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Sola Scripture

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HoT-MetaL

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This seems to be controversial...

If Sola Scripture means the only source of authority should be scripture, then I completly disagree with it.

If Sola Scripture means that if its not in the bible, then it's ungodly, I completly AGREE with it.

God gave us a book for a reason. I always say the cure for HIV is not in a test tube, but in a book... Id say that was true.

What do you guys think about it?

God Bless, metal.
 

Apollonarius

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Hi Everybody,

But how do you know what Scripture says? How can you understand what everything means?

It is commonly claimed that Scripture is self-interpreting, but if it were, why do so many well-meaning and honest Protestant denominations disagree on the interpretations of so many key verses?

i am a Catholic convert from non-denominational Protestantism and this was actually one of the key issues. i'm happy this thread came up!

Arise, O sleeper, and the Light of Christ will shine on you! Maranatha!

In His Light,
Apollonarius
 
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Mustaphile

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I think an examination of the history of the book is very revealing. As I have studied how the Bible came to be and then examined the various doctrines and denominations, my conclusion has been that there is an absence of authoritative interpretation (-edit- an absence of agreement would be a better phrase -end edit-). Lacking that authoritative interpretation, I contemplated whether it was scriptural to interpret the Bible, being an authority unto myself. I came to the conclusion that I lacked the necessary knowledge and training to be that authority. This led me to making a personal judgement on who I would turn to now. I've made that decision for myself and I am moving towards coming under that authority.

In serving God, we should seek to find who God has placed in authority on earth with regards to christian teachings. You can approach the problem two ways. You can seek who has the best authority using your God given powers of discernment, or you can seek to come under an authority that may not be complete (perhaps even deficient) and take a part in developing a desire for truth within that structure.

I tend to look at the whole body of christianity as an organic and dynamic process of searching for the truth of God. Each has a role to play, but I don't think we are necessarily called to stay in one place in our spiritual walk. The adherents to Sola Scriptura have a role to play in the Body of Christ, personally I feel compelled to seek a view of christianity that encompasses reason as well as faith. Many adherents to Sola Scriptura, although not all, when presented with issues in which reason and doctrine clash, will throw reason out the window in favour of doctrine. My conscience, which I believe to be guided by the Spirit, leads me to feel grevious harm is being done through this doctrine. That's my personal choice, and one I feel confident I can answer for in heaven on the judgement day. As long as I seek Christ in all things my salvation is assured.
 
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visionary

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Mustaphile said:
I think an examination of the history of the book is very revealing. As I have studied how the Bible came to be and then examined the various doctrines and denominations, my conclusion has been that there is an absence of authoritative interpretation (-edit- an absence of agreement would be a better phrase -end edit-). Lacking that authoritative interpretation, I contemplated whether it was scriptural to interpret the Bible, being an authority unto myself. I came to the conclusion that I lacked the necessary knowledge and training to be that authority. This led me to making a personal judgement on who I would turn to now. I've made that decision for myself and I am moving towards coming under that authority.

In serving God, we should seek to find who God has placed in authority on earth with regards to christian teachings. You can approach the problem two ways. You can seek who has the best authority using your God given powers of discernment, or you can seek to come under an authority that may not be complete (perhaps even deficient) and take a part in developing a desire for truth within that structure.

I tend to look at the whole body of christianity as an organic and dynamic process of searching for the truth of God. Each has a role to play, but I don't think we are necessarily called to stay in one place in our spiritual walk. The adherents to Sola Scriptura have a role to play in the Body of Christ, personally I feel compelled to seek a view of christianity that encompasses reason as well as faith. Many adherents to Sola Scriptura, although not all, when presented with issues in which reason and doctrine clash, will throw reason out the window in favour of doctrine. My conscience, which I believe to be guided by the Spirit, leads me to feel grevious harm is being done through this doctrine. That's my personal choice, and one I feel confident I can answer for in heaven on the judgement day. As long as I seek Christ in all things my salvation is assured.

