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Some People Have No Idea What They're Saying

FSTDT

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Its only natural that some people form opinions on ethical questions, such as on the permissibility of abortion or gay marriage, but too often I see some people who say things that are just bizarre, as if they weren't actually reading the words they were typing.

Here's one example of just such a "do you even know what you're saying" catchphrase that comes up all the time:
I don't believe in abortion, not even in cases of rape, because why should the baby be punished for the sins of the father.​
Think about that one for just one second: where did the whole idea that abortions are a kind of punishment come from? I don't think in the entire history of the world, there has ever been a rape victim who has said, "you know, getting raped the was worst thing that has ever happened to me, and someone needs to pay for that crime... I guess I'll punish the baby, that makes perfect sense!" -- its never happened once. The catchphrase itself is just an emotionally loaded buzzword that describes precisely zero people on the planet, and it is amazing that anyone could take it seriously.

Here's another:
Gay marriage is not about civil rights, gay marriage is about destroying Christian civilization as we know it!​
Arrrrruuuuuugggg!!! That was just my brain trying to leap out of my mouth and hide under the covers from that one, because its just absolutely absurd to all possible degrees. Who actually believes that gay people wake up and say to themselves "this civilization thing is such a pain, I think it needs to be destroyed... but how to do it? Should I use guns? Missles? A supervirus? Naaah, too ineffective, I think I'll kiss my boyfriend in the park, that'll really crumble civilization".

Some people go so far as to say that homosexuality will cause civilization to turn to decay and turn to rubble. Arrrrrruuuuugggggg!!! Oh, sorry, that was my brain again. Anyway, how exactly does homosexuality turn societies to rubble? Does homosexuality give off vibes that causes cement to turn to ash, or does it cause some kind of radiation that causes houses to lose their structual integrity and collapse in on themselves?

No one has ever explained what it means for homosexuality to cause civilization to crumble, that phrase has the most absurb literal interpretation, and it has no metaphorical interpretation whatsoever. Moreover, do you have any idea how wildly, fantastically, laughably unbelievable the idea of a worldwide anti-Christian conspiracy of homosexuals is?


Here's another one:
I oppose gay marriage, because I am defending marriage!​
This is another one of those bizarre phrases that people use all the time, but it has absolutely no meaning whatsoever. No one has ever explained what it means to defend marriage, its just a catchphrase without any definite meaning behind it.

By defending marriage, does it mean making sure the definition of marriage never gets changed? Well, some people actually use that reason, but then my thought is "do you have ANY idea what you're saying?". How on earth is it a moral imperative to protect something as abstract as a definition? What if people went around defending definitions all the time, by standing outside of the Merriam-Webster publishing company and demanding that no new edition of the collegiate unabridged dictionary be produced, because revising abstract definitions incurs some kind of moral wrong? Hopefully you can see where the absurdity is coming from.

But maybe its not the definition, maybe its what the definition symbolizes? Of course, this is yet another perfectly nonsensical statement, because no one has ever explained on what basis abstract symbols need to be protected (or what they're being protected from). But lets say that, ignoring the fact that "destroying a the symbol" is a phrase with no meaningful connection to the real world, homosexual marriage does destroy that symbol somehow someway... whatever symbol is destroyed, a superior symbol is created in its place. Now the definition of marriage refers to a superior symbol (whatever that means), and shouldn't we all be aiming for that?

Of course, let's take the phrase at its literal value. The literal meaning of "destroying the institution of marriage" occurs when no one ever gets married -- but wait, the problem with gay marriage is that it increases the number of marriage. Drat! It doesn't destroy marriage at all. Curses!

The phrase "defening marriage" doesn't have any meaning at all, or at best whatever meaning we can derive from it is absurd. You have to ask, do the people who use this line actually have an idea what it means?



I've singled out those three statements above because they're so common, but practically any political platitude, catchphrase, slogan, or anything has absolutely no meaning in the real world. Especially when those platitudes try to speak on behalf of the opponents, then it all goes downhill.

People get so caught up in towing the party line that they have no idea what they're saying, sometimes with humorous results.
 

levi501

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I agree with your post. Well said. Nonsensical catch phrases are used to rally those that haven't given the topics proper thought.

One thing...
FSTDT said:
I don't believe in abortion, not even in cases of rape, because why should the baby be punished for the sins of the father.
Punish can mean to injure or harm.
So this statement isn't quite as nonsensical as it might seem.

