Some courting advice...

[AndrewD88]

I really felt like God was calling me to share this with someone. I have been courting a girl named Elizabeth for 3 months and one day now, and every time we pray (every day, on the phone or together) God answers a new prayer for us. We have had the most amazing summer simply because we continue to pray.

We have been planning our futures, we are going to college together and we want to get engaged in the second year of college, however, everytime we pray, we have asked for something.

We have asked, that if it is Gods will, to break us up. To tear us apart. We call this "leaving the door open" for God to come in and give us directions, through prayer, and so far God has shown us everything other than a break up. Though I know that the future holds so much, I am confident God is working so well with us because we have chosen to lay our relationship completely in his hands. That's all I wanted to say, maybe some of you other courting couples could consider a similar prayer? Let me know what you think or PM me, it has been really amazing!

 

[invisiblebabe]

I'm glad it is going so well for you.

Unfortunately, when I started college I did not have such a great experience. My ex fiance and I prayed a lot, and we were great together for five months... and then in the sixth month, God decided to break us up. Unfortunately, the ex fiance chose to abuse me during that time, and I still have a lot of garbage to deal with because of his sins.

We are to seek God because He is ultimately good, not because He will necessarily give us good things.

God bless
-Kayli
21/F/INTJ

 

[AndrewD88]

My goodness, I'm sorry to hear that. I hope that everything turns out ok, and just continue to pray for your ex-fiance' in that he may do some soul searching. God bless you!

 

[Inperfected]

Um... I'm not sure how to say this quite... but is not courting for people who are able to soonly able to get married?

At 16, you really need to take a step back, you miten't be engaged yet, but you in all means are acting that way....

Be careful, so many people get hurt this way.

 

[AndrewD88]

I believe you are not completely familiar with the grounds that courting rests on. Courting is a delicate process of friendship. There is nothing in courting that completely suggests marriage, or anything close to it, but actually builds up to it in sections. It also suggests that courting is better for teenagers close to God because it builds into an "intimate friendship" under God. By doing this, you move slowly into different areas of a relationship, putting spiritual needs before physical and emotional needs. We also run our relationship based on a courting book called "Choosing God's Best". Check it out on Google, it's a fantastic guide to courting and it has many different explanations of the different steps in courting.

In other words, we would be taking a step too far if we were to say that we are going to get married now. I mean duh, that is WAY too far ahead. Right now, we are experiencing many of the things God wants us to, we only hold hands and we only side hug, and we pray every day. We spend alot of time reading the bible and learning about God together. All in all, we are essentially professing our faith to God together and doing that in a couple-like manner. We by no means care to express our care for marriage since thoughts of such an act are so far off. We do hold some certain care for our future, however, since at this point we will both be attending the same college.

And, like I said, we have left the door open. We aren't afraid for God to end our relationship if it is what he so desires for in his plans. We simply know that God is and has called us together for a purpose and whether that purpose is either to engage someday and get married, or for us to court through high school, we do not know yet. What we do know is that every day, God talks to us and shows us His plans. It's not only a great way to build a friendship, but it also strengthens your faith in God.

But thankyou for your open honesty, accountability is a great thing to have, especially in a courting relationship.

 

[Leanna]

Well, my high school boyfriend and I prayed something similar, I almost forgot, that if it was His will to break us up that He would. I still have it in my teenage journals. But really, how do you expect that to happen? It was absolutely God's will for us to not date then but we were not listening because we didn't want to hear it. Maybe if you are praying the same prayer you know in your heart of hearts you shouldn't be dating either.

 

[AndrewD88]

Well see, that's the thing. We are praying that prayer because we are keeping EVERYTHING in God's hands, because if we simply assume that God has meant us to be together for the rest of our lives and something happens, it will hurt more. We are very sure of ourselves in this relationship, we have added that to our daily prayer because we are devoted to leaving the door completely wide open. It could go either way, I suppose.

But, everything in our relationship has gone great and all our prayers have been answered, so God hasn't shown any signs that he plans to break us apart We will continue to pray, bottom line!

 

[Leanna]

Well personally I think non married couples have no business praying together. It is not appropriate for your personal relationship with God to be intertwined with someone you are not married to, its not healthy. So if you pray about it separately thats one thing....

This sounds pretty serious, I would simply advise not spending TOO MUCH time together because there is no purpose in investing too much in the relationship at this point, but to wait until you are closer to marrying age, otherwise if you spend a lot of time together even if it is "up to God" it will still hurt you...

 

[AndrewD88]

Well, I appreciate your honesty and your advice. I suppose we will see where God takes us, I will be sure to keep you informed Thanks for the advice again, God Bless!

