Some Questions.

Also when I mean everything, I mean EVERYTHING. The most important being hell, is hell a direct bi-product of your Gods plans? Was it a mistake, or was it Satan that made it, without Gods interference?

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God created everything in creation. Hell is a place devoid of God or any part of His Creation. That's what makes it Hell, or The Void or The Pit. In truth Hell is the absence of any part of God.

Does this differ drastically between the different christian religions?

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Their are People who believe that Hell is a place. they tend towards Older versions of christian tradition. Those who do, usually believe this is the devils kingdom.

Scripturally though it is more accurate to say the this world is the devils kingdom and Hell will be the dimension, place or the emptiness where all who do not know Jesus or Love God will be sent. This includes the devil. He is not being sent their to rule hell but to be cast out of creation like all of the rest of Hell's residents.

So hell does not exist? So if you go to "hell" you sieze to exist in any way?

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Hell is the absence of God, how does that equate in non existence?

Just like Darkness is the absence of light. Because light does exist in darkness, does this mean darkness does not exist for you as well?

Hell does exist and yes, God created it.

All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. John 1:3 The "him" in question is Jesus, who is God.

"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.' Matthew 25:41

Lutherin said:

So that means god did not create everything, since darkness exists? But you said god created everyting, so that means darkness had to be created by him?

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The whole light/darkness thing was to illustrate a point. in the presents of light darkness can not be present, but does that mean to you, it does not exist?

On top of which This still has not answered my original question, I originally asked How does the absences of the presents of something/someone mean that they don't exist?

Lutherin,

I also believe hell is a real place (and not just an absence of God) and that God created it. However, you may like to see what the Bible has to say on the matter. Just go here and search for "hell": Bible Gateway

Lutherin

Also visit - insightofgod.com - from people who have died and what they saw. Much of it seems credible as I compare to scripture (bible).

Jesus talked about hell more than heaven.

Correction: Jesus didn't talk about Hell more than heaven. But he did talk about Hell more than anyone else in the NT.

What did Satan do to get kicked out of heaven?

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More or less, He wanted to be God, and thought He could take power with His army of followers.

Is he meant to be punished in hell, or is he supposed to be running the joint?

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2Peter 2:
4For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment;

I believe It would be hard to run things if you were being held in a dungeon.



If you want to see Hell then ask God to show you the gates. It is from just seeing the Gates that you will begin to understand that Eternal separation From God and the rest of creation is far far worse that the hottest fire or burning sulfur could ever be. I believe these descriptions were used because of the emotion that is involved when one is being consumed by something like fire. The extreme panic and the desire to flee from this place or experience is what is being described when the bible uses "fire" to illustrate Hell. But again "Fire" is just the beginning of the torment. Once you have been fully enveloped by the void you realize this will be you existence forever, and then the last part of God's creation will be removed from you, and that will be the control you enjoy over your mind..

From this state no one could claim to be King, even if one did, no one else could acknowledge him. It would like being a dead king. even if you were a king you and all of your subjects are dead, so what are you really a king of?

Lutherin said:

Just want to know from you, too many different versions to look through.

1st Question: Did your God create everything?

Also when I mean everything, I mean EVERYTHING. The most important being hell, is hell a direct bi-product of your Gods plans? Was it a mistake, or was it Satan that made it, without Gods interference?

Does this differ drastically between the different christian religions?

I just want to find the bottom line to this. Need it for a school project.

Thanks in advance, more questions to come.

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God made everything, even hell.

John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

Later in this chapter we find out that the "Word" is Jesus Christ.

As Hammster pointed out, hell is a real place of eternal fire prepared for the devil and his followers. I don't know where people get the idea that hell is merely "the absence of God;" that is certainly not Biblical.

Ps. 139
1 O LORD, You have searched me and known me.
2 You know my sitting down and my rising up;
You understand my thought afar off.
3 You comprehend my path and my lying down,
And are acquainted with all my ways.
4 For there is not a word on my tongue,
But behold, O LORD, You know it altogether.
5 You have hedged me behind and before,
And laid Your hand upon me.
6 Such knowledge is too wonderful for me;
It is high, I cannot attain it.

