Soundbites and superiority!

[louiseandgary]

It drives me mad when I hear a Christian talking to a seeker,(like myself), in the most incomprehensible language. It's so unhelpful at times to exhibit your exhilaration at being saved and talking about how God has revealed himself to you. How Christians talk about morality is offputting, for example the pressure put on young people to abstain from sex. It also worries me that once a person has declaired themselves saved, they are trusted and given more allowance for misdemeanors than non-Christians.

I desperately want to be a Christian. I believe in what the Bible says and consider myself a good person. I work hard and have a happy home life with plenty of friends. God isn't talking to me and I feel like a vacuum when I hear zealots brag about how they are filled to bursting with the spirit.

Please don't reply with catchphrases, just personal testimony in your own words.

 

[calidog]

It sounds like you're on your way to a personal relationship with the Living Lord. As for christians, we're just imperfect people like everyone else. We will all be battling pride and lust while in these bodys.

 

[childofGod31]

Here are the steps every believer should have gone through and I did too. Joy comes after earnestly studying the Bible and having a good relationship with God (which means obeying his Word. In order to obey, you must know it first. For example, if God said: "don't lie", but you keep lying, then your relationship with God will not get any better)

Read the Bible (faith matures with more understanding and experience)
Romans 10:17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.

Just in case you never got born again (some Christians don't consider it necessary):
Believe in Jesus/get born again (same event)
Romans 10:9 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

John 3:3 In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again."

1PE 1:23 For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

When you believe, Spirit of God comes in you.
Ephesians 1:13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,


Turn your life around/stop living in sin/DO what the Bible says:

1JO 3:9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.

1JO 2:4 The man who says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him.5 But if anyone obeys his word, God's love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him:6 Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.

JAM 1:22 Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says.

ROM 8:8 Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God. 9 You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.

Pray to God:
praying is like communication in a relationship. If spouses don't communicate, they will grow apart. The same with Christian and God. Praying is worshipping God, thanking God, asking God for help, praying for other people...

Jude 1:20 But you, dear friends, build yourselves up in your most holy faith and pray in the Holy Spirit.
1Thessalonians 5:17 pray continually;


Grow!!!
Become more mature Christian.
2PE 1:5 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge;
6 and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness;
7 and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love. 8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins.10 Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, 11 and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

JAM 1:2 Consider it pure joy, my brothers, whenever you face trials of many kinds,3 because you know that the testing of your faith develops perseverance.4 Perseverance must finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything.

Read the Bible over and over again, until you can remember it by heart.
PSA 119:11 I have hidden your word in my heart that I might not sin against you.

 

[MikeMcK]

It drives me mad when I hear a Christian talking to a seeker,(like myself), in the most incomprehensible language. It's so unhelpful at times to exhibit your exhilaration at being saved and talking about how God has revealed himself to you.

So, let me get this straight: the Sovereign God of the Universe has condescended to become a man, live among us, die for our sins, have a personal relationship with us, and promise to take us to Heaven, which He has prepared for us, so that we may fellowship with Him forever, and you don't think we should be excited about that?

How Christians talk about morality is offputting, for example the pressure put on young people to abstain from sex.

Morality good. Teenage sex bad. It ain't exactly rocket science.

It also worries me that once a person has declaired themselves saved, they are trusted and given more allowance for misdemeanors than non-Christians.

Por exemplo?

I desperately want to be a Christian.

According to your icon, you already are.

I believe in what the Bible says and consider myself a good person.

If you believed the Bible, then you'd know you're not a good person.

Please don't reply with catchphrases, just personal testimony in your own words.

Why? Sounds like you've already made up your own mind.