 

[Inperfected]

we want to get engaged in the second year of college

There is nothing in courting that completely suggests marriage

I'm sorry did i miss something! Really i want to know did i?

Do you know what engagement means? It means "planning a marriage" or so many hear seem to think... YET you are saying that nothing in courting suggests marriage.

Mate, read your first post again... in around um 3-4 years (i suspect) you want to get engaged which leads to marriage... You have just told me something then spoken straight against it..

And point 2... Read the book Boy meets Girl by Joshua Harris... Very good point in it. Its partly goes along the lines of its unfair on the girl to date before you can realistically (soon) be looking at marriage...

" Courtship is about open and honest exploration of each others lives and families leading up to engagement and marriage. Courtship is about marriage -- you court in order to see if there is any reason why you shouldn't get married. There is no romantic interaction until after the commitment to marriage."
from "Dating Vs Courtship at polynate.net books.

As you see it leads up to engagement and marriage, i mean WHY in earth would you court if it wasn't wanted to lead to marriage


"Courtship, as practiced today, is often just another form of dating. It still involves actively being on the lookout for someone to marry. The concept of not dating and waiting until you are ready to marry to court a girl has often led young men to see every young lady they like as a potential mate, thus a subject for courting."
from abcog.com

Can you not see that its meant to lead to marriage? And the right way of going about it is to talk to the parents is it not.


And one final point. Thinking on all the knowledge i have of courtship, the guy askes the father if he can court the girl with the intention of seeing whether they are suitable for each other. The family, particually father is involved, and being asking her to marry him he must ask the father. Have you asked her father yet, for tho there may not be an engagement yet, you've said there will be one.

 

[JefflovesHolly]

Yeah, I can't see why your going off on the guy. He comes into these forums happy and praising the Lord for his obviously blessed relationship, and puts a post which in the jist of it is saying that his girlfriend and him are both active Christians and they are both very open about it and want it to be a major factor of the relationship (i.e. if God calls them to do other things away from the relationship then that is sooo much more important then the small relationship between the two of them). In my eyes this is showing me that they are and will continue to put God FIRST in their lives not their boyfriend/girlfriend. Your posts make it sound like we shouldn't trust nor even think about being in a relationship until you are ready to marry. Also don't even think about praying with a girlfriend/boyfriend that should be kept between a married couple, what is with that?!?!? The only thing I think that praying would do would be to stregthen both of their relationships with God. According to you praying for blessings on food that should be kept between family (i.e. wife/husband, relatives) also why go to Church they pray as a group there and they aren't married to you? According to you fellowship means nothing; your relationship is between God and you only, NO WHERE ELSE.
I also believe that being a Christain is founded on a strong personal relationship with God but fellowship is also VITAL.

Also whats with the attack on his calling his relationship with his gf "courting"?? So he is not thinking about marriage in the immediate future, in the future years from now he is. And the longer they know each other, the better they will be able to decide if marraige is the best option in the future.




Quote from you
"Read the book Boy meets Girl by Joshua Harris... Very good point in it. Its partly goes along the lines of its unfair on the girl to date before you can realistically (soon) be looking at marriage..."

Ohhhhh come on how sexist is that basically you are saying:

Don't date until you can marry, if you date before that then you are just hurting the girl, it couldn't possibly be hurting the guy who is just a big ball of unfeeling hory hormones.

I mean what kind of nonsense is "don't even think about being in love until you are able to be married", so my future wife comes along say when I am 16, there is no way I should even be getting to know her (part of courting) until I am 18 years old. Is that what your saying?

I met my girlfriend at the age of 10 (yes 10), and we've been together for 5 years now (right, we weren't boyfriend and girlfriend right away but we did become that eventually).

And commenting on what Leanna put
"I would simply advise not spending TOO MUCH time together because there is no purpose in investing too much in the relationship at this point, but to wait until you are closer to marrying age"

In my point of view you idea is partially correct in that you shouldn't make your entire life revolve around taht person but still put a large amount of trust in them. Because if we cannot trust the ones we love and that have proven themselves to be trustworthy then what kind of a hell-hole of a world do we live in???

Since he first posted this topic ,AndrewD88, has only got advised to stay away from this potential "hazard" of a relationship, well I am proudly saying to him that it sounds like he has very strong relationship with God and his girlfriend (But as I stated before God is always #1 by far)and that is sounds as if your relationship may last but if it doesn't then God's Will has other plans for the both of you. The best of luck and All Glory to God either way.

