Some pieces belonging to the salvation puzzle, how do we put them together?

[PrincetonGuy]

Luke 10: 25. And a lawyer stood up and put Him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?”
26. And He said to him, “What is written in the Law? How does it read to you?”
27. And he answered, “YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND; AND YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.”
28. And He said to him, “You have answered correctly; DO THIS AND YOU WILL LIVE.”

Luke 18:18. A ruler questioned Him, saying, “Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?”
19. And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone.
20. “You know the commandments, ‘DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, DO NOT MURDER, DO NOT STEAL, DO NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER.’ ‘
21. And he said, “All these things I have kept from my youth.”
22. When Jesus heard this, He said to him, “One thing you still lack; sell all that you possess and distribute it to the poor, and you shall have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”

Acts 2:37. Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brethren, what shall we do?”
38. Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”

Romans 3:28. For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

Eph. 2:8. For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9. not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

James 2:21. Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?
22. You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected;
23. and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS,” and he was called the friend of God.
24. You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. (NASB, 1995)

 

[RobertZ]

I give up. I am so worn out, so tired, so exausted of trying to make sense of salvation. I see evidence that its free and then I see evidence that something else must be added to it.

If all you had to do is just believe then why didnt Jesus say that to the rich young ruler? instead it seems that he put a condition on him recieving salvation? I did not think that there were any conditions? how is this a free gift then?

Honestly, the more I try to understand the more twisted up things become and the further I find myself from God. I guess im not supposed to understand, I guess I really am a freaking reprobate who has figured out that he is one and cant obtain salvation because it doesnt make sense to him.

It blows my mind how easy salvation comes to some and how difficult it is for a few others. I guess if you are elect then its simple, if not it will just drive you insane. I hate the day I was ever born, I hate it.

 

[dies-l]

Faith always leads to action. If a person has faith in money, that person will seek more money. If a person has faith in God, that person will seek God and will live to obey His commands. To choose to willfully disobey demonstrates that one does not have faith. But, we are not saved by our actions; we are saved by the faith that motivates our actions. IOW, to put it rather crudely, I am not saved because I behave; I behave because I am saved.

 

[Hammster]

Not sure what the issue is.

 

[PrincetonGuy]

I give up. I am so worn out, so tired, so exausted of trying to make sense of salvation. I see evidence that its free and then I see evidence that something else must be added to it.

If all you had to do is just believe then why didnt Jesus say that to the rich young ruler? instead it seems that he put a condition on him recieving salvation? I did not think that there were any conditions? how is this a free gift then?

Honestly, the more I try to understand the more twisted up things become and the further I find myself from God. I guess im not supposed to understand, I guess I really am a freaking reprobate who has figured out that he is one and cant obtain salvation because it doesnt make sense to him.

It blows my mind how easy salvation comes to some and how difficult it is for a few others. I guess if you are elect then its simple, if not it will just drive you insane. I hate the day I was ever born, I hate it.

Robert,

Jesus loves you and He died for your sins. Do the best that you can to believe that and act like it, and the day will come when Jesus will say to you, “Well done, good and faithful servant.”

 

[earthen_vessel]

Jesus is the fullfillment of the Law. belief in Him gives us righteousness, the ability for good works through the Holy Spirit, and perfection.

Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law. Romans 3:31

 

[earthen_vessel]

I give up. I am so worn out, so tired, so exausted of trying to make sense of salvation. I see evidence that its free and then I see evidence that something else must be added to it.

If all you had to do is just believe then why didnt Jesus say that to the rich young ruler? instead it seems that he put a condition on him recieving salvation? I did not think that there were any conditions? how is this a free gift then?

Honestly, the more I try to understand the more twisted up things become and the further I find myself from God. I guess im not supposed to understand, I guess I really am a freaking reprobate who has figured out that he is one and cant obtain salvation because it doesnt make sense to him.

It blows my mind how easy salvation comes to some and how difficult it is for a few others. I guess if you are elect then its simple, if not it will just drive you insane. I hate the day I was ever born, I hate it.

