Something About Mary

Rev Randy · Apr 30, 2013

simonthezealot said:
You're trying to equate God incarnate with all humans and if all means all then the Lord must have sinned...You can't be so blind as to not be able to see how that attacks His divinity???
And how making others without sin detracts His glory by making others equivalent in Holy and pure righteousness...

I've read nothing except your post mentioning that the Lord sinned. Do you REALLY think that is RCC theology?

Rev Randy · Apr 30, 2013

Mikeb85 said:
This is definitely a cultural thing. Most cultures which are influenced by Orthodox Christian belief or Roman Catholic belief do greet each other by kissing each other on the cheeks...

And isn't it nice being peculiar in that way?

Rev Randy · Apr 30, 2013

simonthezealot said:
Valid points.
Dear Catholic, Do tell us how you see no worship of Mary in this?

I'll be glad to but first I would think it wise for you to define what you consider worship. By your definition it could be considered as such to you. By mine it isn't even close.
Rev. Randy's definition: The Divine Liturgy ultimately leading to the Eucharist.

Stryder06 · Apr 30, 2013

Rev Randy said:
I'll be glad to but first I would think it wise for you to define what you consider worship. By your definition it could be considered as such to you. By mine it isn't even close.
Rev. Randy's definition: The Divine Liturgy ultimately leading to the Eucharist.

Perhaps it would be best to see how the scripture defines worship ratger than to look at each person's personal definition.

Defensor Christi · Apr 30, 2013

Stryder06 said:
Perhaps it would be best to see how the scripture defines worship ratger than to look at each person's personal definition.

Did you read my response here: #321 ?

It's about 21st century definition vs. how the word was defined/used during the period of the writings...so in essence, Rev Randy is correct!!

Root of Jesse · Apr 30, 2013

simonthezealot said:
It was a comment directed at you, it's about the false doctrines forwarded on Mary and the (S)aints by your church.
The Mary of your church is not the Mary of Holy Scripture and the doctrines you've all forwarded deflect the glory away from God.

How you guys can not see that astounds me...

Oh, believe me, some people go overboard with Marian devotion, but they still don't worship Mary.

The doctrines are not false, and you cannot prove them to be so. You can only change the meaning of the scriptures that pertain, or say they don't apply.

It's like going "la, la, la can't hear you" with your fingers in your ears.

Rev Randy · Apr 30, 2013

Defensor Christi said:
Did you read my response here: #321 ?

It's about 21st century definition vs. how the word was defined/used during the period of the writings...so in essence, Rev Randy is correct!!

I tried the sing , sing and a sermon thing. Never saw worship in singing about how wonderful it will be for me in heaven. Now I still sing but a different tune.

LittleLambofJesus · Apr 30, 2013

Rev Randy said:
I tried the sing , sing and a sermon thing. Never saw worship in singing about how wonderful it will be for me in heaven. Now I still sing but a different tune.

And from what I heard, way out of tune also...

.

motherprayer · Apr 30, 2013

LittleLambofJesus said:
And from what I heard, way out of tune also...

.

Ya know, I thought Rev was my husband for about 5 minutes. My husband sings pretty good. Just sayin...

Stryder06 · Apr 30, 2013

LittleLambofJesus said:
Guess you must have missed this previous post of mine about that

Didn't miss it. I just can't figure out why you always ask me that after I've already told you how I view that parable.

WarriorAngel · Apr 30, 2013

Today's world doesnt know what community - love and veneration is about.

So they judge that which was always done - as tho somehow suddenly great reverence is now worship somehow.

Stryder06 · Apr 30, 2013

Defensor Christi said:
Did you read my response here: #321 ?

It's about 21st century definition vs. how the word was defined/used during the period of the writings...so in essence, Rev Randy is correct!!

Are we talking about the word worship? Because that word goes back to the beginning of time, sooooo it would seem like it be a bit hard to try to put a "period of time" definition on it that would be accurate unless you start at the beginning.

Root of Jesse · Apr 30, 2013

Stryder06 said:
Didn't miss it. I just can't figure out why you always ask me that after I've already told you how I view that parable.

None of Jesus' parables had any fiction in them. This one is even more real because someone in the parable has a name.

Revelation shows us that the saints in heaven are not dead. Our bodies die, but our souls live on, whether in heaven or hell.

Defensor Christi · Apr 30, 2013

Stryder06 said:
Are we talking about the word worship? Because that word goes back to the beginning of time, sooooo it would seem like it be a bit hard to try to put a "period of time" definition on it that would be accurate unless you start at the beginning.

Read my response first...then we will discuss.

motherprayer · Apr 30, 2013

WarriorAngel said:
Today's world doesnt know what community - love and veneration is about.

So they judge that which was always done - as tho somehow suddenly great reverence is now worship somehow.