I especially like the whole body of christianity as an organic dynamic process. With the Lord's leading, the truth will be given by the Holy Spirit, but it is a fact that our minds can not comprehend the pure concept, even directly from God. We will interpret dreams and see visions with our understanding. It is like three people witness an accident and all three give different discriptions of the event. Take a look at the four apostles and their version of the events of Jesus upon the earth. If we had more who wrote down what they saw and understood, we would have that many more versions to sift through, and we would definitely have to pray for the Lord to have His Spirit move upon our hearts so that we may understand it all.
 
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Christy4Christ

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Bluemoon said:
What if the church that interprets the Bible is wrong? Do you pray that the church will be right? Or should you pray that God will give you the understanding of the Bible directly?



Which Came First?


THIS CLASSIC RIDDLE ("which came first: the chicken or the egg?") is very much to the point here. In point of time, it should be apparent that the Church long precedes the Bible as an integral collection of books, and considerably precedes even the individual books of the New Testament. Thus, it is quite certain that the Church founded by Our Lord was not "based on the Bible." The Church created by the Holy Spirit on Pentecost had no Bible as we know it... and didn't have to have it to be truly the Church. It can be said with some justification that if every single copy of the Bible in existence were destroyed, the effect upon the Church would be minimal (although the context in which such an event could occur might not be!).

But the converse is not true. If there were no Church [but we are assured this will never come to pass... "the gates of hell shall not prevail against it" (Matt 16:18)], the Bible would not be sufficient to provide what is needed for our salvation. if we doubt the truth of this, we need only cast our glance over the spectacle of what happens when people attempt to create their own "churches" based upon their own, private interpretations of the Holy Scriptures


:D
 
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Bluemoon

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Thank you Christy, that was a great response to my question, I have to do more research, but Jesus followed what was in the Bible and aren't we suppose to be like Jesus?

If the Church is the answer, then how do you know if you're at the right church? What about the end times when Revelation talks about the one world religion?
the Bible would not be sufficient to provide what is needed for our salvation

Jesus is the only way to salvation.
 
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Christy4Christ

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Bluemoon said:
Thank you Christy, that was a great response to my question, I have to do more research, but Jesus followed what was in the Bible and aren't we suppose to be like Jesus?

If the Church is the answer, then how do you know if you're at the right church? What about the end times when Revelation talks about the one world religion?


Jesus is the only way to salvation.


Why? What church do you think this is speaking of?
 
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Oblio

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What if the church that interprets the Bible is wrong? Do you pray that the church will be right? Or should you pray that God will give you the understanding of the Bible directly?

Don't have to pray this. The Bible tells us that the Church is right and that it always will be. It also tells us that man cannot be trusted and that he is not infallible. There is however, no such idictments against the Church.
 
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Disciple 3

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Bluemoon said:
Just a generalization because there are many churches out there? I've been too many and after time I see the teachings start to change. So again how would we know what is the right church, if the church is the answer?


At least we have a set and solid doctrine. At Vatican II the Church IMPROVED a lot. Before this we were saying there was no salvation outside the church. Since the 1960's we have improved on our doctrine on ecuminsm. We now encourage the fellowship of our brother's and sister's in Christ. We our now allowed to attend a Protestant church. But we are to be careful of what they teach. Not to say that what the protestant church teaches is wrong, only that some go against the Church.

To answer you're question, read the Bible carefully. In Acts and the epistles you see an Orthodox (Catholic) view forming in the books. For one, we know from Paul that women are not to teach in Church (1 Corinthians 14:34). Then in Romans we see that Paul commends Sister Phoebe on her works in the church (Romans 16:1-2). Many take Romans 16:1-2 to mean that women can teach, but that would go against the bible. So if women cannot teach or speak in church and Paul commends Phoebe for her works within the Church and helping the elders what could she be? Sister Pheose perfectly fits the perameters of a nun.

