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A remnant of that old Apostolic epoch was saved in one of Justin's writings (100 - 165 AD) in a Syriac translation which goes like this: "Some writer [note: one of many, as it says "εις των συγγραφέων" i.e. one among the many writers] that lived during the time of Augustus and Tiberius, wrote that Mariah the Galilaean, the one who gave birth to the Messiah, Who was the one crucified in Jerusalem, never met a husband and even though Joseph did not abandon her, he stayed nevertheless in purity without a woman and Mariah stayed without a man" (Zahn Geschichte des neutestamentl dichen Kanons, tome II, p. 177).
Prove then the ressurection took place then....despite that the Bible says that... Where are the eyewitnesses?
LOL. Not only were there witnesses to the risen Christ but also those who were ressurected with Him. For He is the ressurection and the life. There may not have been eyewitnesses to Him actually rising but there sure was and it is written there were witnesses to Him after the ressurection. Now with Mary there is nothing said in scripture about her being a forever virgin. In fact scripture tells us that Jesus had brothers and even names them and sisters. I know that the CC and the EO try to claim these could be cousins or kinsmen but that is not how scripture speaks of them. The word for cousin was not used in the greek.Okay then provide with verses that mention eyewitnesses to the ressurection...
LOL. Not only were there witnesses to the risen Christ but also those who were ressurected with Him....
Regarding Mary's perpetual virginity:
It helps to know some stuff about the culture of the time. It was not uncommon for women to choose to be what was called a 'consecrated virgin.' And some people in that state still chose to marry for various reasons.
Things that sound so unreal and foreign to us are sometimes just a matter of cultural differences (and time differences of course).
Regarding Mary's perpetual virginity:
It helps to know some stuff about the culture of that time. It was not uncommon for women to choose to be what was called a 'consecrated virgin.' And some people in that state still chose to marry for various reasons. People of both sexes sometimes chose that life.
You only know that by reading the Bible. And you only have a Bible because of the authority of the Church that canonized it - the same Church that teaches us about these Marion doctrines.
Actually men are just that men. It is God who has inspired scripture and not man. God can even make rocks be the children of Abraham and He can and did use a donkey to speak forth His word. I am quite positive that God can put His cannon of scripture together by any means that He sees fit. I trust is God and His inspired written word above what any man may say. When something is preaced I take it to the written scripture to make sure what is being said is actually what has been written. I hold all spiritual matters up to the light of the written word and not mens mouths.For I can and do trust God fully.
Your reasoning is flawed. If you think the Church can err in these matters, then you must think that the Church could have erred in canonizing the Bible, and therefore you have no idea what you ae reading.
I have addressed this above.
Conversely, if you are sure that the Bible is the Word of God, then you must assume that the Holy Spirit led the councils that canonized it - the same councils that give us our Marian doctrines.
I do not trust in the counsel of men. For God is greater.
Or are you going to sit back and say: "Yes the Holy Spirit led the Church in that decision. No, the Holy Spirit did not lead the Church in that decision over there. Lets see, the Holy Spirit was at Nicea, but not at Constantinople......"
It gets a bit silly.
If what is being taught is not found in the written scriptures then I do not believe it. Marian doctrine cannot be found in the written pages of scripture therefore all anyone has to go on with these doctrines is hearsay from the mouth of men and not out of the mouth of God.
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Great point. People don't realize how our sex-driven society shapes their thinking. They try to impose 21st century American thinking on 1st century Jewish people. That is why the traditions of the ECF's is crucial to understanding the meaning of God's revelation, and why protestantism errs so badly so often.
A virgin does not desire to marry.Well, a person who chose to be a consecrated virgin did so for life. Otherwise what is the point of it, do you know what I mean?
Hence, it would be perpetual. I think it is to demonstrate purity, and that would certainly be fitting of the mother of Jesus Christ.
As to whether the perpetual aspect is of highest importance, I don't know that it is, other than that it's a teaching of the church which Catholics are supposed to trust. And I guess it is a matter of honoring the mother of our Saviour. That is how I take it anyway.
Sorry, I haven't read this entire thread so maybe i don't know what you're addressing.
Yes, right, she was engaged. Like I said, some people who chose that life also chose to marry. I don't know why they would! But some did.
Well, a person who chose to be a consecrated virgin did so for life.
I think it is to demonstrate purity
Where in Scripture does it say that God has inspired Scripture but not His church? Those who say that Scripture is inspired but not the Church have the burden of proof, and the only proof for this is - Martin Luther, who was, rumor has it, a mere man. Those who believe in biblical inerrancy have merely substituted the infallibility of Scripture for the infallibility of the Pope. Both Scripture and God's church are inspired and to cling to one or the other alone is a form of idolatry.
Where in Scripture does it say that God has inspired Scripture but not His church? Those who say that Scripture is inspired but not the Church have the burden of proof, and the only proof for this is - Martin Luther, who was, rumor has it, a mere man. Those who believe in biblical inerrancy have merely substituted the infallibility of the Pope for the infallibility of Scripture. Both Scripture and God's church are inspired and to cling to one or the other alone is a form of idolatry.
Is a wife impure because she shares loving, marital intimacies with her husband? Why do you feel that such defile the wife and makes her impure? And how does that substantiate the DOGMA of Mary as a PERPETUAL VIRGIN?
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