 

[tapero]

It drives me mad when I hear a Christian talking to a seeker,(like myself), in the most incomprehensible language. It's so unhelpful at times to exhibit your exhilaration at being saved and talking about how God has revealed himself to you. How Christians talk about morality is offputting, for example the pressure put on young people to abstain from sex. It also worries me that once a person has declaired themselves saved, they are trusted and given more allowance for misdemeanors than non-Christians.
Hi,
Christians aren't given more allowance than non believers in any way. However we are saved thru faith in Christ, and we always will continue to sin, as we live in a sinful body and are in the world.

There is only one sin that is unforgivable and that is never believing in Christ. One has to death to cometo Christ, but we dont know when we will die, is the problem.

Not all Christians believe the same in regards to morality issues.

However, sexual immorality is a sin, it's clear in the bible, but again, it is never believing in Christ, that he died for our sins and was resurrected which seals the matter.

I desperately want to be a Christian. I believe in what the Bible says and consider myself a good person. I work hard and have a happy home life with plenty of friends.

You can be a good person, have higher morals than a Christian, do very good things, etc, but its not about that in God's eyes. We are sinners all of us. We sin, whether we recognize it or not we sin, and Jesus paid for that sin, and we only need believe in Him and that he was resurrected.


God isn't talking to me and I feel like a vacuum when I hear zealots brag about how they are filled to bursting with the spirit.
Hi, yes, some brothers and sisters do speak more about such things, it is a sort of denominational thing. But I know I am not always bursting with the Spirit. However, when i read, sing, and pray, I do feel full of the Spirit. When things move me I feel full of the Spirit.

We are indeed zealous for God, however God doesn't speak to me either, except by His word, the bible.
Please don't reply with catchphrases, just personal testimony in your own words.

Blessings,
tapero

 

[Digit]

Hey Louiseandgary,

It drives me mad when I hear a Christian talking to a seeker,(like myself), in the most incomprehensible language. It's so unhelpful at times to exhibit your exhilaration at being saved and talking about how God has revealed himself to you.

I know exactly what you mean. I really battled with this, I almost wished when I was unsaved I could just take the Christian out of someone and talk to them in layman terms about God, yet still have that confidence that I was talking to a Godly person. Scripture, rapture, saved, sin and a dozen other terms just sort of put me off a while back. It was like a Godly hammer just whacking me over and over yet I didn't feel anything.

To be honest, being on the other side of the fence now, I can barely stop myself doing the same thing. As another poster said, it doesn't sound like you are far off. I would hearily recommend trying to see if you can find an Alpha course near you. If you want something that explains Christianity in really basic terms, and relates them to things you can understand, then this would be it. Despite being a Christian I am attending one, and it's so immensely helpful, as it not only cements my belief, but also equips me to relate to others too.

How Christians talk about morality is offputting, for example the pressure put on young people to abstain from sex. It also worries me that once a person has declaired themselves saved, they are trusted and given more allowance for misdemeanors than non-Christians.

I can understand what you mean about this too. When I was a non-believer I was finding many things with my girlfriend difficult. in regards to more trust/less trust, I am tempted to say that this isn't really the Christian way, perhaps you have seen it exhibited in others, and I can understand why as I see it too. To be honest, we are instructed to love others, as we love ourselves. That means that regardless of what I think of someone, I should trust them wholeheartedly, because that is how I wish to be treated. I want to be considered innocent by default, not guilty, or almost guilty. Also, we are called not to judge, if a Christian is put off by something you have done for example, he should not judge or condemn you. He has no right. We do love the sinners, just not the sin, and sometimes it's hard for us to seperate the two and approach someone as God would.

I desperately want to be a Christian. I believe in what the Bible says and consider myself a good person. I work hard and have a happy home life with plenty of friends. God isn't talking to me and I feel like a vacuum when I hear zealots brag about how they are filled to bursting with the spirit.

Are you sure God isn't talking to you? What are you expecting, a telephone call? "Hey, this is God, I can't chat long as I am calling long-distance, but what can I do for you?"

I'm just kidding, but really I think you will know when God talks to you, it's hard at first to seperate your own thoughts from God. Do you go to church btw?

