Bryan Cotton
Junior Member
Just wanted to let you know I did read your response and I appreciate it. you post did help me.
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Not all churches of Christ teach against instruments. My own congregation, the largest individual CofC congregation in the world, has both instrumental and a Capella services.
The truth is, the CofC is a non-centralized grouping where each congregation is autonomous. It is often difficult to find an official list of what we believe because of this.
My bottom line was this. Since you say that JW's is the only ones who only expressingly prohibit birthdays, I take it that CoC does not. My point is, if CoC can say "don't use instruments in praise and worship because we are not authorized to use them," how can that condone celebrating birthdays or any non-biblical holdiays which is not authorized anywhere in the bible, OT or NT?
Romans 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let each man be fully assured in his own mind.
Not all churches of Christ teach against instruments. My own congregation, the largest individual CofC congregation in the world, has both instrumental and a Capella services.
The truth is, the CofC is a non-centralized grouping where each congregation is autonomous. It is often difficult to find an official list of what we believe because of this. I was raised in a non-instrumental CofC, so I know where their argument comes from - but when I grew up, I found it no longer made much sense to me. DRA and others on this board can explain their stance well from a biblical point of view, but to me it's an argument put together at two ends but which doesn't meet in the middle - it requires a pretty large leap of logic. You have indicated the leap yourself - the CofC includes many things in worship that are not explicitly authorized and use this foggy notion of "expediency" to justify them.
Note to DRA and the others: I really don't want to get into another debate on this subject. It's worn me out over the years. I just want to give Bryan a wider overall view of where the CofC sits on this subject.
... Now we'd just have to attack the other countless non-biblical things christians do, perhaps in CoC, that are not specifically "authorized" by God.
But I do keep in mind DRA's comment on specific and generic authority.
No need to debate. If the world's largest individual CofC congregation practices has both instrumental and a capella services, then it's an open-and-shut case the Lord accepts either, right? After all, everyone knows there is safety following the masses, right?
1 Corinthians 6:12 says (KJV), "All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient [Pretty foggy, huh?]: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any."
So glad your post helped tie up those loose ends. I have to admit, at first I thought it was just another one of those hit-and-run posts.
So that gives us a pass to treat any day how we will if we are assured in our own mine, even if it's not "authorized" by God. But with instruments, there's no such "Romans 14:5" verse for it so we can't use instruments while we praise and worship?
if that's what you're saying, then that works... for specifc days. Good quote. Now we'd just have to attack the other countless non-biblical things christians do, perhaps in CoC, that are not specifically "authorized" by God.
But I do keep in mind DRA's comment on specific and generic authority.
The expediency issue was discussed at length between Apollos1 and I in this thread. Personally, I think that the use given by the CofC takes it out of context.
I understand the size of the congregation hardly matters in terms of right and wrong; but I did want to stress to him that we represent a significant portion of the CofC, we aren't some lone, rebellious congregation.
p.s. I do apologize for not coming back to finish our discussions. wmssid pretty much ran me out of here - I had very little desire to read his stuff, and he was dominating the board.
So, why persist with this unfounded requirement for "specific" authority?
- DRA - said:My bottom line is that when God specifies what He wants, that is specifically what we should do.
Well, you're the one that brought up the birthday..... I just gave you an answer.
BTW, just out of curiosity...how's the instrumental thing working out over there? Is the membership increasing as a result? Is it still being used as simply an outreach tool? It it more performance-oriented or participant-oriented?
Not looking to attack, just curious. Haven't heard anything about it since 2007.
Sometimes you don't want the growth. If growth means "compromise moral absolutes", forget it.It's not all about growth. Experts said we could grow by 50% in a year if we just remove the "church of Christ" from the sign out front, and they have refused to do so.
Just visiting.
I'm currently with Assemblies of God, but I used to belong to a Disciples of Christ church, so I can relate to the RM thing. It was a good church, and if I were looking for a church now, I would definitely still consider DoC. And yes, my DoC church had instrumental music. I wasn't even aware of it being an issue until I browsed this forum. And actually, I don't think it ever was a DoC issue. That seems to be uniquely a CoC concern.
Thanks, I wasn't aware of the history. FWIW, I don't remember my former DoC church as being excessively liberal. They seemed pretty solid on all the basic doctrines that define Christianity.Actually, instrumental music (IC) isn't a current concern with the DoC, but it is a part of their history. IC was one of several issues that caused the division within the CoC that gave rise to the CC. Later, as I understand it, the CC further divided and gave rise to the DoC. Each division, as I understand it, led to further liberalism - that is, being too broad based on the teachings of God's word.
Thanks, I wasn't aware of the history. FWIW, I don't remember my former DoC church as being excessively liberal. They seemed pretty solid on all the basic doctrines that define Christianity.
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