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Sodomites!!!!

davedjy

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Sodomite = inhabitor of Sodom, that's it!

Any other word usage here, is a culture interpretation and nothing more! it does not refer to anal sexual relations, this is some made up word choice here. It derives from the city of Sodom, where the only thing sexually practiced and condemned in Scripture is raping of the visitors, raping of the angelic hosts that came to the City (strange flesh=heteros, another flesh), unwelcoming behavior, and repeated economic crimes. Sodom and Gomorrah were not destroyed for homosexual activity, but it was for repeated economic crimes. (See Ezekiel 16:48-50)

Now, about this time the Sodomites, overweeningly proud of their numbers and the extent of their wealth, showed themselves insolent to men and impious to the divinity, insomuch that they no more remembered the benefits that they had received from him, hated foreigners and avoided any contact with others. Indignant at this conduct, God accordingly resolved to chastise them for their arrogance, and not only to uproot their city, but to blast their land so completely that it should yield neither plant nor fruit whatsoever from that time forward. ”

— Jewish Antiquities 1:194-195

nd the angels came to the city of the Sodomites...when the Sodomites beheld the young men, who were outstanding in beauty of appearance and who had been received into Lots’s house, they set about to do violence and outrage to their youthful beauty....Therefore, God, indignant at their bold acts, struck them with blindness, so that they were unable to find the entrance into the house, and condemned the Sodomites to destruction of the whole population. ”

— Jewish Antiquities 1:199-202



Let’s first look at the historic context of Sodom and Gamorrah. The story goes that God sends two angels to Sodom, where Abraham’s nephew, Lot, persuades them to stay in his home. Genesis 19 records that “all of the people from every quarter” surrounded Lot’s house demanding the release of the visitors so “we might know them” or in other words have sexual relations with them. Horrified by this gross violation of ancient hospitality rules, Lot refuses to give them over to the angry crowd. Lot flees Sodom with his family and the city it is destroyed by fire from heaven. Literalist and conservatives have contended that Sodom was destroyed because of homosexuality. However, there are at least three reasons why this story is not about homosexuality or its condemnation.

First, the city of Sodom was slated for destruction long before this homosexual incident. Ezekial 16:48-50 states it clearly, “As I live, says the Lord GOD, your sister Sodom and her daughters have not done as you and your daughters have done. Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy.”

Second, all of Sodom’s people participated in the assault on Lot’s house, and in no culture has more than a small minority of the population been homosexual.

And finally, and most importantly, no other passages in the Bible that refer to the destruction of Sodom ever raise the issue of homosexuality. If indeed the story of Sodom and Gamorrah is about sexual morality, then Lot’s gesture to allow his daughters to be raped by the crowd instead of the visitors should put into question its modern moral value.
 

BigChrisfilm

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Sodomite = inhabitor of Sodom, that's it!

Any other word usage here, is a culture interpretation and nothing more! it does not refer to anal sexual relations, this is some made up word choice here. It derives from the city of Sodom, where the only thing sexually practiced and condemned in Scripture is raping of the visitors, raping of the angelic hosts that came to the City (strange flesh=heteros, another flesh), unwelcoming behavior, and repeated economic crimes. Sodom and Gomorrah were not destroyed for homosexual activity, but it was for repeated economic crimes. (See Ezekiel 16:48-50)

Now, about this time the Sodomites, overweeningly proud of their numbers and the extent of their wealth, showed themselves insolent to men and impious to the divinity, insomuch that they no more remembered the benefits that they had received from him, hated foreigners and avoided any contact with others. Indignant at this conduct, God accordingly resolved to chastise them for their arrogance, and not only to uproot their city, but to blast their land so completely that it should yield neither plant nor fruit whatsoever from that time forward. ”

— Jewish Antiquities 1:194-195

nd the angels came to the city of the Sodomites...when the Sodomites beheld the young men, who were outstanding in beauty of appearance and who had been received into Lots’s house, they set about to do violence and outrage to their youthful beauty....Therefore, God, indignant at their bold acts, struck them with blindness, so that they were unable to find the entrance into the house, and condemned the Sodomites to destruction of the whole population. ”

— Jewish Antiquities 1:199-202



Let’s first look at the historic context of Sodom and Gamorrah. The story goes that God sends two angels to Sodom, where Abraham’s nephew, Lot, persuades them to stay in his home. Genesis 19 records that “all of the people from every quarter” surrounded Lot’s house demanding the release of the visitors so “we might know them” or in other words have sexual relations with them. Horrified by this gross violation of ancient hospitality rules, Lot refuses to give them over to the angry crowd. Lot flees Sodom with his family and the city it is destroyed by fire from heaven. Literalist and conservatives have contended that Sodom was destroyed because of homosexuality. However, there are at least three reasons why this story is not about homosexuality or its condemnation.

First, the city of Sodom was slated for destruction long before this homosexual incident. Ezekial 16:48-50 states it clearly, “As I live, says the Lord GOD, your sister Sodom and her daughters have not done as you and your daughters have done. Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy.”