And honestly I find those that hold this viewpoint(although I disagree) to be far more consistent than those that want to make allowances. The discussion is whether a fetus by its nature has a right to live inside another without their permission. Their right to life shouldn't have anything to do with whether sex was consensual... otherwise you reduce the discussion down to competing non-choices... the woman's non-choice to be pregnant and the fetus's non-choice to be conceived.
 
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faster_jackrabbit

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levi501 said:
I agree with your post.
One thing...

Punish can mean to injure or harm.
Well, perhaps, but do people mean it in that sense?
the dictionary said:
pun·ish
v. pun·ished, pun·ish·ing, pun·ish·es
v. tr.

1. To subject to a penalty for an offense, sin, or fault.
2. To inflict a penalty for (an offense).
3. To handle roughly; hurt: My boots were punished by our long trek through the desert.
I would think that meanings 1 and 2 would be more applicable, and both are the result of an offense.
 
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faster_jackrabbit

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rebelEnigma said:
"God does not exist" probably takes the cake, though...
Few atheists actually say that, though. It's the position of the strong atheist. Most of us are of the weak variety, who say "we do not believe that god exists."
 
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Spherical Time

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faster_jackrabbit said:
Few atheists actually say that, though. It's the position of the strong atheist. Most of us are of the weak variety, who say "we do not believe that god exists."
I'm a strong atheist, but I freely admit that I have no physical evidence for that belief. I do find certain arguments persuasive though, which is why I categorize myself as such.
 
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Brennin

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FSTDT said:
Its only natural that some people form opinions on ethical questions, such as on the permissibility of abortion or gay marriage, but too often I see some people who say things that are just bizarre, as if they weren't actually reading the words they were typing.

Here's one example of just such a "do you even know what you're saying" catchphrase that comes up all the time:
I don't believe in abortion, not even in cases of rape, because why should the baby be punished for the sins of the father.​

Even though I do not espouse that pov, I believe it is legitimate. If one believes life begins at conception, then the fact that the woman was raped has no bearing on the status of the fetus as a person deserving protection.
 
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FSTDT

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Fledge said:
"There are no absolutes" is another example of a catch phrase that some people spit out without thinking too hard about...
Self-referential paradoxes are often the least interesting, they usually result through quirks in our language rather than indicating some forsight in thinking. "There are no absolutes", "This sentence is false", "I am lying now", and so on.


rebel_enigma said:
"God does not exist" probably takes the cake, though...
Go derail someone else's thread.
 
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wblastyn

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I think some people *cough*fundies*cough* live in some fantasy world where everything is as the Bible literally says it is. For example, in their world the earth is 6000 years old, dinosaur fossils were planted by the devil, the entired earth was flooded, gays are evil pedophiles with AIDS, who can be cured if they accept Jesus, and abortionists are evil women who "kill" their babies on a whim, and if they had Jesus they wouldn't need to abort, even though their child is the product of rape and going through the process of pregnancy is enough to make the mother want to kill herself. etc.

I realise the irony in this statement given that I'm only 20 and have just begun to experience some of the "Real World" for myself. But the limited experience that I have had has told me that you can't just accept something as being literally true just because the Bible says it. I just don't understand how people manage to make it into their 40's and 50's and still continue to live in this magical fantasy land, that completely contradicts reality.
 
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outlaw

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FSTDT said:
Its only natural that some people form opinions on ethical questions, such as on the permissibility of abortion or gay marriage, but too often I see some people who say things that are just bizarre, as if they weren't actually reading the words they were typing.


Here's one example of just such a "do you even know what you're saying" catchphrase that comes up all the time:
I don't believe in abortion, not even in cases of rape, because why should the baby be punished for the sins of the father.​
Think about that one for just one second: where did the whole idea that abortions are a kind of punishment come from? I don't think in the entire history of the world, there has ever been a rape victim who has said, "you know, getting raped the was worst thing that has ever happened to me, and someone needs to pay for that crime... I guess I'll punish the baby, that makes perfect sense!" -- its never happened once. The catchphrase itself is just an emotionally loaded buzzword that describes precisely zero people on the planet, and it is amazing that anyone could take it seriously.