Wow. That actually has some deep meaning to it. One thought that has come across my mind is how I feel every act of respect has been taken down a notch in priority. Like, what was once love is now like, what once was worship may now simply be veneration, which would actually say a lot about the worship of the average Christian.

Just thoughts that have come to mind as I watch videos of "worship" songs that really seem like dance music. I like the songs, I listen to them. But some of them aren't really worship songs. They make you want to dance, not fall on your face in the glory of who HE is.

Okay, veered WAY off topic. But it IS an interesting posit,,,

LittleLambofJesus · Apr 30, 2013

Stryder06 said:
Are we talking about the word worship? Because that word goes back to the beginning of time, sooooo it would seem like it be a bit hard to try to put a "period of time" definition on it that would be accurate unless you start at the beginning.

How bout in Genesis?:

Strong's Number H7812 matches the Hebrew שָׁחָה (shachah), which occurs 172 times in 166 verses in the Hebrew concordance
AV worship 99, bow 31, bow down 18, obeisance 9, reverence 5, fall down 3, themselves 2, stoop 1, crouch 1, misc 3

1st time used

Gen 18:2 So he lifted his eyes and looked, and behold, three men were standing by him; and when he saw [them], he ran from the tent door to meet them, and bowed himself to the ground,

1) to bow down
a) (Qal) to bow down
b) (Hiphil) to depress (fig)
c) (Hithpael)
1) to bow down, prostrate oneself
a) before superior in homage
b) before God in worship
c) before false gods
d) before angel

Rev Randy · Apr 30, 2013

LittleLambofJesus said:
And from what I heard, way out of tune also...

.

I did it professionally for a while but that's not saying much as so does Joe Cocker.
Joe Cocker - With a little help from my friends - YouTube

Rhamiel · Apr 30, 2013

motherprayer said:
Wow. That actually has some deep meaning to it. One thought that has come across my mind is how I feel every act of respect has been taken down a notch in priority. Like, what was once love is now like, what once was worship may now simply be veneration, which would actually say a lot about the worship of the average Christian.

Just thoughts that have come to mind as I watch videos of "worship" songs that really seem like dance music. I like the songs, I listen to them. But some of them aren't really worship songs. They make you want to dance, not fall on your face in the glory of who HE is.

Okay, veered WAY off topic. But it IS an interesting posit,,,

very good point
and I would agree with you that this is a problem for the average Christian
this is not a Protestant or Catholic or Orthodox issue, this is a problem for everyone

motherprayer · Apr 30, 2013

Rhamiel said:
very good point
and I would agree with you that this is a problem for the average Christian
this is not a Protestant or Catholic or Orthodox issue, this is a problem for everyone

Yea. It really says something about end times. I'm not well-versed in eschatology, but it just seems like things are getting less God-oriented and more everyone else oriented as time goes by.

I encounter attitudes from Christians I know in my life that amaze me. This girl at my church called me one day and said she had gotten in a fight with her boyfriend and "needed time to herself" so she wouldn't be at church. The sheer backwardness of that statement shocked me to silence for a second. I ended up running to her house and getting her lol and I told her, "You NEED to be here. There is something that God has JUST for you, you'll be glad you came." And she was, praise God. But it is a great example of how high He is on the average Christian's priority list. I want to worship Him, all day.

I think we could end all Sabbath debates, even, if we would realize that He wants it from us 24/7, not one day of the week.

I think non-Catholics would have a bit more respect for Catholics if they would just realize that Catholics DO have an honest, unselfish desire to serve Christ. And vice versa.

Mary is special. To those who pay homage to her memory, she deserves a special honor, IMO. Because at the end of the day, she CHOSE to obey. She could have walked away the day Gabriel came a'knocking. She bore our LORD! I pray He uses me one day in a way tantamount to the way He used her. It would be an honor.

seeingeyes · Apr 30, 2013

WarriorAngel said:
Today's world doesnt know what community - love and veneration is about.

So they judge that which was always done - as tho somehow suddenly great reverence is now worship somehow.

Hmm. I'm gonna have to disagree.

This is the same argument used about how people dress so casually today. The old timers remember when everyone wore suits and hats to church on Sunday, and for them it seems disrespectful when someone shows up in jeans. But to the youngster who shows up in jeans, he is dressed up. He doesn't even own a suit. He usually wears shorts.

If it is the case that 'way back then' the people of the church knew better how to show reverence, then we are seriously amiss, not only in the words that we use to address others and God, but also in the wearing of pants. We should be in robes like most of the generations before us.

Or it could just be that styles change.

And that should be no hindrance to the people of God, because our God uses the foolish things of the world to shame the wise. Our God isn't impressed with our many pretty words, or with what we're wearing or not wearing, or with whether we worship with old music or new, whether we dance or fall down.

Our God sees the heart.

Something About Mary

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