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My source tells me to do it like this...and I trust Him more than anyone!
After this manner[SIZE=+0] therefore[/SIZE][SIZE=+0] pray[/SIZE][SIZE=+0] ye[/SIZE][SIZE=+0]: Our[/SIZE][SIZE=+0] Father[/SIZE][SIZE=+0] which[/SIZE][SIZE=+0] art in[/SIZE][SIZE=+0] heaven[/SIZE][SIZE=+0], Hallowed be[/SIZE][SIZE=+0] thy[/SIZE][SIZE=+0] name[/SIZE][SIZE=+0]. [/SIZE]
My source tells me to do it like this...and I trust Him more than anyone![/COL]
After this manner[SIZE=+0] therefore[/SIZE][SIZE=+0] pray[/SIZZE=+0] ye[/SIZE][SIZE=+0]: Our[/SIZE][SIZE=+0] Father[/SIZE][SIZE=+0] which[/SIZE=+0] art in[/SIZE][SIZE=+0] heaven[/SIZE][SIZE=+0], Hallowed be[/SIZE][SIZE=+]
You mean Nazis like Herr Matthew?That's a good one. Just don't say it more than once or else the vain repetition Nazis will get after you
In response to that, - yes, we are still members of the Body of Christ after we die.In response to..
"I only ask living Christians to pray for me because the dead are not omniscient or can't hear our prayers or the Bible forbids it."
It is the Holy Spirit that allows the Saints in heaven to hear us... because He united us all as the Body of Christ.. people do not leave the Church once they die.
In response to that, - yes, we are still members of the Body of Christ after we die.
However, death is death and the Bible does forbid contacting the dead.
And, there are no examples in the Bible anywhere of people praying to the dead or being told to pray to the dead.
And lastly, I believe that God exists because, not only does the Bible tell me so and other believers tell me so, but because I personally experience Him. He lives in me and I know Him intimately. He contacts me.
I have had no experience of or contact from dead people.
Nor would I accept any contact from dead people for they have not been risen incorruptable yet..
I posted a paraphrase of this on another forum once. What does everyone think? This should solve the problem, no?
In discussions with those who do not believe in asking saints in heaven to pray for us, I have often encountered the "I only ask living Christians to pray for me because the dead are not omniscient or can't hear our prayers or the Bible forbids it." They really do not deny that those in heaven are righteous or that their prayers are very powerful. They also realize that by Scripture's example, it is good to ask others to pray for us (e.g. Rm 15:30)
What about a prayer to God like this: "God, please ask (person in heaven) to pray with me for the following intention...."
Would someone who used the red above find this prayer to solve the dilemma?? (Assuming you knew the person was in heaven.)
FYI, I have no problem praying directly to a saint for his/her intercession, and I even believe Scripture encourages it.
I don't see that they do intercede on my behalf. For that is what Christ does. He forever lives to intercede for us. On difference though. He has His incorruptable body and is seated at the right hand side of God. I don't need to ask Mary or John anything for I can go right to the throne room of My God anytime I want and HE hears my prayers..what about God answering their prayers as they intercede on your behalf? (that's not them contacting you)
For example...you ask Mary to pray for you about something...and God answers that prayer. Because that is basically the idea I'm talking about here.
They may not be risen incorruptible but they are alive - their souls are alive in heaven.. they are also sinless.
What do you do with this scripture?I posted a paraphrase of this on another forum once. What does everyone think? This should solve the problem, no?
In discussions with those who do not believe in asking saints in heaven to pray for us, I have often encountered the "I only ask living Christians to pray for me because the dead are not omniscient or can't hear our prayers or the Bible forbids it." They really do not deny that those in heaven are righteous or that their prayers are very powerful. They also realize that by Scripture's example, it is good to ask others to pray for us
What about a prayer to God like this: "God, please ask (person in heaven) to pray with me for the following intention...."
Would someone who used the red above find this prayer to solve the dilemma?? (Assuming you knew the person was in heaven.)
FYI, I have no problem praying directly to a saint for his/her intercession, and I even believe Scripture encourages it.
Does not this indicate that Jesus is the only one that can talk to God for us? Or this scripture:For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all menthe testimony given in its proper time (1 Tim 2:5-6 NIV)
If I can approach the throne of grace with confidence then why do I need saints in heaven to pray for me?Let us then approach the throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need. (Heb 4:16 N IV)
God does not answer prayers based on who asks but on the basis if they are in line with His will.This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us. And if we know that he hears uswhatever we askwe know that we have what we asked of him. (1 John 5:14-15 NIV)
I don't see that they do intercede on my behalf. For that is what Christ does. He forever lives to intercede for us. On difference though. He has His incorruptable body and is seated at the right hand side of God. I don't need to ask Mary or John anything for I can go right to the throne room of My God anytime I want and HE hears my prayers..
What do you do with this scripture?
Does not this indicate that Jesus is the only one that can talk to God for us? Or this scripture:
If I can approach the throne of grace with confidence then why do I need saints in heaven to pray for me?
God does not answer prayers based on who asks but on the basis if they are in line with His will.
Do you think that the saints can hear multiple prayers at the same time? If you and 1000 other people ask God for Mary to pray for you, do you think that Mary can hear God ask her 1000 times at the same time? Mary is not omnicient and is a finite being.
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