Robert, I don't fully comprehend salvation. it is so simple, so glorious, so amazing, so graceful that I don't think any human mind can comprehend it. even the angels desire to comprehend God's wonderous salvation. (1 Peter 1:10-12)

but we have a childlike faith. regardless of our confusion or our inability to understand God; we trust God. and we know that He will save those that believe (no other condition).

that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. Romans 10:9

if you believe, then you will be saved. if your heart doubts even though you believe, you are still saved.

For if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and knows all things. 1 John 3:20

 

[dies-l]

.

It blows my mind how easy salvation comes to some and how difficult it is for a few others. I guess if you are elect then its simple, if not it will just drive you insane. I hate the day I was ever born, I hate it.

Honestly, I think that your struggle is a good thing. I am more concerned about those who have accepted a theology of easy salvation than I am about those who really struggle with it. Scripture instructs us to "work out [our] salvation with fear and trembling." If it was really as easy as saying a prayer and "really meaning it", like some people seem to believe, then this advice would make no sense. Salvation is about a changed life; it is not about getting our "get into heaven free" pass. I suspect that most of the people about whom you say salvation comes easy are in the camp who believe that it is all about saying a prayer so you can go to heaven when you die. These people are truly missing out on the abundant life that Jesus promises, and I believe that they are likely in for a surprise at the resurrection as well. Keep struggling and asking God for direction, and He will be faithful to you.

 

[dinomight]

These are all great answers, and I completely agree. I think we become so focused on separating ourselves from "salvation by works" that we dilute the meaning of the whole thing. The relationship between faith and works is a beautiful thing that is hard to understand sometimes. I certainly don't claim to have it all figured out. What I do understand is that a true faith in the salvation freely offered through the blood of Christ is a thing that leads us to yearn to obey and follow the Lord, and the Holy Spirit gives us the ability to do that very thing. I do see it as a process that continues throughout life, in which we become more and more attuned to the will of Christ as our relationship with Him deepens. The Holy Spirit will always give us the strength to do what God requires of us.

 

[PrincetonGuy]

Let’s add two more pieces to the puzzle,

Matt. 25:19. “Now after a long time the master of those slaves *came and *settled accounts with them.
20. “The one who had received the five talents came up and brought five more talents, saying, ‘Master, you entrusted five talents to me. See, I have gained five more talents.’
21. “His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful slave. You were faithful with a few things, I will put you in charge of many things; enter into the joy of your master.’
22. “Also the one who had received the two talents came up and said, ‘Master, you entrusted two talents to me. See, I have gained two more talents.’
23. “His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful slave. You were faithful with a few things, I will put you in charge of many things; enter into the joy of your master.’
24. “And the one also who had received the one talent came up and said, ‘Master, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you did not sow and gathering where you scattered no seed.
25. ‘And I was afraid, and went away and hid your talent in the ground. See, you have what is yours.’
26. “But his master answered and said to him, ‘You wicked, lazy slave, you knew that I reap where I did not sow and gather where I scattered no seed.
27. ‘Then you ought to have put my money in the bank, and on my arrival I would have received my money back with interest.
28. ‘Therefore take away the talent from him, and give it to the one who has the ten talents.’
29. “For to everyone who has, more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away.
30. “Throw out the worthless slave into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” (NASB, 1995)

Matt. 25:31. “But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne.
32. “All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats;
33. and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left.
34. “Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
35. ‘For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in;
36. naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.’
37. “Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink?
38. ‘And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You?
39. ‘When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’
40. “The King will answer and say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.’
41. “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;
42. for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink;
43. I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.’
44. “Then they themselves also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?’
45. “Then He will answer them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’
46. “These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” (NASB, 1995)

 

[PrincetonGuy]

Whoops!

 

[Hammster]

What puzzle?

 

[nhisname]

I give up. I am so worn out, so tired, so exausted of trying to make sense of salvation. I see evidence that its free and then I see evidence that something else must be added to it.

If all you had to do is just believe then why didnt Jesus say that to the rich young ruler? instead it seems that he put a condition on him recieving salvation? I did not think that there were any conditions? how is this a free gift then?

Honestly, the more I try to understand the more twisted up things become and the further I find myself from God. I guess im not supposed to understand, I guess I really am a freaking reprobate who has figured out that he is one and cant obtain salvation because it doesnt make sense to him.

It blows my mind how easy salvation comes to some and how difficult it is for a few others. I guess if you are elect then its simple, if not it will just drive you insane. I hate the day I was ever born, I hate it.

