Does the Father have faith in the Son ?
I know that wasn't in the OP. I'm asking you that question.Your original question was not about that. To return to your actual topic Jesus in his human nature had faith in God is my view.
I don't want to repeat my old arguments. Suffice to say - in other Christian circles there is the belief that Jesus was not born with a sin nature, perfectly followed the leading of the Holy Spirit, and recognized his position as the Son of God. We saw the works that Jesus did on earth were repeated by his disciples in Matthew, Mark, Luke, John and Acts. Although the works Jesus did were important for showing that he had the Father's approval - he did them in the same manner as his followers - in his humanity following the direction of the Holy Spirit. Although prior to Pentecost, the disciples did not have the Holy Spirit, Jesus did, and he sent them.You are correct that the NT is unambiguous about who Jesus Christ is. When Paul or Barnabas did miracles it wasn't to draw attention to themselves as miracle-workers, they decried any worship directed to themselves. When Jesus did miracles it was specifically because God was pointing out who Jesus was - the Incarnate Son of God (Acts 2:22)
After the miracle of Jesus walking on the waters, when he got into the boat, the disciples worshipped him and said "Truly you are the Son of God" (Matthew 14:22-33) - Jesus was doing what was ascribed to Yahweh in Job 9:8 the one who tramples on the waves. He was doing it as one Person - Christ in both his divine and human natures if I am understanding it correctly. Peter getting out of the boat to come to the Lord, doubted and began to sink, his request was perhaps more an indication of his impetuousness than his faith.
I don't want to repeat my old arguments. Suffice to say - in other Christian circles there is the belief that Jesus was not born with a sin nature, perfectly followed the leading of the Holy Spirit, and recognized his position as the Son of God. We saw the works that Jesus did on earth were repeated by his disciples in Matthew, Mark, Luke, John and Acts. Although the works Jesus did were important for showing that he had the Father's approval - he did them in the same manner as his followers - in his humanity following the direction of the Holy Spirit.
Peter started walking on the water, but got his eyes on the water and started to sink. After Jesus rescued him, he corrected him by asking why he doubted.What about Jesus walking on the waters?
Peter started walking on the water, but got his eyes on the water and started to sink. After Jesus rescued him, he corrected him by asking why he doubted.
In Mark 11:23-24, Jesus tells his disciples they can use faith to move mountains into the sea. If that is the case. what are the limits?
Congratulations, you have proved my point. Wow you dropped "pious-sounding psuedo spirituality".
John Mullally said: ↑
I did not realize Christians are to reason from selective summations made in the dark ages over the unambiguous writings of the New Testament.
Over Simplify. Why thank you. I am a fan of Occam's razor.Your over simplification made many major mistakes, and that was the reason why I answered as I did.
Christian circles are schools of thought.Wasn't what I was asking, but nevermind.
I don't know what you mean by "other christian circles" - which christian circles are you talking about?
Christian circles are schools of thought.
First of all everything should be tested against scripture. In answer to your question, I say it is somewhat common in the newer denominations (Charismatics, Pentecostals, WoF, maybe even Calvary Chapel). Not the older mainline churches, which from my experience are more influenced by tradition and frameworks - but make your own observations.Some are "schools of thought" no doubt.
Which 'school of thought' then were you refering to?
Peter started walking on the water, but got his eyes on the water and started to sink. After Jesus rescued him, he corrected him by asking why he doubted.
In Mark 11:23-24, Jesus tells his disciples they can use faith to move mountains into the sea. If that is the case. what are the limits?
I apologise I have lost the gist of what you are contending for in the discussion, is it that Jesus had faith, or something else?
I am saying that Jesus Christ is One Divine Person, the Son of God with two natures, human and divine, and that in his identification with us in our humanity knew what it was to trust God, he experienced the limitations of being a man and the need to trust and depend on His Father. The One Person acts and does what is proper to each nature. He only manifested his Divine attributes at the direction of His Father.
First of all everything should be tested against scripture. In answer to your question, I say it is in the newer denominations (Pentecostals, WoF, maybe even Calvary Chapel). Not the older mainline churches, which from my experience are more influenced by tradition than scripture - but make your own observations.
Did you ever notice in scripture that Jesus constantly referred to himself as the "Son of Man"? Ever notice the instances in the Epistles where he spoken as being the second Adam.
2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
That was a reply to your question on "Walking on water".I apologise I have lost the gist of what you are contending for in the discussion, is it that Jesus had faith, or something else?
He only manifested his Divine attributes at the direction of His Father.
Is Jesus a Divine Person with a human nature ?
or is Jesus a human person with a divine nature ?
There is a huge difference between the two above questions.
That was a reply to your question on "Walking on water".
What divine attributes did he manifest on earth pre-resurrection that were not available to him walking in his humanity under the guidance of the Holy Spirit?
If he did everything in his humanity - it helps me with understanding how he can be our sin substitute, how he is identified as the "Second Adam" and the "Son of Man". Why he says the works I do, you shall do.
Then how do you explain John 14:12?I think he was manifesting divine attributes when he walked on the waves of the sea. But I don't think Jesus wants us to turn water into wine, or go walking on the waves. For me the explanation of Jesus Christ being one divine person acting as proper to each nature, that is as proper to his human nature and his divine nature makes sense.
Over Simplify. Why thank you. I am a fan of Occam's razor.
I am prepared to converse from the Bible, but not the Ecumenical Councils - you might as well obfuscate using the Apocrypha.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?