Souls - What, where & when?

[Ectezus]

I hear a lot about souls but I honestly have no idea what a soul actually is. For those who believe humans have souls I'd like to ask a couple of questions:


1. What is the soul according to you? How do you define it?

2. Where does the soul reside?

3. When does the soul 'enter' our body? (Conception? 10 cells? 20 cells? Once a brain/heart/... is developed in an embrio? Birth?)

4. What happens with your soul when you're in a coma for 20 years and kept alive with machines?

5. At what age do you tell your children about them having a soul and possibly eternal punishment? And do you consider this moral?

6. How does the concept of a soul work with twins? Is it split in half? Is the soul getting copied?

- Ectezus

 

[ittarter]

I hear a lot about souls but I honestly have no idea what a soul actually is. For those who believe humans have souls I'd like to ask a couple of questions:


1. What is the soul according to you? How do you define it?

2. Where does the soul reside?

3. When does the soul 'enter' our body? (Conception? 10 cells? 20 cells? Once a brain/heart/... is developed in an embrio? Birth?)

4. What happens with your soul when you're in a coma for 20 years and kept alive with machines?

5. At what age do you tell your children about them having a soul and possibly eternal punishment? And do you consider this moral?

6. How does the concept of a soul work with twins? Is it split in half? Is the soul getting copied?

- Ectezus

1. The soul is the whole person -- similar to the "self," "human being" -- an union of numerous attributes centered around a personal identity.

2. Typically we speak of souls on earth (alive / between birth and death), under the earth (Sheol / grave / hell, as the case may be), or in the heavens (afterlife / immortal).

3. I cannot say when during the process of conception a new soul is created -- the jury's still out on that one, for me

4. The spirit doesn't float away! In principal, it should be no different then when you're sleeping or in some other unconscious / semiconscious state.

5. When kids are able to ask the question, it's time for you to provide them an answer. To hide it from them is either a cultural stipulation, or simply immoral.

6. Each human being is a soul. The details of the reproductive process are irrelevant. There is no such thing as "half a soul," just as there is no such thing as "half a person."

Disclaimer: This generally follows the worldview of the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament / Tanakh) and in no way takes into account the Hellenistic developments which encompass the NT, particularly the Pauline corpus.

 

[LJSGM]

I hear a lot about souls but I honestly have no idea what a soul actually is. For those who believe humans have souls I'd like to ask a couple of questions:


1. What is the soul according to you? How do you define it?

We are one person with three parts, a body, a soul and a spirit. The body is the word or manifestation in the physcial world. The soul is your will and who you are, and your spirit is what drives you (that's the best I can do). Each part has a mind of it's own and is like a three dimensional thing.

2. Where does the soul reside?

Interesting question...

3. When does the soul 'enter' our body? (Conception? 10 cells? 20 cells? Once a brain/heart/... is developed in an embrio? Birth?)

It does not "enter," it is created as we live. God creates our soul, just not in the way that we think. That is why God calls us a harvest of souls.

4. What happens with your soul when you're in a coma for 20 years and kept alive with machines?

Nothing?

5. At what age do you tell your children about them having a soul and possibly eternal punishment? And do you consider this moral?

When they are ready. My beliefs are more towards annihilationism in that the scriptures over and over tell us that those that do not recieve everlasting life are destroyed by fire, like the weeds in the furnace. It almost amazes me how Christians could have come to the conclusion of everlasting suffering.

6. How does the concept of a soul work with twins? Is it split in half? Is the soul getting copied?

No.

 

[IzzyPop]

I hear a lot about souls but I honestly have no idea what a soul actually is. For those who believe humans have souls I'd like to ask a couple of questions:


1. What is the soul according to you? How do you define it?

The part that believes in a god.

2. Where does the soul reside?

Gall bladder.

3. When does the soul 'enter' our body? (Conception? 10 cells? 20 cells? Once a brain/heart/... is developed in an embrio? Birth?)

On the 18th birthday. Prior to the soul entering the body, any fetus can be aborted with impunity.

4. What happens with your soul when you're in a coma for 20 years and kept alive with machines?

It has a party down in the morgue with the lawyers' souls (since they don't use theirs).

5. At what age do you tell your children about them having a soul and possibly eternal punishment? And do you consider this moral?

See #3. Every day until they turn 18. Unless they do their chores w/o me reminding them. Then they get rewarded with an extra crust of bread.