Here's another:
Gay marriage is not about civil rights, gay marriage is about destroying Christian civilization as we know it!​
Arrrrruuuuuugggg!!! That was just my brain trying to leap out of my mouth and hide under the covers from that one, because its just absolutely absurd to all possible degrees. Who actually believes that gay people wake up and say to themselves "this civilization thing is such a pain, I think it needs to be destroyed... but how to do it? Should I use guns? Missles? A supervirus? Naaah, too ineffective, I think I'll kiss my boyfriend in the park, that'll really crumble civilization".

Some people go so far as to say that homosexuality will cause civilization to turn to decay and turn to rubble. Arrrrrruuuuugggggg!!! Oh, sorry, that was my brain again. Anyway, how exactly does homosexuality turn societies to rubble? Does homosexuality give off vibes that causes cement to turn to ash, or does it cause some kind of radiation that causes houses to lose their structual integrity and collapse in on themselves?

No one has ever explained what it means for homosexuality to cause civilization to crumble, that phrase has the most absurb literal interpretation, and it has no metaphorical interpretation whatsoever. Moreover, do you have any idea how wildly, fantastically, laughably unbelievable the idea of a worldwide anti-Christian conspiracy of homosexuals is?



Here's another one:
I oppose gay marriage, because I am defending marriage!​
This is another one of those bizarre phrases that people use all the time, but it has absolutely no meaning whatsoever. No one has ever explained what it means to defend marriage, its just a catchphrase without any definite meaning behind it.

By defending marriage, does it mean making sure the definition of marriage never gets changed? Well, some people actually use that reason, but then my thought is "do you have ANY idea what you're saying?". How on earth is it a moral imperative to protect something as abstract as a definition? What if people went around defending definitions all the time, by standing outside of the Merriam-Webster publishing company and demanding that no new edition of the collegiate unabridged dictionary be produced, because revising abstract definitions incurs some kind of moral wrong? Hopefully you can see where the absurdity is coming from.

But maybe its not the definition, maybe its what the definition symbolizes? Of course, this is yet another perfectly nonsensical statement, because no one has ever explained on what basis abstract symbols need to be protected (or what they're being protected from). But lets say that, ignoring the fact that "destroying a the symbol" is a phrase with no meaningful connection to the real world, homosexual marriage does destroy that symbol somehow someway... whatever symbol is destroyed, a superior symbol is created in its place. Now the definition of marriage refers to a superior symbol (whatever that means), and shouldn't we all be aiming for that?

Of course, let's take the phrase at its literal value. The literal meaning of "destroying the institution of marriage" occurs when no one ever gets married -- but wait, the problem with gay marriage is that it increases the number of marriage. Drat! It doesn't destroy marriage at all. Curses!

The phrase "defening marriage" doesn't have any meaning at all, or at best whatever meaning we can derive from it is absurd. You have to ask, do the people who use this line actually have an idea what it means?



I've singled out those three statements above because they're so common, but practically any political platitude, catchphrase, slogan, or anything has absolutely no meaning in the real world. Especially when those platitudes try to speak on behalf of the opponents, then it all goes downhill.

People get so caught up in towing the party line that they have no idea what they're saying, sometimes with humorous results.

You forgot some of my favorites:
God made Adam and Eve…not Adam and Steve

And the moronic:
“Gays already have equal rights…they have the right to marry someone of the opposite sex, same as anyone else.”

The completely dishonest:
“There is no comparison between interracial marriages and same sex marriages”

And the truly hateful catchphrase:
“love the sinner, hate the sin”
 
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ChristianCenturion

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Spherical Time said:
I'm a strong atheist, but I freely admit that I have no physical evidence for that belief. I do find certain arguments persuasive though, which is why I categorize myself as such.

FWIW and in a certain sense, verse 41 reflects how Atheists aren't as offensive as those that claim to be faithful by self declaration, but act in contradiction.

John 9:35-41
35Jesus heard that they had thrown him out, and when he found him, he said, "Do you believe in the Son of Man?"

36"Who is he, sir?" the man asked. "Tell me so that I may believe in him."
37Jesus said, "You have now seen him; in fact, he is the one speaking with you."
38Then the man said, "Lord, I believe," and he worshiped him.
39Jesus said, "For judgment I have come into this world, so that the blind will see and those who see will become blind."
40Some Pharisees who were with him heard him say this and asked, "What? Are we blind too?" 41Jesus said, "If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains.
 
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