Also remember that we are all going to be a different levels of faith. Yes there will be people who are filled to the brim with life, love and God and for someone who is by comparison in a place of darkness, it will make you feel unhappy and sad.

Please don't reply with catchphrases, just personal testimony in your own words.

My single most important piece of advice, is this: Christianity is about a relationship between you, and God. Expose yourself to God, in every way in which you can (hence my question about church), and do not be rattled by those around you, as they may be (just as I am) imperfect, and it's not them who you want to get close to, it's God. Talk to Him, open yourself to Him in honesty and truth and be steadfast.

That vacuum you feel, will get filled, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind about that.

Digit

 

[louiseandgary]

So, let me get this straight: the Sovereign God of the Universe has condescended to become a man, live among us, die for our sins, have a personal relationship with us, and promise to take us to Heaven, which He has prepared for us, so that we may fellowship with Him forever, and you don't think we should be excited about that?

It's the everything will be alright band of happy clappers that turn so many away because we feel inferior.


Morality good. Teenage sex bad. It ain't exactly rocket science.
I didn't say teenage sex was good, I said the pressure was bad, and the focus some put on it. Focus could be placed on respecting parents/siblings, not lying or other sins, the teenage sex thing seems to have become a huge issue.


Por exemplo?
George Bush. The main reason he was elected, despite showing signs of incompetence, over John Kerry was the Christian voters who simply trusted in him for that reason.


According to your icon, you already are.
I wasn't aware of that and it does state that my life view is seeking (i'm not sure of the exact phrase)



If you believed the Bible, then you'd know you're not a good person.
I'm certainly not a bad person.



Why? Sounds like you've already made up your own mind.

If I had already made up my mind, why would I ask a question? Don't judge me, you don't really know me. I am an intelligent woman who is aware of morality and wants to experience it for herself. I haven't dug my heels in. I just won't pretend to feel something I don't. So until then I am asking others why they made that leap of faith in their own words.

 

[MikeMcK]

If I had already made up my mind, why would I ask a question?

For the same reason that so many others do. Because they want to make a statement and couch it in the form of a question so that forum rules will protect them from being corrected.

Don't judge me, you don't really know me.

Why not? You don't know us, and yet you've already judged us.

I am an intelligent woman who is aware of morality and wants to experience it for herself.

So then, if you want to experience morality, then why do you criticize us for promoting it?

You still haven't explained why you say you're not a Christian, but are posting with a Christian icon.

 

[heron]

I have run into a lot of people here lately who are frustrated with the concept of hearing God. I think hearing is something that grows with time and not with prowess, and certain personality types are more tuned in with supernatural sound waves (good and bad).

I have also found phases where it seems God puts me through training, where I need to trust what I know to be true instead of feelings. For one person to weigh another's spirituality over what they hear and feel is quite damaging. His grace is sufficient for us; there are times we only hear what we need to hear.

People are competitive, and don't always think to reign that tendency in. Even the most devoted, humble, spiritual people will leak out condescension and spiritual competition. How we react to it is our own challenge.

 

[louiseandgary]

I posted this question because I want to feel something deeper and because I don't feel that power then I don't understand when a christian talks about that to me. I'm not being akward or protagonistic, simply inquisitive. I want you to quote when I have judged you as I have reread my posts and don't feel I have criticised Christians in any way, just asked for an explaination of their experiences in laymans terms. As I don't feel the power of Christ working in me I cannot relate to explainations involving it.
As for being corrected, would you like to correct anything I have said and I will not take offence.
ALso, I again haven't criticised promotion of morality, just the fervent way it is done. Sometimes these movements are more about avoiding certain trials and less about promoting and praising God.
I get the feeling that you are quite negative towards me and I'm not sure why.
PS I am going to change my profile to being a non-christian as I was unaware of this.

 

[louiseandgary]

Thanks so much for those who understand what I am feeling. I have just completed an Alpha course and really enjoyed it. However, there were no others who were at the same stage as I was and I felt a little out of it. I do attend church regularly and enjoy it.

