals of the Gospel of Christ, the rest of the debates are small beans in the scheme of things imho. As for the secular world all we can do is proclaim the hope that is within us without shame. I'm careful to choose my battles carefully so as not to speak upon things I don't know about, and rather give my witness as to why I believe.

A good philosophy, friend. But do we "accept" or "tolerate"? I feel there is a fundemental diff between the two.
For instance, should we tolerate a form of "secular Christianity" that adjusts or interprets scripture to fit science, or should we accept it?

I respect that non believers ask good questions that do need to be adressed. Here I'd encourage you to study basic apologetics in regards to the many common questions that we christians are asked, and if you don't know something say so, but declare what you do know in humility. I hope this helps some.

It has helped me, brother.
God Bless you and yours!

 

[icamewithasword]

Hi Icamewithasword. I fully agree with what you've written in your original post, and these are issues that trouble me as well. Today few people in the church think it's right for us to tell unbelievers that they are going to hell. I have to wonder what profit it is for us to water down the horror of hell, seeing as how we want people to not go there, but instead to join themselves to Jesus and be saved. I also agree with you that there's a problem with giving non-Christians access to forums such as this one. First of all, it gives them another platform to propagate sinful worldviews. Secondly, it gives them an opportunity to attack the Gospel with foolish and immature comments. I'm all for reasonable debate. The problem is that most non-Christians aren't interested in reasonable debate. Atheists, for example, reverence science to the extent of idolatry. Yet I've found that they rarely embrace logic and reason as we do. Why give them a voice on this forum when they only mean to espouse illogical ideas?

You need to know a bit about the history of this forum. There used to be stricter rules about posts by non-Christians. In previous times there were forums for Christians, and forums for everyone. Only Christians could post in the Christian forums. Last year those barriers were completely removed. Then, more recently, the Christian and outreach forums were replaced, except that now non-Christians could post anywhere they wanted. So when you have a Christian posting on this forum about a certain struggle that he or she is going through, you will soon have an atheist or (worse) a liberal Christian wolf come in to devour that person. Is this forum doing more bad than good? Probably. That's why I still post here, in fact.

I don't mean to add or take away anything you said here; but do you think it's the forum that is doing more bad than good, or is it a seemingly inability or unwillingness for us to "call a spade a spade"? Which do you feel is worse?

Anyway, good to meet someone who shares my concerns.

God Bless you, and may the Holy Spirit speak thru you.

 

[arunma]

I don't mean to add or take away anything you said here; but do you think it's the forum that is doing more bad than good, or is it a seemingly inability or unwillingness for us to "call a spade a spade"? Which do you feel is worse?

That's an important question. Certainly both are bad. Non-Christians do harm by looking for weak believers to devour, and Christians often abdicate our duty by failing to shoot the wolves. I'd say that the latter does far more harm. It gives struggling Christians the impression that faith of Christ has no backbone or steadfastness. It denies Psalm 40:2, which says, "He drew me up from the pit of destruction, out of the miry bog, and set my feet upon a rock, making my steps secure." Time would fail me to tell of how many times I have seen Christians on this forum claim that their faith is arbitrary, and that there is no good and logical reason to believe that Jesus is the Christ. It turns faith into blind faith.

Failing to call a spade a spade, as you put it, is very dangerous. Isaiah said,

Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter! (Isaiah 5:20)
​

We shouldn't be afraid to say that non-Christian religions, heresy, and all other forms of unbelief are evil. The liberals will say that it's not loving. They'll probably (mis)quote 2 Timothy 2:25. But speaking the truth in love isn't hard. All you have to do is love your neighbor as yourself. If you love your neighbor, you'll tell him that he's a sinner destined for eternal conscious torment in hell, and that God has provided a means of escape through Jesus Christ. Liberal Christians, on the other hand, would have us not speak the truth at all. There's a lot of heresy out there, and I think that now more than ever it is crucial for us to proclaim Biblical truths about repentence, the resurrection, and the eternal judgment.

 

[eliems]

I also was suprised to see so much non-christian content on christianforums.com . Jehova Witnesses and Mormons as well as aethiests and liberals having their own venues.

I do believe however that where ever we go, the Great Commission is before us! Bringing these folks in to the mix will bring opportunities to share the love of Christ and how precious is that?

This said, I was responding to a post in the "Todays Posts" forum and it said I was not authorized to participate. Then I noticed I was in the Teens forum.

This makes sense to me as my profile states that I am not a teen and they should have their own place to post and get peer review.