6. How does the concept of a soul work with twins? Is it split in half? Is the soul getting copied?

Only 1 soul. They get to fight for it the day before they turn 18. Thunderdome style.

- Ectezus

- IzzyPop

 

[Vehementi Dominus]

The problem is, there's no evidence of the existence of souls, whatsoever. All thoughts, emotions, feelings, etc, can be attributable to a combination of chemical reactions within the brain, one's short/long term memories stored within the brain and the current situation and how the brain perceives it, based off of those memories.

The idea of a soul was created so the people who thought of it felt themselves to be different and superior to every other animal on the planet. The irony is, the imagination used to think of the existence of a soul is the thing that makes us different from every other animal on the planet.

 

[LJSGM]

The problem is, there's no evidence of the existence of souls, whatsoever. All thoughts, emotions, feelings, etc, can be attributable to a combination of chemical reactions within the brain, one's short/long term memories stored within the brain and the current situation and how the brain perceives it, based off of those memories.

The idea of a soul was created so the people who thought of it felt themselves to be different and superior to every other animal on the planet. The irony is, the imagination used to think of the existence of a soul is the thing that makes us different from every other animal on the planet.

You seem to be under the impression that scientists seem to understand the brain and it's functions.

 

[Ectezus]

Thank you for your response LJSGM, but could you clarify a little bit?

3. When does the soul 'enter' our body? (Conception? 10 cells? 20 cells? Once a brain/heart/... is developed in an embrio? Birth?)

It does not "enter," it is created as we live. God creates our soul, just not in the way that we think. That is why God calls us a harvest of souls.

What do you mean with created as we live?
I realize it doesn't really enter your body but still the question remains, when does an embrio have a soul?

If it's from the moment we life it would be one cell, and in that case I would ask you to further clarify your answer for question 6:
What happens in identical twins? Afterall they split their cells and become identical.

- Ectezus

 

[ebia]

I hear a lot about souls but I honestly have no idea what a soul actually is. For those who believe humans have souls I'd like to ask a couple of questions:


1. What is the soul according to you? How do you define it?

Personality/personhood.

5. At what age do you tell your children about them having a soul

At what age do you tell your children about them having a personality or being a person?

and possibly eternal punishment?

when they ask, because it's not part of my view of things.

And do you consider this moral?

Yes

6. How does the concept of a soul work with twins? Is it split in half? Is the soul getting copied?

How does personality work with twins?

The idea of a soul as a descrete 'thing' implanted in but separate from one's physical body is not scriptural. Since your questions seems to be aimed at that view, they don't answer very well.

 

[ebia]

Do you have any charts, graphs, or any other scientific information that would prove your theory on that? I'm not putting you down or asking for an argument. Just a simple yes or no will suffice. Just because someone says that we have a soul doesn't mean we have one. You can't throw common sense out the window when thinking about this.

You aren't getting what he is saying. Replace the world soul with a word like personality, personhood or identity. Would you try to scientifically prove that any of those exist? No - they are not that sort of concept. Neither is soul if you go back to historic biblical thinking.

 

[ebia]

The problem is, there's no evidence of the existence of souls, whatsoever. All thoughts, emotions, feelings, etc, can be attributable to a combination of chemical reactions within the brain, one's short/long term memories stored within the brain and the current situation and how the brain perceives it, based off of those memories.

The idea of a soul was created so the people who thought of it felt themselves to be different and superior to every other animal on the planet. The irony is, the imagination used to think of the existence of a soul is the thing that makes us different from every other animal on the planet.

Would you say the same about concepts like personhood, personality, identity, conciousness...?

 

[LJSGM]

Thank you for your response LJSGM, but could you clarify a little bit?



What do you mean with created as we live?
I realize it doesn't really enter your body but still the question remains, when does an embrio have a soul?

If it's from the moment we life it would be one cell

Don't get me wrong, I'm not for abortion or anything, for several reasons, one being that I hardly think it's God's will to rip out fetus' from our wombs...

I do feel like it is a seed that starts to grow... is a young seeding less precious to God because it hasn't become a full grown tree that produces fruit yet? No, there is more reason to shelter and protect it. Unfortunately our seed stock has turned into weeds, and needs to be replaced by new ones, and thus, we must be born again. Is the flesh the seed I am speaking of? I don't know.

Others say that the human souls does not exist without the body or the spirit, in that we are a living soul and we can not be seperated into different parts, then it becomes much more complicated.