It's such a big thing declaring yourself a Christian and I know (wrongly) that I have said 'and she's a christian' when a christian behaves inappropriately.

I am afraid of falling, but I think my biggest hangup is giving up control to God. I cannot imaging taking advice from anyone other than my husband. It is him I turn to when I am challenged. So with that in mind, I feel I am searching for my Damascus (I know a soundbite!) before I commit so I can be 100% sure that I am capable of carrying out all that is required of a true follower of Christ.

 

[MikeMcK]

I want you to quote when I have judged you as I have reread my posts and don't feel I have criticised Christians in any way

Here you go:

It drives me mad when I hear a Christian talking to a seeker,(like myself), in the most incomprehensible language. It's so unhelpful at times to exhibit your exhilaration at being saved and talking about how God has revealed himself to you. How Christians talk about morality is offputting, for example the pressure put on young people to abstain from sex. It also worries me that once a person has declaired themselves saved, they are trusted and given more allowance for misdemeanors than non-Christians.

 

[heron]

The whole Christian walk can take on this same cliche focus. Remember that your life is very individual to God, and He does not expect you to go through the same ups and downs that others do.

Many of the standards He gave us were simple compassionate warnings to stay out of danger. Avoiding promiscuity prevents STD spread, watching what we put in our bodies helps our bodies serve us well through life.

Giving up control is a frightening concept, especially when we don't know what that will mean. My latest personal give-up related to delaying a project that I wanted to rush through. I felt that God wanted me to spend some time in a certain area of research first, and it paid off in the quality of what I would have put out. It was painful to throw away all my sense of efficiency, and my illusion that I was also wasting potential income.

I seldom blindly follow advice of other Christians who tell me what to do. They are not thrilled about that! but experience shows me that most of the advice comes from people who want others to understand their level of spirituality, (or people who want things to go their own way). I will listen to a broad range of advice, then make decisions mixing prayer and wisdom.

When I hear something that appears to be from God but doesn't make much sense, I ask Him for His patience in delaying while I make sure it was really Him.

I also don't dash out into action the instant I hear a directive, because most missions take preparation and research... sometimes years of it.

 

[Digit]

Here you go:

I have to disagree, she never judged you there, and her statement was in regards to the frustrations a seeker has experienced whilst talking to those already saved. I can totally relate to that, as I experienced it myself, and to be honest it actually doesn't ever really go away. As even being a Christian there are always those of higher or stronger faith, and they do speak using terms and words you often don't understand or sound foreign to you.

Digit

Edit: Wow... thanks a lot quick-quote... >_>

 

[Digit]

Heyas!

Thanks so much for those who understand what I am feeling. I have just completed an Alpha course and really enjoyed it. However, there were no others who were at the same stage as I was and I felt a little out of it.

I reckon I am going to start losing milage on the "I know exactly what you mean!" thing hehe. But yeah, I do. I am still in the middle of my Alpha course, and I actually don't attend the discussions. My two reasons for this is that I don't feel I need them, since I am active on this forum and engross myself in all sorts of debate here, and secondly there were no non-Christians in my discussion group, which I was a little disappointed at.

In fact, my Alpha course was a little strong in terms of the assumption that everyone was Christian there.

I do attend church regularly and enjoy it.

That's just awesome. I'm really glad about that, and I think it will be an immense help. God's Word convicts is a common saying amongst believers, and I find it wholly true. The more you expose yourself the stronger you become and closer to God you become.

It must be so interesting for you, sometimes I almost wish I could do it all over again, I'm not sure if that's good or bad, but I just found I had a thirst for knowledge and it lead me to this wonderful place.

It's such a big thing declaring yourself a Christian and I know (wrongly) that I have said 'and she's a christian' when a christian behaves inappropriately.

