Sola Scripturists guide on the authority of the Bible

Ortho_Cat · Apr 11, 2011

Heavens said:
(2Pe 3:16) As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
(2Pe 3:17) Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

Can't be any clearer than that can it

sounds like a warning against sola scriptura to me

Meepy · Apr 11, 2011

ortho_cat said:
sounds like a warning against sola scriptura to me

If one was truly following sola scriptura, they would reject sola scripture i.e. 2 thess 2:15

sunlover1 · Apr 11, 2011

ortho_cat said:
sounds like a warning against sola scriptura to me

Or a warning for the unlearned and unstable?
Or do we think God is warning against getting truth from HIS Word? lol

Ortho_Cat · Apr 11, 2011

sunlover1 said:
Or a warning for the unlearned and unstable?
Or do we think God is warning against getting truth from HIS Word? lol

No, but if we don't understand something from scripture, we should look to those more learned than us for help.

sunlover1 · Apr 11, 2011

ortho_cat said:
No, but if we don't understand something from scripture, we should look to those more learned than us for help.

Exactly, .. if we're unlearned and unstable.

Ortho_Cat · Apr 11, 2011

Which I have been accused of being on more than one occassion...

LittleLambofJesus · Apr 11, 2011

ortho_cat said:
No, but if we don't understand something from scripture, we should look to those more learned than us for help.

Do ya think you will find them in Kansas

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWyCCJ6B2WE

sunlover1 · Apr 11, 2011

ortho_cat said:
Which I have been accused of being on more than one occassion...

Dude, I never said that!
Not the unlearned part anyhow

Seriously though, it's just what the text says..
and it's true! That's why we have some of the
dumbest conversations in GT lol.
(Not you and I of course,.. i mean "the other guy"
you know the one )

sunlover1 · Apr 11, 2011

Meepy said:
If one was truly following sola scriptura, they would reject sola scripture i.e. 2 thess 2:15

15Therefore, brethren, stand fast,
and hold the traditions which ye have been taught,
whether by word, or our epistle.

If you've been taught orally by them, more power to ya guy.
I have to hold fast to the traditions they taught by epistle
and anything recorded in Scripture.

Ortho_Cat · Apr 11, 2011

sunlover1 said:
Dude, I never said that!
Not the unlearned part anyhow
Seriously though, it's just what the text says..
and it's true! That's why we have some of the
dumbest conversations in GT lol.
(Not you and I of course,.. i mean "the other guy"
you know the one )

lol naw I wasn't accusing you of that, just saying that I have been accused of being that...

Ortho_Cat · Apr 11, 2011

sunlover1 said:
If you've been taught orally by them, more power to ya guy.
I have to hold fast to the traditions they taught by epistle
and anything recorded in Scripture.

But what if we do have access to that which was taught by 'word', via apostolic tradition?

sunlover1 · Apr 11, 2011

ortho_cat said:
But what if we do have access to that which was taught by 'word', via apostolic tradition?

I think you believe that is what you have.
I think many sects believe that is what they have.

It's not what I believe at all, nor can i see any
logic in it , fruit in it, or even the hand of God in it.

(that's just my own honest opinion, taken from
my own private interpretation of God's Words, as
Scritpure; but by now, you KNOW that's how i roll)
Bible or bust lol.

sunlover1 · Apr 11, 2011

ortho_cat said:
lol naw I wasn't accusing you of that, just saying that I have been accused of being that...

I know you werent lol.
But I can believe you've been accused of it,
there are all kinds of interesting members here
praise God
I too have been called some lovely things. One
does develop a thick skin.
B blessed sir.

Ortho_Cat · Apr 11, 2011

sunlover1 said:
I think you believe that is what you have.
I think many sects believe that is what they have.

It's not what I believe at all, nor can i see any
logic in it , fruit in it, or even the hand of God in it.

(that's just my own honest opinion, taken from
my own private interpretation of God's Words, as
Scritpure; but by now, you KNOW that's how i roll)
Bible or bust lol.

Well, I wouldn't say that is what 'many' sects believe, as not many sects have apostolic succession of bishops, therefore those who claim to have apostolic tradition without the former are automatically disqualified from possessing apostolic tradition (oral).

I think that the logic and hand of God in the process can be shown from scripture, as it was God's plan at one time to transfer apostolic teaching by mouth and by writings, which scripture attests to. I just don't see any proof in the bible that we are not to continue traditions that have been handed down to us by the apostles, however.

As always, thanks for being honest, I wouldn't expect anything less from you, sis.

I like your slogan btw, kinda catchy

razeontherock · Apr 11, 2011

ortho_cat said:
Well, I wouldn't say that is what 'many' sects believe, as not many sects have apostolic succession of bishops, therefore those who claim to have apostolic tradition without the former are automatically disqualified from possessing apostolic tradition (oral).

I think this bit here puts a magnifiying glass on the mistrust between the groups at large. In order for your statement here to be true, said oral traditions must remain a secret. Otherwise others might be able to learn it, and then they too would have AT.

I hope you can see that in this way, your usage of Bishops can be seen as Lording power and authority over others? That it can be seen as an exclusionary tactic? That doesn't promote trust.

Thekla · Apr 11, 2011

No, it is not "secret", although it is interesting that many early writers would not record the creeds in full (or at all). These were learned by heart for baptism. But as I have explained before it also includes things that are experienced - such as the Liturgy, the mindset, the disposition, the bodily motions and "attitudes". The sign of the cross, the blessings, these were (again, as described by Basil the Great) part of the interior life of the Church. What is written - the Scriptures - are the kerygma/what is announced to the world.

As a parallel, in every household there are the things that are done, the ithos and ethos of the household, the experience of being in the household etc. And what is commonly known about the household - what is announced. To better understand what is announced or known about the household, one must also know something of the 'interior' life of the household. (People can draw wrong conclusions about a household based on what they "see", the exteriors. Within the household, matters may be different from the exterior perception.)

Heavens · Apr 11, 2011

The last thing I would do if I didn't understand a scripture, would be to go to some man.
I always go to Jesus. He always reveals His Word to me. Never does He hide meaning.
That is how He works with His own
Never does He lead us astray, but reveals all things by His Spirit, opening the meaning of His Word up to me.
Only those who don't do this, would dare suggest going to a wicked and corruptible man for answers.

razeontherock · Apr 11, 2011

Thekla, thanks for always trying to bridge the gaps in our understanding!

Ortho_Cat · Apr 11, 2011

Heavens said:
The last thing I would do if I didn't understand a scripture, would be to go to some man.
I always go to Jesus. He always reveals His Word to me. Never does He hide meaning.
That is how He works with His own
Never does He lead us astray, but reveals all things by His Spirit, opening the meaning of His Word up to me.
Only those who don't do this, would dare suggest going to a wicked and corruptible man for answers.

So the church has no role of authority or instruction?

Standing Up · Apr 11, 2011

ortho_cat said:
Well, I wouldn't say that is what 'many' sects believe, as not many sects have apostolic succession of bishops, therefore those who claim to have apostolic tradition without the former are automatically disqualified from possessing apostolic tradition (oral).

Did we ever finish that conversation on AS or let it go? IIRC, we had a conflict with RC and EO's definition/practice.

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