It looks to me like that all you need is FAITH. God said it in his word, believe by faith. You cannot please God without faith. All God asks is your faith in him to deliver every promise in his word to us. People are always wanting tangible proof of God, the Holy scriptures are it. God is spirit something we can't see but by faith in and believing his word of truth we are able to communicate with him through the Holy Spirit. And that's important.

 

[nhisname]

Luke 10: 25. And a lawyer stood up and put Him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?”
26. And He said to him, “What is written in the Law? How does it read to you?”
27. And he answered, “YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND; AND YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.”
28. And He said to him, “You have answered correctly; DO THIS AND YOU WILL LIVE.”

Luke 18:18. A ruler questioned Him, saying, “Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?”
19. And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone.
20. “You know the commandments, ‘DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, DO NOT MURDER, DO NOT STEAL, DO NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER.’ ‘
21. And he said, “All these things I have kept from my youth.”
22. When Jesus heard this, He said to him, “One thing you still lack; sell all that you possess and distribute it to the poor, and you shall have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”

Acts 2:37. Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brethren, what shall we do?”
38. Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”

Romans 3:28. For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

Eph. 2:8. For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9. not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

James 2:21. Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?
22. You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected;
23. and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS,” and he was called the friend of God.
24. You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. (NASB, 1995)

Faith comes before works always.

 

[dies-l]

Faith comes before works always.

Does faith exist apart from works?

 

[dinomight]

Does faith exist apart from works?

I think when we take a few verses about justification by faith and not works, it can seem like works have no place in the equation; but, when we see the verses that talk about the great importance of works, the two become highly intertwined.

I don't think true faith exists without some form of works. The words of Jesus and James in particular seem to make that abundantly clear, as they have been quoted throughout this discussion.

 

[JustAsIam77]

I think when we take a few verses about justification by faith and not works, it can seem like works have no place in the equation; but, when we see the verses that talk about the great importance of works, the two become highly intertwined.

I don't think true faith exists without some form of works. The words of Jesus and James in particular seem to make that abundantly clear, as they have been quoted throughout this discussion.

You raise an interesting point. Works follow faith, but who is to judge how many works and to what extent? It's a slippery slope once we go down that path. Faith saves, works are a natural extension of faith, however, not the deciding factor in salvation, the result is merely crowns to be given in heaven, some more, some less.

 

[dinomight]

You raise an interesting point. Works follow faith, but who is to judge how many works and to what extent? It's a slippery slope once we go down that path. Faith saves, works are a natural extension of faith, however, not the deciding factor in salvation, the result is merely crowns to be given in heaven, some more, some less.

A slippery slope indeed. I think it always comes back to a desire to serve the Lord as well as possible, as a result of our faith and our love for Him. The idea seems to be that the works are an evidence of sincere love of Christ. We should do good things, because Jesus did good things, and we're supposed to be like Him. That's what it is to be Christ's brother or sister, and to be a child of God. I never would want to try to quantify how many works a person must do, or even what particular things they should do, to be considered a truly saved person....Jesus knows what is in our hearts, and that is what matters the most.

 

[dies-l]

You raise an interesting point. Works follow faith, but who is to judge how many works and to what extent?

God

It's a slippery slope once we go down that path.

Not a slippery slope at all when we realize that it is not our job to judge others.

Faith saves, works are a natural extension of faith, however, not the deciding factor in salvation, the result is merely crowns to be given in heaven, some more, some less.

The idea that there exists a such thing as faith without works is a dangerous and unbiblical concept. The OP has already pointed to several passages of Scripture that make this point abundantly clear (as well as the follow up post about Matthew 25). Faith, which by definition implies works, is the means by which we are saved. We also need to be careful about how we define salvation; I don't see much at all in Scripture that it is about "going to heaven when we die." (not that this is necessarily what you are saying). It is about living life abundantly and eternally, which begins when we begin to live in faith, not when we die.

Sadly, too many Christians believe that faith is nothing more than mentally assenting to some sort of doctrinal statement. Nothing in Scripture suggests that this is what faith is. This causes tons of unnecessary confusion and false assurance for those who think that the goal of Christianity is to obtain a coveted "golden ticket" into heaven someday.