Yeah it is, it's a huge deal in fact. I started off slowly really. For example I just changed my religion on a social networking site to "Christian" and then I told my family a while later, and then a few friends, I witnessed to my boss at work who is a great guy and good friend and slowly but surely you build your confidence. Eventually I sent out my testimony on e-mail, to every single person I knew, and have had contact with in the past. It was amazing at how much support came my way, from people saying, "Wow, I really respect that." to comments from those who were struggling by themselves.

I am afraid of falling, but I think my biggest hangup is giving up control to God. I cannot imaging taking advice from anyone other than my husband. It is him I turn to when I am challenged. So with that in mind, I feel I am searching for my Damascus (I know a soundbite!) before I commit so I can be 100% sure that I am capable of carrying out all that is required of a true follower of Christ.

Oddly, in regards to marriage the order of the relationships is God->Husband->Wife. So I wouldn't feel weird about it. Is your husband a Christian btw, or is he seeking with you, I meant to ask this earlier as it's an important question.

But yeah, that aside, the order is as I wrote it and in that regard you can take guidance from your husband without any risk to your faith, so long as it doesn't go against God. The Bible has a great deal to say about marriage. I am getting married in *checks* whoa... 4 days time. Wait... where was I? Oh yeah, we did a Marriage Preparation course at church, and are now doing an Enrich course. Depending on how your seek ends up, I would heartily recommend these to enhance your relationship, the closeness I feel to my fiance now, completely overshadows our former relationship. It almost seems like what we had before was a friendship instead. It's amazing.

All the best, and my best wishes to you. God bless.
Digit

 

[heron]

I think you just springboarded a potential tangential debate here... so in case anyone is tempted, let's hold back and stay on topic.
(-;

 

[indagroove]

It drives me mad when ......

I desperately want to be a Christian. I believe in what the Bible says and consider myself a good person. I work hard and have a happy home life with plenty of friends. God isn't talking to me .....

Please don't reply with catchphrases, just personal testimony in your own words.

God is talking, but I feel you are talking over him. You have to listen for a while.

No personal testimony from me. I'll just sound like a crazy zealot bragging about how I'm am filled with the Holy Spirit.

Praise God !

 

[ContentInHim]

It drives me mad when I hear a Christian talking to a seeker,(like myself), in the most incomprehensible language. It's so unhelpful at times to exhibit your exhilaration at being saved and talking about how God has revealed himself to you. How Christians talk about morality is offputting, for example the pressure put on young people to abstain from sex. It also worries me that once a person has declaired themselves saved, they are trusted and given more allowance for misdemeanors than non-Christians.

I desperately want to be a Christian. I believe in what the Bible says and consider myself a good person. I work hard and have a happy home life with plenty of friends. God isn't talking to me and I feel like a vacuum when I hear zealots brag about how they are filled to bursting with the spirit.

Please don't reply with catchphrases, just personal testimony in your own words.

Louise (and Gary?), becoming born-again can be either a point in time or a process. With my girlfriend, it was a point where she heard the gospel and immediately was convicted and submitted to Jesus. With me it was a process where I declared that I wanted Jesus to take my pain away and slowly as I began to read the Bible and pray and go to church and truly worship God, he did take my pain on himself.

It sounds as though you are on the right path. Be patient and persistant and keep reading the Bible. It helped me to start in the OT and get the history of God and begin to understand his righteousness. By the time I read the NT, I understood how much I needed a savior and was ready to submit to his Lordship.

You also said that people used sexual morality to avoid trials - precisely! Why go through a trial and experience pain if you don't need to? That's why God gave us his commandments. Look at it as a Father's advice to his children - don't want to hurt or get hurt? - then follow my advice! I've had so much more fun as a saved believer than I ever had as a party animal!

 

[Digit]

I've had so much more fun as a saved believer than I ever had as a party animal!

Seconded! Thirded too!

There was a great Alpha video about this, where God set the rules up so we can have a better time. When there are no rules, there is choas and we hurt ourselves.

Digit