So what's the US doing?

public hermit · Jun 8, 2022

RDKirk said:
Or we could figure out where the sense of responsibility went and try to get it back. The problem of the loss of the sense of responsibility is not limited in its effects to mass shootings.

Won't that take a generation or two? Can we afford more lives until then?

Rachel20 · Jun 8, 2022

MMXX said:
Those countries have much smaller populations.

And they're not melting pots like the US, which I think does have to be considered as a factor in the cohesiveness of a society.

RDKirk · Jun 8, 2022

renniks said:
On a Christian forum you would think someone would recognize that this is a spiritual attack on young men. What did we do in the past to motivate young men to be good men, not dispicable cowards willing to kill children and die instead of say, getting a job and being a productive citizen?

I've talked about that. Was it this thread or another? I'll repeat myself:

When I was a kid, the main point of discussion any adult had with a kid was: "What are you going to be when you grow up?" I got that constantly. If a random adult on the street spoke to me at all, it was to ask, "What are you going to be when you grow up?"

That question makes two points: A. We expect you to grow up and be something. B. The choice is yours to make...we expect you to make it.

Eighteen years old, particularly a young man's life, is a point of extreme emotional stress in the US. It's the point that someone who has been treated as a child, given no expectations all his life is suddenly treated as an adult.

We can get more into the myriad details, but 18 is a psychological live-or-die point for many young men if they hadn't already been tracked into a lifetime goal by careful parental and social management of expectations and capabilities.

But 18 is a point of zero stability for--I'd say now--the majority of young men. It's a smack on the head with a two-by-four.

Remember most young men in the US are not headed for college and have not been trained for anything else, nor have they been guided into a path toward any particular useful life.

ozso · Jun 8, 2022

Rachel20 said:
And they're not melting pots like the US, which I think does have to be considered as a factor in the cohesiveness of a society.

Yes definitely that too.

Rachel20 · Jun 8, 2022

Only 1 shot was fired in the deadliest mass school killing in the US history, and it wasn't fired at a person:

May 18, 1927 Bath, Michigan School treasurer Andrew Kehoe, after killing his wife and destroying his house and farm, blew up the Bath Consolidated School by detonating dynamite in the basement of the school, killing 38 people, mostly children. He then pulled up to the school in his Ford car, then blew the car up, killing himself and four others. Only one shot was fired in order to detonate dynamite in the car. This was deadliest act of mass murder at a school in the United States.

From: History of School Shootings in the United States | K12 Academics

RDKirk · Jun 8, 2022

public hermit said:
Won't that take a generation or two? Can we afford more lives until then?

You're not going to get rid of 400,000,000 guns that people still want in less than a generation or two.

public hermit · Jun 8, 2022

RDKirk said:
You're not going to get rid of 400,000,000 guns that people still want in less than a generation or two.

Right, so take them away.

durangodawood · Jun 8, 2022

Maybe what Im missing is that guns have rights. Not that people have a right to own guns, but that the guns themselves have rights. They are talismanic objects, obviously. But perhaps they are even more than that?

Rachel20 · Jun 8, 2022

public hermit said:
Right, so take them away.

Have you considered the number of children killed through democide by their own governments, after disarming their populations?

pdudgeon · Jun 8, 2022

Hammster said:
20,000. One more?

20k band aids.
A change of heart must preceded a changed action.

public hermit · Jun 8, 2022

Rachel20 said:
Have you considered the number of children killed through democide by their own governments, after disarming their populations?

I guess. Look, we're not a responsible citizenry; we're incapable of having guns and not killing each other for stupid reasons. It's not a one off; it's endemic. Regulate it responsibly, or take them away.

Rachel20 · Jun 8, 2022

public hermit said:
I guess. Look, we're not a responsible citizenry; we're incapable of having guns and not killing each other for stupid reasons. It's not a one off; it's endemic. Regulate it responsibly, or take them away.

I'm personally tired of the decent, responsible people always being punished and having their rights taken away because of the few bad apples. It also disparately impacts women, who stand a far less chance of protecting themselves otherwise.

The bad apples will always have guns - they don't care about laws. So all you do is disarm the good ones who do.

public hermit · Jun 8, 2022

Rachel20 said:
I'm personally tired of the decent, responsible people always being punished and having their rights taken away because of the few bad apples. It also disparately impacts women, who stand a far less chance of protecting themselves otherwise.

The bad apples will always have guns - they don't care about laws. So all you do is disarm the good ones who do.

Oh well. We're not a collection of individuals; we're a country. We have allowed this culture of death to flourish; we have to take responsibility. We don't get to to act like the common good is not in our individual interest. Either we do something to quell this violence, or we reap the consequences, but it's not somebody else's problem; it's all of us.

Desk trauma · Jun 8, 2022

Rachel20 said:
Only 1 shot was fired in the deadliest mass school killing in the US history, and it wasn't fired at a person:

May 18, 1927 Bath, Michigan School treasurer Andrew Kehoe, after killing his wife and destroying his house and farm, blew up the Bath Consolidated School by detonating dynamite in the basement of the school, killing 38 people, mostly children. He then pulled up to the school in his Ford car, then blew the car up, killing himself and four others. Only one shot was fired in order to detonate dynamite in the car. This was deadliest act of mass murder at a school in the United States.

From: History of School Shootings in the United States | K12 Academics

And we continue to have to explosives stores in every town, give dynamite to any just turned 18 year old off street, make sure people can walk around with cases of the stuff in all public places…

Rachel20 · Jun 8, 2022

public hermit said:
Oh well. We're not a collection of individuals; we're a country. We have allowed this culture of death to flourish; we have to take responsibility. We don't get to to act like the common good is not in our individual interest. Either we do something to quell this violence, or we reap the consequences, but it's not somebody else's problem; it's all of us.

Then get to the root of the problem and fix that, because they'll just find other means, like the Bath slaughter in 1927

Desk trauma · Jun 8, 2022

public hermit said:
Either we do something to quell this violence, or we reap the consequences, but it's not somebody else's problem; it's all of us.

It’s gonna be option B and it’s deluded to think otherwise. No amount of chanting “this time is different” will make it so.

I am prepared to, but have no expectation of, eating those words should I be wrong.

Rachel20 · Jun 8, 2022

Desk trauma said:
And we continue to have to explosives stores in every town, give dynamite to any just turned 18 year old off street, make sure people can walk around with cases of the stuff in all public places…

wow!! I didn't know that

Desk trauma · Jun 8, 2022

Rachel20 said:
wow!! I didn't know that

Also the teachers need to be given their own dynamite because the only thing that can stop a bad bomber is a good bomber.

Rachel20 · Jun 8, 2022

Desk trauma said:
Also the teachers need to be given their own dynamite because the only thing that can stop a bad bomber is a good bomber.

Which brings up another point - the mass shootings that are stopped by persons who were legally carrying, those never get msm coverage. But the smart ones just need to ask themselves how the Uvalde incident was stopped.

public hermit · Jun 8, 2022

Rachel20 said:
Then get to the root of the problem and fix that, because they'll just find other means, like the Bath slaughter in 1927

How many children have to die before we recognize we cannot own guns responsibly? The evidence is clear- our gun loving culture is out of control. I own guns and use them responsibly, but I don't love them more than the lives that are sacrificed for this so-called freedom. It would be great if we could change the mentality, and immaturity, of our culture. I'm all for it. But when children are a danger to themselves, we protect them. Since we act like a bunch of children with our guns, we either need regulations across the board or just take them away.

So what's the US doing?

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