If you have any ideas because we only know in part.

and in that case I would ask you to further clarify your answer for question 6:
What happens in identical twins? Afterall they split their cells and become identical.

- Ectezus

What happens to any child that is born, they develop into an individual living soul.

 

[Jade Margery]

I think, therefore I am. I exist. I have thoughts, memories, feelings, fears and hopes and doubts and ideas, all subject to change and fluctuation. For lack of a better term, this bundle of information is what I call my soul, since it is all of who I am. Just a little file of data in the processor of the universe.

I suppose I have a different definition of soul than most people. For instance, I do not think my little soul could exist without my body. So much of what we think and feel is determined by the chemicals produced in glands throughout our physical bodies that without it, even if some form of 'consciousness' could survive, I would simply not be me. I did not exist before I was born, and I won't exist after I die, and I'm good with that. My life is short, an absolutely minuscule fraction of time, but it's beautiful and I love it anyway.

 

[Vehementi Dominus]

You seem to be under the impression that scientists seem to understand the brain and it's functions.

Whilst we don't understand a lot of it, we understand enough to know that it works just fine without the need for a soul.

 

[Vehementi Dominus]

Would you say the same about concepts like personhood, personality, identity, conciousness...?

How do you mean?

If you're asking me if I'd say there's no evidence that any of them exist, then no, I wouldn't say that, because they evidently do.

If you're asking me whether or not they're all down to how one's brain works, then yes, I do say the same. Take away the brain and the result is a corpse that has no personality or consciousness.

 

[KCKID]

Whilst we don't understand a lot of it, we understand enough to know that it works just fine without the need for a soul.

Maybe we should check the Bible. God breathed into Adam's nostrils and he (Adam) became a living soul. So, what does that tell you?

 

[Vehementi Dominus]

Maybe we should check the Bible. God breathed into Adam's nostrils and he (Adam) became a living soul. So, what does that tell you?

It tells me that the people who wrote the bible weren't neurologists, and probably would've failed high school biology.

 

[ebia]

I think, therefore I am. I exist. I have thoughts, memories, feelings, fears and hopes and doubts and ideas, all subject to change and fluctuation. For lack of a better term, this bundle of information is what I call my soul, since it is all of who I am. Just a little file of data in the processor of the universe.

I suppose I have a different definition of soul than most people. For instance, I do not think my little soul could exist without my body. So much of what we think and feel is determined by the chemicals produced in glands throughout our physical bodies that without it, even if some form of 'consciousness' could survive, I would simply not be me. I did not exist before I was born, and I won't exist after I die, and I'm good with that. My life is short, an absolutely minuscule fraction of time, but it's beautiful and I love it anyway.

Your definition is not out of line with the historic Judeo/Christian understanding. The future hope of which is not for our souls to live on disembodied, but for the resurrection of the dead - renewed, glorified, bodies in a renewed, glorified, creation.

"God will upload our software until such time as he gives us new hardware to run it on".

 

[ebia]

How do you mean?

If you're asking me if I'd say there's no evidence that any of them exist, then no, I wouldn't say that, because they evidently do.

If you're asking me whether or not they're all down to how one's brain works, then yes, I do say the same. Take away the brain and the result is a corpse that has no personality or consciousness.

The historic Judeo/Christian of 'soul' is not fundamentally any different from those concepts.

Your objection is to a modern development, that sees soul as a distinct self contained, thing - but that's not what the biblical authors meant by the word.

 

[Vehementi Dominus]

Well, it is different, because they claim that once you die your soul lives on.

Those concepts can all be attributable to neural processes, one acts, behaves and thinks differently to everyone else because no one's upbringing or memories are identical, and everyone has different levels of chemicals affecting the brain than everyone else. If the brain dies, then one no longer has a personality, etc. This negates the need for the soul, because the brain can do everything the soul can allegedly do.

When you die, your brain dies and with it all of your memories, thoughts, personality, consciousness and beliefs.

 

[Jade Margery]

Interesting. I am curious though, what is to happen after the big resurrection? 'Cuz that's an awful lot of dead people, even if a lot of them get 'left behind'. I confess I don't know much about that subject. When everyone is resurrected, are they as they were when they died--old people old, babies still babies--or are they all about the same age? Or maybe they get to choose? And then what are they going to do for the rest of eternity?

These are serious questions, I'm afraid I don't know much about the climactic ending. Mostly I just read the introduction and then flip to random pages...