Second, all of Sodom’s people participated in the assault on Lot’s house, and in no culture has more than a small minority of the population been homosexual.

And finally, and most importantly, no other passages in the Bible that refer to the destruction of Sodom ever raise the issue of homosexuality. If indeed the story of Sodom and Gamorrah is about sexual morality, then Lot’s gesture to allow his daughters to be raped by the crowd instead of the visitors should put into question its modern moral value.
1 Corinthians 6:9-109 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders
10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
 
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davedjy

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1 Corinthians 6:9-109 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders
10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
Stop quoting biased translations of Scripture, and that isn't what is being addressed here.
 
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Orchids

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If they were supposedly not homosexuals, then why did they try to rape the angels? There is still more there, but surface examinations are not going to complete it. I say it has everything to do with the 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 quote. What was condemned in the OT was also condemned in the NT.
 
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Gusoceros

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Sodomites
http://www.christiananswers.net/dictionary/sodomites.html

those who imitated the licentious wickedness of Sodom (Deut. 23:17; 1 Kings 14:24; 15:12; Rom. 1:26, 27). Asa destroyed them "out of the land" (1 Kings 15:12), as did also his son Jehoshaphat (22:46; 23:7)

Author: Matthew G. Easton.
The sin of sodomy, or homosexuality, was considered normal behavior in the pagan nations of Canaan which the Lord had commanded the Israelites to destroy. To God, however, it was one of the most grievous of their "abominations." ...[In Genesis 18:20 we see that] the iniquity of the Amorites was not yet full (Genesis 15:16), but these cities of the plain [Sodom and Gomorrah] had reached God's limit, especially in view of their reversion to gross wickedness after the marvelous deliverance God gave them through Abraham and after seeing and hearing the testimony of Melchizedek, and even the witness of Lot... The enormity of Sodom's wickedness is indicated by the eagerness with which not a few degenerates, but all the men (Gen. 19:4) of the city desired to commit the crime of homosexual rape, probably leading to murder, on two unknown visitors to their city. Lot's desire to protect them demonstrates his basically godly character (2 Peter 2:8) even though his carnality had led him into this compromising association.

Solomon had allowed it and other immoral practices to reenter the land as a result of his marrying wives from these nations. (Dr. Henry M. Morris, The Defender's Bible)

Jude 1:7 explains that "even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire" (KJV).


"The inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah became obsessed with sexual promiscuity, worst of all 'going after strange flesh'--that is, blatant indulgence in the unnatural crime of homosexuality, including homosexual rape of visiting strangers (Genesis 19:4-9). The phrase 'in like manner,' indicates that the sin of the [fallen] angels was in the same category as that of the Sodomites. ...The cities were destroyed by fire (Genesis 19:28), but its wicked inhabitants will continue to exist in everlasting fire (Matthew 25:41)." (Dr. Henry M. Morris, The Defender's Bible)
 
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davedjy

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If they were supposedly not homosexuals, then why did they try to rape the angels? There is still more there, but surface examinations are not going to complete it. I say it has everything to do with the 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 quote. What was condemned in the OT was also condemned in the NT.
Were they destroyed for homosexuality or for what it says in Ephesians? it makes it very clear that they were raping the Angelic visitors, which ARE indeed strange flesh...(another type of flesh).

Do men have the same flesh as other men? that isn't strange (heteros) flesh, it's the same flesh.
 
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davedjy

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Sodomites
http://www.christiananswers.net/dictionary/sodomites.html

those who imitated the licentious wickedness of Sodom (Deut. 23:17; 1 Kings 14:24; 15:12; Rom. 1:26, 27). Asa destroyed them "out of the land" (1 Kings 15:12), as did also his son Jehoshaphat (22:46; 23:7)

Author: Matthew G. Easton.
The sin of sodomy, or homosexuality, was considered normal behavior in the pagan nations of Canaan which the Lord had commanded the Israelites to destroy. To God, however, it was one of the most grievous of their "abominations." ...[In Genesis 18:20 we see that] the iniquity of the Amorites was not yet full (Genesis 15:16), but these cities of the plain [Sodom and Gomorrah] had reached God's limit, especially in view of their reversion to gross wickedness after the marvelous deliverance God gave them through Abraham and after seeing and hearing the testimony of Melchizedek, and even the witness of Lot... The enormity of Sodom's wickedness is indicated by the eagerness with which not a few degenerates, but all the men (Gen. 19:4) of the city desired to commit the crime of homosexual rape, probably leading to murder, on two unknown visitors to their city. Lot's desire to protect them demonstrates his basically godly character (2 Peter 2:8) even though his carnality had led him into this compromising association.

Solomon had allowed it and other immoral practices to reenter the land as a result of his marrying wives from these nations. (Dr. Henry M. Morris, The Defender's Bible)

Jude 1:7 explains that "even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire" (KJV).