7 Where can I go from Your Spirit?
Or where can I flee from Your presence?
8 If I ascend into heaven, You are there;
If I make my bed in hell, behold, You are there.
9 If I take the wings of the morning,
And dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea,
10 Even there Your hand shall lead me,
And Your right hand shall hold me.
11 If I say, “Surely the darkness shall fall on me,”
Even the night shall be light about me;
12 Indeed, the darkness shall not hide from You,
But the night shines as the day;
The darkness and the light are both alike to You.

Cool, next question:

What did Satan do to get kicked out of heaven? Is he meant to be punished in hell, or is he supposed to be running the joint?

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To describe the fall of Satan, Isaiah compared it to a certain king of Babylon-

Is. 14
12 “ How you are fallen from heaven,
O Lucifer, son of the morning!
How you are cut down to the ground,
You who weakened the nations!
13 For you have said in your heart:

‘ I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God;
I will also sit on the mount of the congregation
On the farthest sides of the north;
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds,
I will be like the Most High.’
15 Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol,
To the lowest depths of the Pit.

Satan will not "rule" in hell (the lake of fire), but will be tormented forever.

Rev. 20
7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

First off, the hell jesus talked about in Greek is defined as:

1) name Hades or Pluto, the god of the lower regions
2) Orcus, the nether world, the realm of the dead
3) later use of this word: the grave, death, hell


Notice that the later use of the word is what you guys are trying to imply, which is futile.


And "hell fire" that Jesus speaks of is the name of a valley SE in jerusalem where kids were thrown into the fire for Moloch. Only later was it referred to as a place for punishment. And Rev 20 does not talk about humans sinning and being cast into the lake of fire. Just satan and the false prophet.



But since christianity is rooted deeply in Judaism, lets see what they believe, because this can shed light on what is believed in old testament. So here is a little:

If a person sinned in this lifetime, as most of us do, then, to continue the radio analogy, we have serious interference. In order to restore the level of purity the soul had possessed before entering the physical world, it must undergo a degree of refinement commensurate to the degree which the body may have indulged itself. This means there is quite a bit of cleaning to be done. This cleaning process hurts, but is a spiritual and mental process designed not for retribution, but to allow one to truly enjoy his/her reward in Gan Eden.This cleaning process is called “Gehinom,” or, in the vernacular, “Hell.”


[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Not all souls merit Gehenom. It is for people who have done good but need to be purified. A handful of people are too evil for Gehenom, and they are punished eternally. Pharaoh is one example.[/FONT][/FONT]


[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]So, if Christianity is to argue this, they must argue it based on their foundation -- Judaism.
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First off, the hell jesus talked about in Greek is defined as:

1) name Hades or Pluto, the god of the lower regions
2) Orcus, the nether world, the realm of the dead
3) later use of this word: the grave, death, hell

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Micheal Moore much? You're taking one Greek religious interpretation of the Original Words Jesus would have used, and have applied that one word's meaning to the message of what Jesus had to say about Hell. When in fact Jesus used many words that we simply translate into the word Hell: Yee'va, Genhenna, Hades, and Sheol

If you look at the context in which scripture provides, Jesus speaks of Hell, and it supports the "Christian' definition of the word. Perhaps this is why the Greek meaning of the word was later Changed from it original interpretation to the third definition you have acknowledged. (to match the updated or Christian version of the word.)

None of the original definitions of the word Hell accurately described the new revelations Jesus was offering of that place. This is most likely why He started with a word(s) everyone could identify with, and then proceeded to expand the definition of that word.

Your explanation of the geek origins of the word does not take into account the new revelations of what was known as hell, that Jesus left in the NT. Jesus very plainly describes the "Christian" or new understanding of the word.

So, if Christianity is to argue this, they must argue it based on their foundation -- Judaism.

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we do acknowledge that everything inherently "Christian" has it's roots firmly planted in Judaism, but at the same time Christianity is not the same as Judaism. It is a continuation or an evolution of the religion through the revelations of Jesus the Christ. Because Christ taught a different Hell, we as Christians have to accept the and work off of the new revelations of Hell left by Christ.