This guy seems very respectful to his gf, very loving, very open about his relationship with his Savior, in short he seems to be extremly chivalrious (Little fact Chivalry is where courtly love or "courting" came from, basic fact without chivalry there is no courting). His chivalrious behavior is in sharp contrast to the majority of guys who just want to use girls and get into their pants. Ever since the begining you people have been critizing his relationship and basically dooming it for the most part.

You may be doing it out of hopes that he won't be hurt but all it sounds like to the younger people is that most of the 20 year olds know everything about exactly waht we are doing or going through, no questions asked. Basically it sounds as if a majority (not all I stress) are siting on your tall throne of 5-10 more years then us and preaching pearls of wisdom to the confused, hormone controlled teenagers who can't control themselves or make good descions on their own, ever.

Just some thoughts, since everyone seemed to be against him and in your last post you were very critizing and debative, then I thought he could use some help against the waves of "we know better then you"-isms. We know you have been through a lot of what we've been through and want to help but do it an advisive way not an all-knowing way.

Thanks for your time, God Bless all.

All Glory to God.

 

[JefflovesHolly]

One last thing I thought I might mention

your quote
"Have you asked her father yet, for tho there may not be an engagement yet, you've said there will be one."

Whats with that, so if I meet a girl that I like and might say in 4-6 marry then I should immediatly go to her dad ask if can eventually engaged then marry his daughter??

Thats funny I can't think of a faster way then too make a gf's father nervous and dislikeful of you! I think they would call it getting to invovled to fast!

 

[Inperfected]

You may be doing it out of hopes that he won't be hurt but all it sounds like to the younger people is that most of the 20 year olds know everything about exactly waht we are doing or going through, no questions asked

Yes. I'm sorry. That's exactly why i was doing it... At 16 i went out with a guy and did quite the same thing, and it's got so messed around. A few days before i was 17 i did the same, it lead to an engagement, the most painful experience of my life. I don't know everything, that's definately true, but from an "older than that" persective i see the mistakes your age can make... why? coz i made them and paid for them myself.

I can't say what to do, but i do agree with leanna. Praying before getting married, or at least engaged is a thing to do with MUCH cautiousness... However it wasn't meant in the group, or short meal prayer sense. Most likely meant in the sense of don't have intimate prayer times/one on one type ones. Leanna probly speaks from experience on this as i do, i have done this before, and it creates real soul ties with the person, too intense for a dating/courting relationship.

I mean what kind of nonsense is "don't even think about being in love until you are able to be married", so my future wife comes along say when I am 16, there is no way I should even be getting to know her (part of courting) until I am 18 years old. Is that what your saying?

HOld up. I never said that... I said (or at least was trying to say) it's better to hold off on the idea of marriage (their idea of getting engaged around a specific time) til then. Get to know her by all means, spend time with her, be her best friend, but there is also something called friendship that is SOOO good for this.

And the longer they know each other, the better they will be able to decide if marraige is the best option in the future.

The key word here is decide. Maybe he will be able to, but from all my personal and friends experience he won't be able to decide in years to come, as emotions will have clouded it soo much.

And the don't date til you can marry, here is the boy/girl arguement... The guy wrote the book, the girls are often the ones to imagine there futures (having minds that often work via fantasy). Not a thing against guys, just put it that way coz it was written that way..



Finally. We are probly seeming to be sitting on thrones... we are only trying to care... I would be interested to see if in 5 years if they are still together... for i know of only 1 that has made it

Thanks

 

[KristianJ]

MOD NOTE

I'd encourage everyone not to argue over each other's opinions and if you do disagree and wish to say so, do so in a manner of respect and gentleness. People speak from their own personal experiences - sure they might not be repeated in another relationship, but in a way they're saying that they've experienced something that the OP could potentially encounter in his relationship.

........

Now to speak in my capacity as a normal posting member ...I think it's not a case of using one's age as a basis for enforcing a superior maturity - it's saying "Hey, I went through something similar when I was your age - I'll mention it just in case you encounter it. I did X and Y was the outcome; it's possible that it could be the same in your scenario." Of course, theres every chance that you won't have it happen and that's fine. But would you rather be open to all the possibilities, or pick and choose a couple that sound like positive outcomes, only to have an unexpected one happen and you be totally unprepared for it?

Experiences do their bit in shaping our thoughts and views on different issues, and Andrew, the ball is in your court as to what you do with the advice that you're given. And may God's will be indeed made known to you - when it comes to an advisor, He is the one who should be listened to every time.

 

[AndrewD88]

Wow, everyone is going crazy in here. And this all started out with a simple piece of advice that I found helpful in my courtship.