Perhaps it would make sense for Christians to have a place to post where they don't have to sort through non-christian perspectives and where other non-christian members can not post.

As for your point about Young Earth Creationism, I am one that falls in to that perspective and this after much studying of the sciences including Anthropolgy to 3rd year university. To me the evidence is over-whelming and Macro-Evolution is nonsense.

Still, this is an in-house debate within the Pale of Orthodoxy where heaven-bound Christians do disagree. The priciple is: In Essentials - Unity, In non-Essentials Liberty, and in all things Charity.

To God be the Glory!

 

[56Bluesman]

God Bless you, and may the Holy Spirit speak thru you.

Thanks for your reply. No I can't accept that which goes against clear scriptual teaching either. When I say I won't speak about that which I don't know, it would be foolish for me get drawn into a debate with an unbeliever where I don't have the particular expertise or knowledge if they arguing from a position I am not familiar with. At that point I can only offer my own testimony and witness and leave it at that. At other times I know there's a point where it is casting pearls before swine and I'd be wasting my time. I can only stand upon Christ, the scriptures, and utter what the Holy Spirit has given me to say in a given moment. Fortunately God's word never goes out in vain, nor comes back void, even if it seems that way at times. I think these forums can do a lot of good, but like crossing any open field you have to watch out for the rabbit holes that can cause one to stumble or sprain an ankle or break a leg to use a metaphor. I know I've stepped into my fair share over the years.

 

[canukian]

That's an important question. Certainly both are bad. Non-Christians do harm by looking for weak believers to devour, and Christians often abdicate our duty by failing to shoot the wolves. I'd say that the latter does far more harm. It gives struggling Christians the impression that faith of Christ has no backbone or steadfastness. It denies Psalm 40:2, which says, "He drew me up from the pit of destruction, out of the miry bog, and set my feet upon a rock, making my steps secure." Time would fail me to tell of how many times I have seen Christians on this forum claim that their faith is arbitrary, and that there is no good and logical reason to believe that Jesus is the Christ. It turns faith into blind faith.

Failing to call a spade a spade, as you put it, is very dangerous. Isaiah said,

Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter! (Isaiah 5:20)
​

We shouldn't be afraid to say that non-Christian religions, heresy, and all other forms of unbelief are evil. The liberals will say that it's not loving. They'll probably (mis)quote 2 Timothy 2:25. But speaking the truth in love isn't hard. All you have to do is love your neighbor as yourself. If you love your neighbor, you'll tell him that he's a sinner destined for eternal conscious torment in hell, and that God has provided a means of escape through Jesus Christ. Liberal Christians, on the other hand, would have us not speak the truth at all. There's a lot of heresy out there, and I think that now more than ever it is crucial for us to proclaim Biblical truths about repentence, the resurrection, and the eternal judgment.

ha!
an instant favorite of mine!
it is all too easy for man to mistake good for evil
if im not mistaken,
that is the embodiment of PC.
ha! isaiah 5 20!
thanks for that lil pick me up.

 

[spiersdodgerblue]

Hi Icamewithasword. I fully agree with what you've written in your original post, and these are issues that trouble me as well. Today few people in the church think it's right for us to tell unbelievers that they are going to hell. I have to wonder what profit it is for us to water down the horror of hell, seeing as how we want people to not go there, but instead to join themselves to Jesus and be saved. I also agree with you that there's a problem with giving non-Christians access to forums such as this one. First of all, it gives them another platform to propagate sinful worldviews. Secondly, it gives them an opportunity to attack the Gospel with foolish and immature comments. I'm all for reasonable debate. The problem is that most non-Christians aren't interested in reasonable debate. Atheists, for example, reverence science to the extent of idolatry. Yet I've found that they rarely embrace logic and reason as we do. Why give them a voice on this forum when they only mean to espouse illogical ideas?

You need to know a bit about the history of this forum. There used to be stricter rules about posts by non-Christians. In previous times there were forums for Christians, and forums for everyone. Only Christians could post in the Christian forums. Last year those barriers were completely removed. Then, more recently, the Christian and outreach forums were replaced, except that now non-Christians could post anywhere they wanted. So when you have a Christian posting on this forum about a certain struggle that he or she is going through, you will soon have an atheist or (worse) a liberal Christian wolf come in to devour that person. Is this forum doing more bad than good? Probably. That's why I still post here, in fact.

Anyway, good to meet someone who shares my concerns.

I totally agree with this post!

As far as calling a spade a spade....If you do you might get reported and then asked to take it back. And we can't take it back, so.....