Yes, the hell in there was taken from Greek, and even Josephus (jewsih historian) says it is a hard language to understand and the original writings were in Aramaic. So, you have to understand, Greek was NOT there language, so you must understand hell from the Jewish perspective as Greek was not their language. Jewish belief in Old testament is very important. You would not be wise to seperate Christianity from the Jewish beliefs of Old testament, that would be an entire religion void of the old testament which would be an entire new religion. Even Jesus came not to abolish the law, he said. You christians like to say how Jesus was the Messiah that fulfills the old testament, yet you treat it with such irreverrence and degrade its power. Just throw it out if you wish, but don't pretend it's Jewishness is irrelevant to you at some points, and not at others. What you face is this: Either God changed what hell/Shoel was for men with the New Testament, or else they still believed this and it wasn't conveyed as well as it could have been going to the Greek language.

Lemme ask this, why didn't God automatically send Eve and Adam to hell? According to paul, they passed sin to all men, can you think of anything worse to account for your deeds?

Hi Lutherin, here are my biblical answers to your questions.

1) Did your God create everything? Yes. Before creation only God existed, then God created everything, and nothing came into being apart from God. (John 1:1-3)

2) Did God create Hell? The term "hell" translates two different places described in the Bible. First we have "Hades" which is where the spirits of the lost are taken to upon physical death. (Luke 16:19-31) Next, after Christ returns, all the lost will be resurrected (with their spirits reunited with their restored bodies) and then they will undergo the Great White Throne Judgment. Then the lost will be thrown into the Lake of Fire (Revelation 20:11-15). The Lake of Fire is assumed to be located in a spiritual place called Gehenna. Both Hades and Gehenna are translated as "hell" in the King James Version of the Bible. Jesus said we should fear the One who can destroy both the spirit and the body in "hell" (actually Gehenna) (Luke 12:5).

3) Are Hades and the Lake of Fire the direct result of God's plans? Yes, see answer #1 above.

4) Was the creation of Hades and the Lake of Fire a mistake? No.

5) Did Satan make Hades and the Lake of Fire? No, see answer #1 above. The Lake of Fire was prepared for Satan, as the place where he will be tormented day and night forever. (Revelation 20:10)

6) Do the views differ drastically among the various Christian groups? Yes. The Bible does not give us a lot of information, so people have adopted various views based largely on speculation and inference.

7) What did Satan do to get kicked out of heaven? Revelation 12:9 says Satan was "thrown down" after "waging war in heaven." So it seems Satan rebelled against God.

8) Is Satan meant to be punished in hell, or is he supposed to be running the joint? Satan is meant to be punished, eternally tormented, in the Lake of Fire. See answer to #5.

So, you have to understand, Greek was NOT there language, so you must understand hell from the Jewish perspective as Greek was not their language.

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That was my point exactly. In Aramaic at the time there wasn't a word that Described Jesus's interpretation of Hell So He started with a known value like the Jewish or Greek word for Hell and then built on that word the new "Christian" understanding of that place. So in turn the new Greek understanding of Hell was changed from definition 1 to definition 3.

Jewish belief in Old testament is very important. You would not be wise to seperate Christianity from the Jewish beliefs of Old testament, that would be an entire religion void of the old testament which would be an entire new religion.

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I did not make the separation, the Apostle Paul did. As I said Christianity is firmly planted in Jewish roots, and we acknowledge that we are simply grafted into the covenant God made with the Jews. but at the same time we are not the same or we would all be known as Messianic Jews. Instead we are followers of Jesus Christ and as such there will be some differences between the old way of doing things and the new.

Jesus came not to abolish the law, he said.

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Which is 1/2 right. He came to full fill the Law which means He took the the old Law to is fullest meaning or interpretation. Which Changed the meaning in most cases. It is to these Changes and new responsibilities that separates Judaism and Christianity.

Either God changed what hell/Sheol was for men with the New Testament, or else they still believed this and it wasn't conveyed as well as it could have been going to the Greek language.

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Or Christ used existing knowledge or word to build on a more complete understanding of what Hell really is. Kinda like He does with the Law in Matt 5: 21"You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.' 22But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca, is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.

Again here He uses an existing term and completes the true meaning.

Where else besides Christ would Christians come up with the meaning of Hell?

Lemme ask this, why didn't God automatically send Eve and Adam to hell? According to paul, they passed sin to all men, can you think of anything worse to account for your deeds?

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Where does Paul say this?