I guess to both parties, I should say that I appreciate your advice and constructive critism, and let me assure you that, yes, I did say that engagement during college was a plan if we are still together by Gods Will. We are seeking his will through prayer, and to Leanna, if we do not pray as a couple at any stage up until we are engaged, how could we ever ask God if engagement was His will in the first place? I just can't agree with you there although I can partially understand where you are coming from.

Secondly, as 16 year olds, we possess something that many older courting couples do not, we have an accountability. We do not spend ANY time alone, at all. We never have and we won't until MUCH, MUCH later on. And who might our accountability be? None other than her parents, whom you mentioned in your explanations. They have been guiding us through our relationship very well and have kept their eyes on us, making sure that we hold our boundaries. At first it was kind of weird, but now, we CHOOSE to set boundaries.

I suppose that the opinion will differ coming from every different person, but what I would consider for you to remember is that God has different plans for all of us. If myself and my girl friend are to continue worshipping God in the most clear and concise manner, then why should we stop praying? If it is building up on our relationship, then why should we stray away? Simply put, relationships have come out in all different ways. I know a couple who knew each other from second grade, started courting in 8th grader, and made it all the way through college and to marriage. At the same time, I do know of couples who court, and then break up. God works in mysterious ways and we can't always account for why God choose to break us up, for if we feel like we fullfilled our purpose then there is no reason to assume that God didn't wan't us to be together for something.

Anyway, no arguments here, I have gained alot of good advice from both sides, I will continue to put God 1st in everything that I do as well as what we do in our relationship. Thanks, and I will keep you all updated!

 

[Maeyken]

I think Leanna's point about praying together is that it can create a type of intimacy that is best reserved for marriage. I think it depends on the type of prayer (definitely mealtime prayers are ok, and I'd say praying for another person's prayer request is ok), but praying together about your own intimate relationship with God, and praying about your relationship with each other is best done individually until marriage, or engagement at least. I know everyone has their own opinions about this, and we're probably not going to agree, but I share Leanna's point of view on this. I think it is more important for both people in a relationship to receive individual conformation from God, rather than combined confirmation, because I think emotions are less likely to influence the confirmation that way. Also, people hear God in different ways so they may be more likely to clearly hear what God has said to them if they listen individually. But, that is just my opinion

 

[KristianJ]

Secondly, as 16 year olds, we possess something that many older courting couples do not, we have an accountability. We do not spend ANY time alone, at all. We never have and we won't until MUCH, MUCH later on. And who might our accountability be? None other than her parents, whom you mentioned in your explanations. They have been guiding us through our relationship very well and have kept their eyes on us, making sure that we hold our boundaries. At first it was kind of weird, but now, we CHOOSE to set boundaries.

Which is a good thing. Every single couple out there has some form of accountability - I have it in the form of my g/f and I's parents, friends at church who I have trusted to share things that we have struggled with in the months that we've courted and who have offered advice and prayer support, and of course God. Older couples on the whole would not assume that they need not be held accountable to anyone simply because they're old enough to manage things on their own IMHO

 

[keyz]

We have asked, that if it is Gods will, to break us up. To tear us apart. We call this "leaving the door open" for God to come in and give us directions, through prayer, and so far God has shown us everything other than a break up. Though I know that the future holds so much, I am confident God is working so well with us because we have chosen to lay our relationship completely in his hands. That's all I wanted to say, maybe some of you other courting couples could consider a similar prayer? Let me know what you think or PM me, it has been really amazing!

I'd say if you are asking that God's will be done, you are already leaving the door open. It sounds like you want his will to be done yet you tell him how he can accomplish it. His will might be for you two to grow, learn, and share a season of life together, but might not result in marriage. And the end of courtship doesn't necessarily mean there needs to be a 'tearing apart'. God's will can be so much and you may have not the slightest clue.

All I'm saying is becareful where your heart is. If you are asking God's will to be done you don't need to tell him how to do it and on what terms. If the relationship is truly 'in his hands', that means you don't have a say in what he does. Let him be God. Part of trusting God's will to be done is let him make the rules. We can't expect God's will to be done when we have our own agenda to follow. Maybe you knew all of what I just typed but I thought I'd throw something out.

I'm still a youngin' too, and I'm quite clueless about a lot. I'm still learning though.

 

[AndrewD88]

Thanks for that advice, that's a good point. You all have given alot of good advice and Elizabeth and I do have the relationship in God's hands, rest assured. I will keep you updated!

 

[Scotty_Aussie87]

I don't know if i'll get in trouble for writing this but your 16! i'm sure you are probably onto to something good here but wouldn't u have less complications at this age if u were just single? Anyway I hope u can continue to seek wisdom in your descision by relying on God's guidance.

Have a good one, Sean