 

[icamewithasword]

Thanks for your reply. No I can't accept that which goes against clear scriptual teaching either. When I say I won't speak about that which I don't know, it would be foolish for me get drawn into a debate with an unbeliever where I don't have the particular expertise or knowledge if they arguing from a position I am not familiar with. At that point I can only offer my own testimony and witness and leave it at that. At other times I know there's a point where it is casting pearls before swine and I'd be wasting my time. I can only stand upon Christ, the scriptures, and utter what the Holy Spirit has given me to say in a given moment. Fortunately God's word never goes out in vain, nor comes back void, even if it seems that way at times. I think these forums can do a lot of good, but like crossing any open field you have to watch out for the rabbit holes that can cause one to stumble or sprain an ankle or break a leg to use a metaphor. I know I've stepped into my fair share over the years.

And a good metaphor. Unfortunately, I think I've stepped into a couple of them in just the past few days.
Thanks again!

 

[icamewithasword]

That's an important question. Certainly both are bad. Non-Christians do harm by looking for weak believers to devour, and Christians often abdicate our duty by failing to shoot the wolves. I'd say that the latter does far more harm. It gives struggling Christians the impression that faith of Christ has no backbone or steadfastness. It denies Psalm 40:2, which says, "He drew me up from the pit of destruction, out of the miry bog, and set my feet upon a rock, making my steps secure." Time would fail me to tell of how many times I have seen Christians on this forum claim that their faith is arbitrary, and that there is no good and logical reason to believe that Jesus is the Christ. It turns faith into blind faith.

Failing to call a spade a spade, as you put it, is very dangerous. Isaiah said,

Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter! (Isaiah 5:20)
​

We shouldn't be afraid to say that non-Christian religions, heresy, and all other forms of unbelief are evil. The liberals will say that it's not loving. They'll probably (mis)quote 2 Timothy 2:25. But speaking the truth in love isn't hard. All you have to do is love your neighbor as yourself. If you love your neighbor, you'll tell him that he's a sinner destined for eternal conscious torment in hell, and that God has provided a means of escape through Jesus Christ. Liberal Christians, on the other hand, would have us not speak the truth at all. There's a lot of heresy out there, and I think that now more than ever it is crucial for us to proclaim Biblical truths about repentence, the resurrection, and the eternal judgment.

Agreed, friend!
I also agree with another response (Bluesman I think) that humiltiy is needed, and we must not be judgemental. After all, we are all sinners. And if our neighbor punches us in the mouth when we tell him; well I feel that scripture is fulfilled.
But that should never stop us!

 

[icamewithasword]

I also was suprised to see so much non-christian content on christianforums.com . Jehova Witnesses and Mormons as well as aethiests and liberals having their own venues.

I do believe however that where ever we go, the Great Commission is before us! Bringing these folks in to the mix will bring opportunities to share the love of Christ and how precious is that?

This said, I was responding to a post in the "Todays Posts" forum and it said I was not authorized to participate. Then I noticed I was in the Teens forum.

This makes sense to me as my profile states that I am not a teen and they should have their own place to post and get peer review.

Perhaps it would make sense for Christians to have a place to post where they don't have to sort through non-christian perspectives and where other non-christian members can not post.

As for your point about Young Earth Creationism, I am one that falls in to that perspective and this after much studying of the sciences including Anthropolgy to 3rd year university. To me the evidence is over-whelming and Macro-Evolution is nonsense.

Still, this is an in-house debate within the Pale of Orthodoxy where heaven-bound Christians do disagree. The priciple is: In Essentials - Unity, In non-Essentials Liberty, and in all things Charity.

I'm a little fuzzy on this "Pale of Orthodoxy" thingy...Essentials-unity, nonEssentials-Liberty, and in all things Charity I understand. But who (and this would be a man) determines what is non-essential? My problem is that if man is determining what is essential (i.e . which parts of the Bible are essential) then we are disregarding those parts of scripture and leaving them to interpretation and support by science. And as they are "non-essential" and can't be supported by science, they are then disregarded almost entirely (it seems). And this is, again, Mans doing. I feel we are making a mistake here. I feel scripture is all true as written, or none of it is true.

To God be the Glory!

God bless you!

 

[canukian]

here is a hillarious article on a bigwig of political corectness a human rights commishioner
may be pc people tend to be psycopaths

CANADA vs HUMAN RIGHTS
"HUMAN RIGHTS" COMMISSIONER JAILED
Hey, it's a start - plus The New Denormal

start to read it ill bet you finnish it!