"The inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah became obsessed with sexual promiscuity, worst of all 'going after strange flesh'--that is, blatant indulgence in the unnatural crime of homosexuality, including homosexual rape of visiting strangers (Genesis 19:4-9). The phrase 'in like manner,' indicates that the sin of the [fallen] angels was in the same category as that of the Sodomites. ...The cities were destroyed by fire (Genesis 19:28), but its wicked inhabitants will continue to exist in everlasting fire (Matthew 25:41)." (Dr. Henry M. Morris, The Defender's Bible)
immoral practices? Ephesians makes it quite clear WHY they were destroyed. It wasn't for loving, monogamous sex acts, it was for raping of the strange flesh, Angelic beings that came to town.

You want to cite this as an example of a loving, monogamous same sex relationship and pretend your sources are valid with this?
 
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Gusoceros

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immoral practices? Ephesians makes it quite clear WHY they were destroyed. It wasn't for loving, monogamous sex acts, it was for raping of the strange flesh, Angelic beings that came to town.

You want to cite this as an example of a loving, monogamous same sex relationship and pretend your sources are valid with this?

Yes- Immoral practices- same sex acts. Monogomous same sex acts are irrelevant- it is still a monogamous same sex sinful act.

Strange means the other of a set, with regard to sets. The context makes it clear, he is discussing the homosexual act.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/words.pl?book=Jud&chapter=1&verse=7&strongs=2087&page=

G
 
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davedjy

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Yes- Immoral practices- same sex acts. Monogomous same sex acts are irrelevant- it is still a monogamous same sex sinful act.

Strange means the other of a set, with regard to sets. The context makes it clear, he is discussing the homosexual act.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/words.pl?book=Jud&chapter=1&verse=7&strongs=2087&page=

G
That isn't what is addressed in Scripture. It is RAPING sex acts of the angelic hosts, let's keep this on topic here...Sodom and Gomorrah was about promiscuity, prostitution, rape, etc. NOT what you claim about the act itself, that is preposterous.
 
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fragmentsofdreams

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If they were supposedly not homosexuals, then why did they try to rape the angels? There is still more there, but surface examinations are not going to complete it. I say it has everything to do with the 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 quote. What was condemned in the OT was also condemned in the NT.

They arrived at Lot's door for much the same reason that today groups will go around looking for people of different races, religions, or national origins to beat up. Some people feel big by beating up and humiliating those weaker than they are.
 
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Gusoceros

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That isn't what is addressed in Scripture. It is RAPING sex acts of the angelic hosts, let's keep this on topic here...Sodom and Gomorrah was about promiscuity, prostitution, rape, etc. NOT what you claim about the act itself, that is preposterous.

We were discussing Jude 1:7

The fact that they raped angels does not mean that they were not also homosexuals- in fact, it would seem to make sense- and be consistent with all the references to same sex acts being an abomination.

G
 
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davedjy

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We were discussing Jude 1:7

The fact that they raped angels does not mean that they were not also homosexuals- in fact, it would seem to make sense- and be consistent with all the references to same sex acts being an abomination.

G
Not at all...this isn't the same...this is talking about raping of angelic beings (another type of flesh, since they are not from earth). It isn't an example of what we are talking about here.
 
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Gusoceros

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Not at all...this isn't the same...this is talking about raping of angelic beings (another type of flesh, since they are not from earth). It isn't an example of what we are talking about here.

Strange is the word heteros in the greek- you can find it here:
http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/words.pl?book=Jud&chapter=1&verse=7&strongs=2087&page=

You will note that it means the 1) the other, another, other

a) to number

1) to number as opposed to some former person or thing

2) the other of two


b) to quality

1) another: i.e. one not of the same nature, form, class, kind, different

G
 
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BigChrisfilm

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All of them are, you have to go into the original Hebrew and Greek language.
So, are you saying the translaters of the KJV didn't do that, when we all know how Godly, and intelligent they were?
 
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davedjy

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So, are you saying the translaters of the KJV didn't do that, when we all know how Godly, and intelligent they were?
The translations ARE NOT Godly, they are interpretations! the original transcripts were not written in English, do I need to tell you more, or do you get what I am saying?
 
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BigChrisfilm

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The translations ARE NOT Godly, they are interpretations! the original transcripts were not written in English, do I need to tell you more, or do you get what I am saying?
Yes, I get what you are saying. It's easy to believe in scripture that you can't read, because you can claim it said anything you want.
 
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davedjy

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Yes, I get what you are saying. It's easy to believe in scripture that you can't read, because you can claim it said anything you want.
No, that isn't what I'm saying...if Scripture was so concise, why do you think there are so many different denominations (even 28 gay accepting/condoning churches)?
 
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BigChrisfilm

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No, that isn't what I'm saying...if Scripture was so concise, why do you think there are so many different denominations (even 28 gay accepting/condoning churches)?
Many reasons, but the one I would like to focus on is because man doesn't want to accept God's opinion on anything. Man has a tendency to want to do what man wants to do, so hence, we have denominations based on traditions, and twisted up scripture. Basically sin, it's the reason for the season.
 
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