We are the one true church because we are the Church started by Peter himself, who in turn was given power from Jesus to "bind and loose". I have nothing against the Protestant church but a few doctrines are misleading. For one, Sola Scriptura. Paul was a stark advocate for doctrines. Take for instance Titus 2:7 for one. In this verse Paul states that you should show yourself in a good pattern, including doctrine. The Bible is not doctrine it is the word, the Bible, scripture. Doctrine is the teachings on the word. To tell Titus, a student of Paul, show good doctrines, he must have a strong view on teachings. The theory of Sola Scriptura is never found in the bible. Also sola fide is not real and contradicts the bible. Martin Luther had a bone of contention with the works doctrine he felt there were none involved in salvation. The church teaches directly against the notion of Sola Fide, Martin Luther said they were wrong. The Catholic church has a set doctrine they teach. On the other hand protestant denominations (over 1000 of them) have thens of thousands of different doctrines. How can Catholicism not be the original and one true church when they never contradict each other?

2 Corinthians 11:3 "Now I exhort you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all say the same thing, and that there be not among you divisions; but that ye be perfectly united in the same mind and in the same opinion. For it has been shewn to me concerning you, my brethren, by those of [the house of] Chloe, that there are strifes among you. But I speak of this, that each of you says, *I* am of Paul, and *I* of Apollos, and *I* of Cephas, and *I* of Christ. Is the Christ divided? has Paul been crucified for you? or have ye been baptised unto the name of Paul? I thank God that I have baptised none of you, unless Crispus and Gaius, that no one may say that I have baptised unto my own name. Yes, I baptised also the house of Stephanas; for the rest I know not if I have baptised any other. For Christ has not sent me to baptise, but to preach glad tidings; not in wisdom of word, that the cross of the Christ may not be made vain."

The most Catholics say is I live in this parish or I go to that church. Protestants are Lutheran, Baptist, presbyterian etc. etc. The protestant church is so divisive they are not in unity. The Catholic church is not.
 
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Bluemoon

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Oblio said:
Don't have to pray this. The Bible tells us that the Church is right and that it always will be. It also tells us that man cannot be trusted and that he is not infallible. There is however, no such idictments against the Church.

Isn't the church run by man? What Church are you talking about when you say the Church is right and will always be? What scripture says that?

I'm not attacking you, I really want to know, I'm lacking in the knowledge of the Bible, I'm always learning.
 
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Oblio

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Isn't the church run by man? What Church are you talking about when you say the Church is right and will always be? What scripture says that?

The Church is run by the Holy Spirit.

Disciple 3 gave the Scripture that says she will always be right.

These things write I unto thee, hoping to come unto thee shortly: But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
(1 Timothy 3:14-15)
 
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Veritas

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hotmetal said:
This seems to be controversial...

If Sola Scripture means the only source of authority should be scripture, then I completly disagree with it.

If Sola Scripture means that if its not in the bible, then it's ungodly, I completly AGREE with it.

God gave us a book for a reason. I always say the cure for HIV is not in a test tube, but in a book... Id say that was true.

What do you guys think about it?

God Bless, metal.
God didn't give us a book, He gave us a Church. Nowhere did Christ write anything down (unless you count scribbling in the dirt), nor did He tell anyone else to write anything down. Only one of the NT books claims to be written as the result of God's instruction (Apocalypse of John). You'd think that if Jesus wanted us to have an instruction manual of faith and morals, He would have written it Himself...He was on earth afterall. The scripture's may be the inerrant, inspired Word of God, but they themselves do not claim to be the sole and final rule of faith.
 
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Philip

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hotmetal said:
If Sola Scripture means the only source of authority should be scripture, then I completly disagree with it.

If Sola Scripture means that if its not in the bible, then it's ungodly, I completly AGREE with it.

Sola Scriptura is not in the Bible. According to your post, this would make it ungodly. Was this your intent?
 
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